Why the constant tinkering, Devs?

[TheJusticar]

Devs,

I have to wonder why all the tinkering with game mechanics and dynamics since the release of Mod9. The game was mostly ok as it was with some glaring issues (that, btw, have NOT been addressed at all) and a dire lack of content. So, ok, good or bad you've added more content with each update, cool there. You've added "re-spec" options, cool there as well. Now, why are you trying to make this game easier? Color coding enemy fire, "casual" setting, changing the duration of CC spells for no real reason, changing the nature of spells for no real reason, adding mechanics that will probably cause certain end-game raid to be very hard to put a group together, etc. That's what I don't get. This constant tinkering causes more confusion than anything else. You are gearing this game to the "casuals" (I mean the writing is on the wall, right?) but you are forgetting that you also have a large player base that play this game for hours/day and have done so for years. A "causual" player won't be following the forums and looking out for changes in the release notes so in a way it kind of defeats the purpose.

Please stop the tinkering.

Godspeed.

[calvinklien]

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[Beherit_Baphomar]

It's a whole new game now. Tinkering is necessary. I don't like it, in fact I prolly hate it more than you do. But I understand it. The people the game now caters to is not the two thousand that have played for four years but the ten thousand that joined because it's free.

As for the boots of anchoring, I'm 100% positive this was changed to make people run the Amrath content. It won't work, imo. What they shouldve done was change the terrible rings that drop in TOD.

And yeah, as you said we've had problems for YEARs that are not being addressed. My favorite being pots vs. rage and, although I don't have a monk, greenweave handwraps. Two examples of utter fail from the Devs.

Oh but the vets get Epic……cool.

[Horrorscope]

Why do they do this? Because they are trying to make more money. DDO is different enough from the rest that new blood can get easily intimidated. If one doesn't always look at the negative, you can see they are trying to help everyone, low-middle-high. They have more difficulty options for everyone. Why do I care if I can't run Epic and you can? Why do I care if I can run Elite and someone else can only run casual? I don't, it's a PvE game, we aren't competing against one another, we are trying to have a game accessible to most anyone and they can find their gameplay level and enjoy questing. This game will not make it, if it's only for the best of the best.

Really does this need to be explained? There will be tinkering and imo this game has many many areas it can tinker with. I think most of the ideas they have make sense, even the CC one's. There are issues with this games CC on many levels, perhaps what they are doing isn't the best. But lets see and if it flops hugley the can change it. But there has to have been many hours going over this designing. They see such a broader picture of all players then what any of us can figure out.

I get pretty much everything they've been doing. IMO I get the feeling we are in DDO's golden age.

Many people that can't play the game on it's highest end, will most likely not come here to get their voice heard, for various reasons. However Turbine knows in general the percentages of these players and my guess is it's significant to the point they need to figure how cater to them, but they are also tryign to throw the vets bones to.

[Borror0]

Now, why are you trying to make this game easier?

Appealing to a larger playerbase is a good way to increase profits and that it what they have been doing.

This constant tinkering causes more confusion than anything else.

I'm confused too. Before I read this line, I thought you felt Turbine were "dumbing the game down" but, now, I realize I must have been wrong. Clearly, if you can't understand or keep up with what has been going on for the last few months, the games needs further "dumbing down" to help you keep up easily.

[Ghoste]

Appealing to a larger playerbase is a good way to increase profits and that it what they have been doing.

The common term for that is "appealing to the lowest common denominator". WoW has made an art form of it. Looks like Turbine can no longer resist the temptation.

[Borror0]

The common term for that is "appealing to the lowest common denominator".

Does not apply, here. Turbine has four difficulty settings which means it wants to appeal to several types of players.

[Ghoste]

Does not apply, here. Turbine has four difficulty settings which means it wants to appeal to several types of players.

That would be true if the only tinkering they've done were to add more difficulty settings. When they tinker in a way that dumbs things down for ALL difficulty settings, then it is another matter.

[Borror0]

When they tinker in a way that dumbs things down for ALL difficulty settings, then it is another matter.

Of course. Though, they have not done that so that is not applicable either.

[Rheebus]

Seems to me that there's little bit for everyone. I play a lot, and I've been playing since the 2006 launch. I never run out of fun things to do. The game is what the player makes of it. Lil' Mo says, "Blame the game, not the player." I tend to have the opposite opinion.

