Why did Shroud p2 change?

[mediocresurgeon]

I started running the Shroud right at the tail end of Mod 6 (I recently completed my 60th run on my main about a week back) but I have some questions about the sudden shift in strategy which occurred at the release of Mod 9.

The "old" strategy (for those who are unfamiliar or have forgotten about it) is to keep the 4 named monster separated from the very beginning of this fight. In most situations, you have 1 DPS and 1 healer fight the Outsider (Devil, Orthon, or Cat) in the "west cubby," put the 2 humanoids (gnoll, troll, orc, kobold, trog) into the southeast corner with 3 blockers and a Wall of Fire, and put the elemental in the Northeast corner with either (a) a self-healing caster or (b) evasion DPS and a healer. Each of the 3 teams preps their monster to ~10% hp, then kills them all within ~5 seconds of each other. The caster who cast Wall of Fire on the southeast corner (also referred to as "The Wall") is usually waiting at the crystal, since they are not required to actually be near the monsters that are cooking.

The "new" strategy is to pull all 4 monsters into the south central area (near the "buffing rock"), and, as a group, DPS all monsters down to 0% health. Once the monsters no longer have a health bar, the people holding aggro on these monsters split apart from the main group and deal a few more additional points of damage to each monster, killing them. A caster waits at the crystal.

Here is my question: Why did the strategy shift from splitting before killing to killing as a group, then splitting?

Out of the last 10 Shrouds I have been in, the "new" strategy has been used and not a single Shroud has had a perfect (meaning no "repull") p2. Something always seems to happen--one person gets the aggro from more than 1 creature, making the syncronized killing virtually impossible, or the clerics run out of mana because the fire elemental is nuking the entire group, the Gnoll plants a blade barrier (which people promptly start running through) while he proceeds to start spamming Dispel magic on the group, or the monsters show up at different times and someone kills a monster prematurely, etc. These problems rarely occur when the monsters are split up beforehand, yet this new way remains the most widely accepted and practiced method of completing p2 of the Shroud. What is the advantage of mass-pulling that I am failing to see?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Here is my question: Why did the strategy shift from splitting before killing to killing as a group, then splitting? It's WAY faster this way and easier to coordinate take down

Out of the last 10 Shrouds I have been in, the "new" strategy has been used and not a single Shroud has had a perfect (meaning no "repull") p2. you have been in bad groups?

Welcome back to the game.

[valorik]

how it's been done for a LONG time on ghallanda, maybe some things were picked up on the mod 9 beta server?

[cdemeritt]

Well, tactics change... I have never seen either set of tactics you mention implemented... on Thelanis, the general shroud run has been to pull the Elei to the southeast, and the rest to the SW... Beat down and pull off... one at a time... slowest first... caster on crystal... most runs 100% smooth... on occasion the orc gets stuck on his way to the party, and causes a snaffu, but not often.

My guess the change in tactics has more to do with aggro, DPS, and just general trying something different.

[SEMPER]

well id say this shift didnt happen with the release of mod 9 at least for me I was doing it before that with the groups i run with normally and as long as people listen to whats going on there usually isnt a problem and if there is oh well just do it again , its not like the old way worked 100% of the time as well and its just faster imho and to me after the 200th , 300th run in shroud i want to get it done as fast and as efficiently as possible so i can run another one or another raid i have alot of alts and i like to get things done

as a side note whomever has the agro of the fire ele should know to or be told to , turn the agro away from the rest of the party so he only hits the melee hitting him

[Quikster]

does it really matter which method is used? The method the leader feels most comfortable with leading is usually a good one. Re-pulls will happen whenever people dont understand agro mechanics, or dont listen, it doesnt really matter which method you use.

[RigorAdar]

Alot of new people are starting to run Shrouds now and the pary leaders dont know peoples capabilities yet. Its easier to keep an eye on things when they arei n a central location, and takes less time to explain and show people what to do. You only need to rely on the caster to find his way to the crystal, everyone else is at the center and not lost somewhere in the maze.

[mediocresurgeon]

Alot of new people are starting to run Shrouds now and the pary leaders dont know peoples capabilities yet. Its easier to keep an eye on things when they arei n a central location, and takes less time to explain and show people what to do. You only need to rely on the caster to find his way to the crystal, everyone else is at the center and not lost somewhere in the maze.

This makes sense. Thank you for the constructive response.

[pumagirl418]

the beat them to a bloody pulp, then split them is a way to cut down on time. or so i have been told. I have yet to see it successfully done. thelenis is all but ele goes to sw, beat them to a bloody pulp (separate if kobold pops) slowest to fastest, but ele dies last most of the time.

[HeavenlyCloud]

That strategy you are referring is the one that was used by most speed shroud groups with a few differences.

[moops]

Ive been killing them together in all the shrouds I lead for over a year--many pugs were reluctant about it at first but since it is so much faster eventually almost all pugs seem to do it like that on Sarlona. I started to do this in preperation for Speed Runs--first splitting 3-1 and then all 4 together.

After my 1000th Shroud I don't want to sit there for 10 mins while people argue about who can take the Devil or the ORthon and then of course people need all new songs and buffs again because we stood there so long.

