Why the constant tinkering, Devs?

[TheJusticar]

Devs,

I have to wonder why all the tinkering with game mechanics and dynamics since the release of Mod9. The game was mostly ok as it was with some glaring issues (that, btw, have NOT been addressed at all) and a dire lack of content. So, ok, good or bad you've added more content with each update, cool there. You've added "re-spec" options, cool there as well. Now, why are you trying to make this game easier? Color coding enemy fire, "casual" setting, changing the duration of CC spells for no real reason, changing the nature of spells for no real reason, adding mechanics that will probably cause certain end-game raid to be very hard to put a group together, etc. That's what I don't get. This constant tinkering causes more confusion than anything else. You are gearing this game to the "casuals" (I mean the writing is on the wall, right?) but you are forgetting that you also have a large player base that play this game for hours/day and have done so for years. A "causual" player won't be following the forums and looking out for changes in the release notes so in a way it kind of defeats the purpose.

Please stop the tinkering.

Godspeed.

[calvinklien]

--

[Beherit_Baphomar]

It's a whole new game now. Tinkering is necessary. I don't like it, in fact I prolly hate it more than you do. But I understand it. The people the game now caters to is not the two thousand that have played for four years but the ten thousand that joined because it's free.

As for the boots of anchoring, I'm 100% positive this was changed to make people run the Amrath content. It won't work, imo. What they shouldve done was change the terrible rings that drop in TOD.

And yeah, as you said we've had problems for YEARs that are not being addressed. My favorite being pots vs. rage and, although I don't have a monk, greenweave handwraps. Two examples of utter fail from the Devs.

Oh but the vets get Epic……cool.

[Borror0]

Now, why are you trying to make this game easier?

Appealing to a larger playerbase is a good way to increase profits and that it what they have been doing.

This constant tinkering causes more confusion than anything else.

I'm confused too. Before I read this line, I thought you felt Turbine were "dumbing the game down" but, now, I realize I must have been wrong. Clearly, if you can't understand or keep up with what has been going on for the last few months, the games needs further "dumbing down" to help you keep up easily.

[Ghoste]

Appealing to a larger playerbase is a good way to increase profits and that it what they have been doing.

The common term for that is "appealing to the lowest common denominator". WoW has made an art form of it. Looks like Turbine can no longer resist the temptation.

[Horrorscope]

Why do they do this? Because they are trying to make more money. DDO is different enough from the rest that new blood can get easily intimidated. If one doesn't always look at the negative, you can see they are trying to help everyone, low-middle-high. They have more difficulty options for everyone. Why do I care if I can't run Epic and you can? Why do I care if I can run Elite and someone else can only run casual? I don't, it's a PvE game, we aren't competing against one another, we are trying to have a game accessible to most anyone and they can find their gameplay level and enjoy questing. This game will not make it, if it's only for the best of the best.

Really does this need to be explained? There will be tinkering and imo this game has many many areas it can tinker with. I think most of the ideas they have make sense, even the CC one's. There are issues with this games CC on many levels, perhaps what they are doing isn't the best. But lets see and if it flops hugley the can change it. But there has to have been many hours going over this designing. They see such a broader picture of all players then what any of us can figure out.

I get pretty much everything they've been doing. IMO I get the feeling we are in DDO's golden age.

Many people that can't play the game on it's highest end, will most likely not come here to get their voice heard, for various reasons. However Turbine knows in general the percentages of these players and my guess is it's significant to the point they need to figure how cater to them, but they are also tryign to throw the vets bones to.

[Borror0]

The common term for that is "appealing to the lowest common denominator".

Does not apply, here. Turbine has four difficulty settings which means it wants to appeal to several types of players.

[Ghoste]

Does not apply, here. Turbine has four difficulty settings which means it wants to appeal to several types of players.

That would be true if the only tinkering they've done were to add more difficulty settings. When they tinker in a way that dumbs things down for ALL difficulty settings, then it is another matter.

[Borror0]

When they tinker in a way that dumbs things down for ALL difficulty settings, then it is another matter.

Of course. Though, they have not done that so that is not applicable either.

[Ghoste]

Of course. Though, they have not done that so that is not applicable either.

Lol, you don't think so, huh? Ok, have a nice day.