[Pfamily]

The common term for that is "appealing to the lowest common denominator". WoW has made an art form of it. Looks like Turbine can no longer resist the temptation.

*ding
Winner

[suitepotato]

The devs have spent more time making things harder by nerfing our techniques, tactics, and strategies. Since game inception, this has appeared by virtue of the results to be their primary time sink. Numerous bugs still remain unfixed which are important to player. Keen not working on edged throwing weapons, blast effects on greensteel bows, etc., and yet they pointedly removed the alternate path from Running with the Devils.

Like I said elsewhere, people actually spent more time clearing dungeons when we could use AoE through doors (really, medieval technology level doors are suddenly airtight against cloudkill when my 2010 doors at home need to be weatherized every year?) and buy scrolls at the vendors. Now with limited resources, zerging is the best answer. Run, don't hit anything, get far enough away for it to lose interest. Nope, they added DA.

I applaud the new content and improvements, but they continue to embrace a mindset of 'their way or the highway' and it's a turnoff. However, they are not making the game easier by any stretch except in the view of some people and those people I would warn against it. It's the road to exclusivism and elitism, and it leads to having no player base and bad blood between those who are uber and those who are just normal. It destroys Internet communities and makes games no fun. If you want to run things hard, then run them only elite as soon as you can open it. Short man stuff with like minded people. Choose and agree to limit your spells and weapons. It's up to you.

We should eschew that road as if death itself was waiting at the end of that road.

[Ghoste]

Excellent post, Gol. That stuff is kinda hard to miss for those who actually read it though.

[suitepotato]

So reduced flesh to stone time on monsters is a game weakening thing how? It makes it easier how?

NOW you cannot ignore the stoned giants at Prey on the Hunter and MUST take them out right away while they are immobilized, during which time you are subject to the dragon blowing you across the cavern AND the unstoned giants whomping all over you. It's no longer a matter of destroying them at your leisure. They just made flesh to stone less useful and more critical to use with your next minute actions firmly in mind.

Some of the effects shortened were irrelevant or merely annoying to begin with. Ghoul touch? Please. Feeblemind when your cleric will fix you or you can get a heal-removal from the store?

Anyone notice that the monsters are dispelling buffs way more often now? I'm seeing my barkskin gone in seconds in some dungeons and if not for combat expertise, I'd be whittled down long before getting halfway through the instance. End game is especially more critical now to watch as your buff removal and overt debuffs are piling up and the monsters still have unlimited mana and your casters are running through theirs too darn fast on hard or elite, and even normal sometimes.

Overall, the game remains stacked against players, especially as difficulty goes up. Shroud elite is and will remain something most pugs won't pull off to say nothing of ToD Epic whenever that happens. You want hard, run naked with a +1 dagger through the blood crypt series. All they did was give a few conciliatory adjustments which won't do anything serious overall. Getting to 20 for new people who play casually will still be a challenge unless they are in that top tier of gamers who do everything naturally wonderfully.

For those who find everything too easy, go do the Mensa puzzles.

[Cyr]

Appealing to a larger playerbase is a good way to increase profits and that it what they have been doing.

Not really what they are doing Borro and it is not honest to claim it is. Unless your belief is that the majority of players found quarter/dd the right difficulty, epic the right difficulty, love grinding for boot ingredients so much that they want to do it on their casters now too, enjoyed DA, and are such incredibly noobs that even with dungeon scaling they still just can't do a dungeon on normal. I'm pretty cynical, but even I don't think that a majority of the player base is power gamers who love epic or noobs who can't tie their shoes without an instructional video.

[Angelus_dead]

I have to wonder why all the tinkering with game mechanics and dynamics since the release of Mod9. The game was mostly ok

That's hilarious. The game is not OK, and needs a lot more tinkering to get up to speed.

Their priorities are different then I would have selected, and for example I wouldn't have tried fixing Air Elementals with a global rule change (because the problem IS a local one), but tinkering is needed. After they get done with this stuff they should proceed to tinker with ranged combat, shield defense, metamagic UI, 5+ capstones, 10+ spells, and 15+ feats, because all of those things need work.

Oh and things like Dungeon Scaling and Epic mode? A lot more tinkering please! That'd be better than leaving them bad.

[Ghoste]

That's hilarious. The game is not OK, and needs a lot more tinkering to get up to speed.