This method is also very friendly to single healer groups, which is also why I prefer it.

The pugs that I jump in that have to re pull generally have new people in them--and a leader who does not explain the mechanics to them--We always put specific people on bosses and tell everyone else not to melee more than one boss if they have uber DPS ( and most people think that they do)--and no AOE.

I also found that there were a ton of redos with the old wall method as well and of course people asking for more buffs and songs. . ...

A good group can kill all the trash and the 4 bosses at the same time with all their part 1 buffs and songs

[dasein18]

I like to pull all the mobs.. not give any directions and play Benny Hill music. This is the most fun to be had in the game.

[rest]

I like to pull all the mobs.. not give any directions and play Benny Hill music. This is the most fun to be had in the game.

lol. yakkity sax ftw!

+reps

[teapotdome]

I like to pull all the mobs.. not give any directions and play Benny Hill music. This is the most fun to be had in the game.

yakkety sax ftw(hopefully) . i like it.

[Arlith]

I started running the Shroud right at the tail end of Mod 6 (I recently completed my 60th run on my main about a week back) but I have some questions about the sudden shift in strategy which occurred at the release of Mod 9.

Mass HJeal

[Phidius]

Alot of new people are starting to run Shrouds now and the pary leaders dont know peoples capabilities yet. Its easier to keep an eye on things when they arei n a central location, and takes less time to explain and show people what to do. You only need to rely on the caster to find his way to the crystal, everyone else is at the center and not lost somewhere in the maze.

This - I've been on so many PUG Shrouds where I found myself holding one of the 4 in a holding pattern, trying to deduce what the heck was going on with the wall that I embraced the "all to the south" method with enthusiasm.

It's easier to verbally abuse people when you know what foolishness they are pulling... for me, anyway.

[captain1z]

I think one of the majors reasons for the change in tactics was an increase in player DPS.

Many players running shroud already have at least one greensteel item/weapon and are just getting ingredients for another item for themselves or an alt. So it became easy to just keep them all together, strong arm them, then separate.

In a low DPS group isolating them before the kill, with players that have the ability to take em is a better option than exposing a weaker player/character to something he cant handle. Its just more healing for the cleric and added unneccessary chaos.

[Humperdink]

Here's what happened:

The vet and power players started pulling all to the south to make runs faster. Most did so successfully after running shroud for a year. Then Mod 9 hit with a giant influx of new players. Vets still ran it this way with new players, sometimes without explaining how to do it and expecting these new players to just get it. This tactic involves working together somewhat and most new players just think attack and kill boss because that's what they do in other quests and it wasn't explained to them. So 3 bad guys are pulled to the south while the fourth lingers due to the way they move or their agro patterns. Players start attacking and kill one before the fourth arrives.

How to solve? If you're leading a PUG shroud, take two minutes to type out instructions for a better chance of success.

[RATRACE931]

I started running the Shroud right at the tail end of Mod 6 (I recently completed my 60th run on my main about a week back) but I have some questions about the sudden shift in strategy which occurred at the release of Mod 9.

The "old" strategy (for those who are unfamiliar or have forgotten about it) is to keep the 4 named monster separated from the very beginning of this fight. In most situations, you have 1 DPS and 1 healer fight the Outsider (Devil, Orthon, or Cat) in the "west cubby," put the 2 humanoids (gnoll, troll, orc, kobold, trog) into the southeast corner with 3 blockers and a Wall of Fire, and put the elemental in the Northeast corner with either (a) a self-healing caster or (b) evasion DPS and a healer. Each of the 3 teams preps their monster to ~10% hp, then kills them all within ~5 seconds of each other. The caster who cast Wall of Fire on the southeast corner (also referred to as "The Wall") is usually waiting at the crystal, since they are not required to actually be near the monsters that are cooking.

The "new" strategy is to pull all 4 monsters into the south central area (near the "buffing rock"), and, as a group, DPS all monsters down to 0% health. Once the monsters no longer have a health bar, the people holding aggro on these monsters split apart from the main group and deal a few more additional points of damage to each monster, killing them. A caster waits at the crystal.

Here is my question: Why did the strategy shift from splitting before killing to killing as a group, then splitting?

Out of the last 10 Shrouds I have been in, the "new" strategy has been used and not a single Shroud has had a perfect (meaning no "repull") p2. Something always seems to happen--one person gets the aggro from more than 1 creature, making the syncronized killing virtually impossible, or the clerics run out of mana because the fire elemental is nuking the entire group, the Gnoll plants a blade barrier (which people promptly start running through) while he proceeds to start spamming Dispel magic on the group, or the monsters show up at different times and someone kills a monster prematurely, etc. These problems rarely occur when the monsters are split up beforehand, yet this new way remains the most widely accepted and practiced method of completing p2 of the Shroud. What is the advantage of mass-pulling that I am failing to see?

You know Hydro having been in 2 guild parties where u asked that question I and in light of many other of such "Re-askers or Re-doers" on the frums i may commit you to a mental health clinic to check your memory.


To answer your question though the reason we do it is that it's a little faster and less confussing unless everyone knows exactly what to do and when to do it then... all methods are roughly same damnn time.