[Rheebus]

Seems to me that there's little bit for everyone. I play a lot, and I've been playing since the 2006 launch. I never run out of fun things to do. The game is what the player makes of it. Lil' Mo says, "Blame the game, not the player." I tend to have the opposite opinion.

[TheJusticar]

Of course. Though, they have not done that so that is not applicable either.

All game mechanics changes in this update affect all difficulty levels, so you don't have an argument anymore.

[Cedwin]

Obviously they have some sort of feedback going on with new players.

Basically we were having major issues with brand new players to the game mistaking that quests that didn't have a "solo" box on them couldn't be played alone.

If quite a few players are leaving and all report that they find a certain aspect of the game too difficult, or annoying, of course Turbine is going to tinker with it.

[Dirac]

All game mechanics changes in this update affect all difficulty levels, so you don't have an argument anymore.

Honestly, when I first read the release notes, I was thinking, "Gosh, I can't imagine anything here would be controversial. It all looks good." Some people have raised some serious concerns about the player's ability to cc with the changes. Worth watching, but it still seems to me fine.

What exactly has changed to make all difficulty levels easier in this update? Is this just the knockdown issue? I think that is a great change, and a long time coming.

However, I agree with your overall sentiment. I don't see the tinkering with game mechanics as a good way to spend time. I would rather see more content, but the changes they have made (with the exception of the abomination, Dungeon Alert) seem to make the game better.

[Borror0]

All game mechanics changes in this update affect all difficulty levels, so you don't have an argument anymore.

Interesting claim. List all the changes you have an issue with and explain to me how they "dumbs things down for ALL difficulty settings".

[Pfamily]

The common term for that is "appealing to the lowest common denominator". WoW has made an art form of it. Looks like Turbine can no longer resist the temptation.

*ding
Winner

[Cyr]

Appealing to a larger playerbase is a good way to increase profits and that it what they have been doing.

Not really what they are doing Borro and it is not honest to claim it is. Unless your belief is that the majority of players found quarter/dd the right difficulty, epic the right difficulty, love grinding for boot ingredients so much that they want to do it on their casters now too, enjoyed DA, and are such incredibly noobs that even with dungeon scaling they still just can't do a dungeon on normal. I'm pretty cynical, but even I don't think that a majority of the player base is power gamers who love epic or noobs who can't tie their shoes without an instructional video.

[Gol]

Interesting claim. List all the changes you have an issue with and explain to me how they "dumbs things down for ALL difficulty settings".

Here's a bunch.

This new effect provides a brief period of immunity from crowd control once you escape. When a target is crowd controlled, a counter will increment for each second that they cannot act. Once the counter reaches the critical point (i.e. you've been made helpless too long) the crowd controlling effect will be dispelled. This allows players the opportunity to break free and defend themselves before the next onslaught rather than being completely helpless while monsters spam them with effects repeatedly. During a heroic surge, you are protected from being crowd controlled. The duration of the heroic surge is random. Once the heroic surge has ended, you will once again be subjected to the monsters' crowd control effects. Monsters are also able to have heroic surges, but the criteria is more difficult for the monster, and is scaled based on quest difficulty (the tougher the difficulty, the more opportunity the Monster will have for a heroic surge).

Specific Spell Changes

* The following spells/effects are no longer permanent. They now last 60 seconds base, and 20 seconds per level; the effects have a diminished duration on players.
o Curse
o Symbol of Weakness
o Mummy Curse

* The following spells have been front-loaded to be more useful at lower levels. These spells now have a base duration of 60 seconds, gaining 3 seconds per level, as opposed to just a few seconds per level:
o Fireshield
o Prayer
o Recitation

* The following spells are no longer permanent for players or monsters. Both players and monsters enjoy reoccurring saves against this effect, though players get saves more frequently. The spells now last 60 seconds plus 10 per caster level. The effects have a diminished duration on players.
o Feeblemind
o Flesh to Stone