Their priorities are different then I would have selected, and for example I wouldn't have tried fixing Air Elementals with a global rule change (because the problem IS a local one), but tinkering is needed. After they get done with this stuff they should proceed to tinker with ranged combat, shield defense, metamagic UI, 5+ capstones, 10+ spells, and 15+ feats, because all of those things need work.

Oh and things like Dungeon Scaling and Epic mode? A lot more tinkering please! That'd be better than leaving them bad.

Agree. Tinkering obviously can sometimes help. What they have done on this particular occasion, I don't like.

/sarcasm on: Oh, but what am I talking about...obviously all those spells never affected any players anyways. We're all immune to those spells all the time. So what I should really be saying is that all this tinkering was a waste of time because it didn't actually do anything. At all.

[oberon131313]

Devs,

I have to wonder why all the tinkering with game mechanics and dynamics since the release of Mod9. The game was mostly ok as it was with some glaring issues (that, btw, have NOT been addressed at all) and a dire lack of content.

In your opinion. I personally feel that elemental pinball was one of those glaring issues, and now we have a solution that makes a bit of sense, from a gameplay perspective (as opposed to a "based in reality" perspective)

So, ok, good or bad you've added more content with each update, cool there.

Thus addressing your first gripe.

You've added "re-spec" options, cool there as well. Now, why are you trying to make this game easier? Color coding enemy fire, "casual" setting, changing the duration of CC spells for no real reason, changing the nature of spells for no real reason, adding mechanics that will probably cause certain end-game raid to be very hard to put a group together, etc.

wait, which is it, you've got this list of things that are "making the game easier" yet complaining about something being more difficult at the same time? Now, I've read through all of the thread, and I've seen the silly debate that's been raging, and I understand scope vs. magnitude and all that jazz, but what "the other side" fails to see is that these changes really are tiny. Diminishing Returns are a standard in most MMOs, because they effectively address balance issues, when implemented correctly. Does the fact that feeblemind now has a timer mean really anything?

That's what I don't get. This constant tinkering causes more confusion than anything else. You are gearing this game to the "casuals" (I mean the writing is on the wall, right?) but you are forgetting that you also have a large player base that play this game for hours/day and have done so for years. A "causual" player won't be following the forums and looking out for changes in the release notes so in a way it kind of defeats the purpose.

The problem with the "a casual player won't even read these" is that the changes aren't being made to wave around, they are actually to serve a purpose. You assume that the Devs make these changes so that some F2P player will come by and go "oh that's cool, just what I always wanted," but in fact, the changes are made so that every player has the potential for a more enjoyable experience. Now the fact that some players' toes are getting stepped upon is inevitable, but to those that feel that way, I ask, is the long-term, continued success of the game really not worth your personal "fun factor?" Does the fact that feeblemind may cause less players to /ragequit really ruin the game for you?

Please stop the tinkering.

Godspeed.

How fast is Godspeed, exactly? Faster or slower than the speed of light?

[Failedlegend]

Devs,

Color coding enemy fire,

That just more of a convience thing especially when there's 3 FW/BB on both sides...yes easier but nothing to do with "dumbing" down the game it just makes sense in a frantic game like this.

"casual" setting

Don't like it don't use it personally I'm gonna use this setting for when I duo with my brother which is the idea of the setting ("Small Parties")

Changing the duration of CC spells for no real reason

Oh there's a reason its called once your tripped by a wolf you stay tripped because they don't stop essentially taking you out until help arrives...this is what I'd call fixing something thats broken.

changing the nature of spells for no real reason, adding mechanics that will probably cause certain end-game raid to be very hard to put a group together

Ok so BAD turbine for making the game easier and BAD turbine for making something harder (I'm assuming your referring to the singing boss affecting everyone)

This constant tinkering causes more confusion than anything else.

"This Constant tinkering is an integral part of any online game and its great that Turbine listens to its playerbase" FIXED!!

You are gearing this game to the "casuals" (I mean the writing is on the wall, right?) but you are forgetting that you also have a large player base that play this game for hours/day and have done so for years. A "casual" player won't be following the forums and looking out for changes in the release notes so in a way it kind of defeats the purpose.

Actually I always see a mix of new and old players on the forums...I wish more people would use the forums but alot don't even know its here (new and old players alike) but really I see Turbine catering to "ALL" players...the last update was almost exclusively 17-20ish content and this one has lots of non "casual" updates.