* The following spells/effects now have reoccurring saves and diminished duration against players:
o Cause Fear
o Scare
o Hypnotic Pattern
o Greater Command
o Sleep
o Symbol of Stunning
o Symbol of Fear
o Paralyzing
o Several colors in the Prismatic Spray color wheel
o Blasphemy
o Otto's Resistible Dance
o Otto's Irresistible Dance (now with less Ir!)
o Halt Undead (ahem, yes, against certain players)
o Chill touch (just to be on the safe side - you never know!)
o Vampire Domination
o Ice Flenser Poison
o Jarilith Fearful Presence
o Lich Paralysis
o Gelatinous Cube Paralysis (he has a sad now)
o Idyllic Touch
o Mind Blast from Mind Flayers
+ Now has a diminished duration against players. Stand there too long, though, and he's still gonna eat your brains.
* The following spells/effects now have a diminished duration against players:
o Hold Person
o Hold Monster (hey to them, you're a Monster)
o Hold Animal (just in case!)
o Snare (the spell, not the trap)
+ Now has a max duration of 60 seconds
o Beholder Petrification
o Earth Elemental Petrification
o Change of Heart
* Other Spells
o Touch of Idiocy
+ Touch of Idiocy now has a duration of 60 seconds plus 30 seconds per caster level with a reduced duration against players.
o Hypnotism
+ Hypnotism had its duration increased slightly. Its duration against players has been reduced. Players get a reoccurring save while under the effects of hypnotism.
o Ghoul Touch
+ Ghoul Touch now has a reoccurring save, but a duration that scales better with level.
+ Ghoul Touch will now cause enemies near the afflicted target to become sickened.

Monks

* Monks now automatically receive the first tier of elemental stances for free. These are available in the character’s Feat list as a granted feat. Selecting a philosophy will now automatically grant Fists of Light or Fists of Darkness, which will also be found in the character’s Feat list.
* Lists of common finishing moves are now visible in the feats list. As a result of these changes, most monks should find that their enhancements have been reset.
* The Monk's Curse of Healing and Touch of Despair effects now have visual effects on their targets.
* The Two Weapon Fighting and Two Handed Fighting feats have been added to the martial arts feat list available to monks at levels 1, 2, and 6.
* The original monk paths have been replaced with new paths that better incorporate the changes that have been made to the class. Characters that are currently on one of the three paths will continue to remain on it, but newly created monks will have a choice of the Shintao Monk, Ninja Spy, or Henshin Mystic paths.

General Changes

* Wall of Fire and Blade Barrier, when cast by monsters, now have a different appearance from "friendly" Walls of Fire and Blade Barriers. In PvP, Team 2 uses these monster FX.
* Mummy Rot's description now explicitly says that it must be cured as both a curse and a disease.
* Chain Lightning has been fixed to affect multiple enemies... no, seriously!
* Removable curses that reduce or prevent positive energy healing now display a different (brighter) curse effect on a target, making it easier to differentiate between run-of-the-mill curses and healing preventing curses

K, there. WikiTroll and IncorrectOpinionTrolls both fed today - my job is done.

[suitepotato]

The devs have spent more time making things harder by nerfing our techniques, tactics, and strategies. Since game inception, this has appeared by virtue of the results to be their primary time sink. Numerous bugs still remain unfixed which are important to player. Keen not working on edged throwing weapons, blast effects on greensteel bows, etc., and yet they pointedly removed the alternate path from Running with the Devils.

Like I said elsewhere, people actually spent more time clearing dungeons when we could use AoE through doors (really, medieval technology level doors are suddenly airtight against cloudkill when my 2010 doors at home need to be weatherized every year?) and buy scrolls at the vendors. Now with limited resources, zerging is the best answer. Run, don't hit anything, get far enough away for it to lose interest. Nope, they added DA.

I applaud the new content and improvements, but they continue to embrace a mindset of 'their way or the highway' and it's a turnoff. However, they are not making the game easier by any stretch except in the view of some people and those people I would warn against it. It's the road to exclusivism and elitism, and it leads to having no player base and bad blood between those who are uber and those who are just normal. It destroys Internet communities and makes games no fun. If you want to run things hard, then run them only elite as soon as you can open it. Short man stuff with like minded people. Choose and agree to limit your spells and weapons. It's up to you.

We should eschew that road as if death itself was waiting at the end of that road.

[Ghoste]

Excellent post, Gol. That stuff is kinda hard to miss for those who actually read it though.