Pale Master review

[maddmatt70]

To me this sounds like an insanely awesome PrE.. I wish i didn't delete my wizards =/ or that it was available to sorcerers ,as mine is max DC necro spec, which is now far behind wizards.

The healing drawback sounds pretty major, but I think good player will be able to work around it, even in pugs.

Personally I'd just carry a stack of harm scrolls, give them to the cleric and ask that they heal me AFTER combat. I know that sorting between heal and harm scrolls during combat will just get the melee''s killed..

But on a Warforged pale master with his +4 con and +20 hp bonus (easy 600+ hp) and DC45+ wail of the banshee.. I'll survive every encounter anyways and never need battle heals. And since cleric's often cant use reconstruct scrolls, its actually increasing my healing amp in a backwards kinda way hehe.

I think it's basicaly the ultimate class/pre for clearing elite quests against standard non-deathblock'd mobs.

Now for epic or deathblock'd monster quest, it's quite a bit less useful.. But the free at will nukes are still there, and lich form is always optional so won't be used in dangerous encounters.
A tough WF battlewizard up at the frontlines tossing out unlimited non-stop 150+ dmg nukes (on saves, even versus mobs with evasion) would still be a welcome party member even for the hardest of epic quests.

Overall I like it. Can't wait for the Sorc PrE.. Hopefully we get some unlimited at will fireballs or scorching rays and a big evocation DC jump.

Fair review I would concur with what you say here. I hate letting people die which is quite probable more likely with no healing in battle. There are so many quests and situations where the arcane takes damage that is difficult to avoid. I would guess every wizard will grab this pre, but what it will mean in all practicality is the clerics/fvs have to heal and harm which makes life more difficult and less fun for the healer or the wizard will be let to die which I also hate. There are other little things like bards not getting inflict/harm spells and thereby reducing their healing effectiveness. Why do wizards get to have more fun while healers get less fun? Perhaps there should be a pre which gives clerics +8 wisdom but where they can not heal anyone else but themselves - then you would hear cries about the selfish clerics..

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Even if all you got from Pale Master was Necrotic Touch, it would still be one of the most powerful PrEs in the game. I have no idea what everyone is complaining about.

On top of infinite free damage (albeit in touch range, but you probably won't have aggro most of the time), you get the stances. Now I haven't played as/with a Pale Master yet, but here's my take on those:

You ought to be able to use them just fine in any party with a cleric. I honestly don't think the switching between harm and heal will be an issue at all; we clerics already switch between different heal/cure spells. It isn't that hard to hotkey harm as well. I play both a cleric and an FvS, and I really think people are overblowing the no-positive-energy-healing disadvantage. Remember, folks, exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.

With regard to favored souls, things become a bit trickier. Some FvS will pick up harm, but a lot won't (I'm still undecided on mine). In this scenario, the wizard really has to be sure he can survive the next three minutes without healing (or with minimal healing; maybe FvS will start to pick up things like Inflict Light Wounds for out-of-combat healing) when he hits that button. Even in this case though, the stance is an advantage; it is merely a more situational one.

Are the stances as powerful as they could be? No. Will they be useful? Absolutely. And of course, as Shade said,

A tough WF battlewizard up at the frontlines tossing out unlimited non-stop 150+ dmg nukes (on saves, even versus mobs with evasion) would still be a welcome party member even for the hardest of epic quests.

Overall I like it. Can't wait for the Sorc PrE.. Hopefully we get some unlimited at will fireballs or scorching rays and a big evocation DC jump.

Agreed 100%. This almost makes me want to redo my sorc as a wizard, but I'll probably wait and hope we get some nice stuff as well.

[Monkey_Archer]

Even if all you got from Pale Master was Necrotic Touch, it would still be one of the most powerful PrEs in the game. I have no idea what everyone is complaining about.

As much as i like necromatic touch, at best this ability only results in about 50 dps... and hardly makes this the most powerful PRE because of it.

[Xenus_Paradox]

As much as i like necromatic touch, at best this ability only results in about 50 dps... and hardly makes this the most powerful PRE because of it.

300+ damage for free is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously, it can't be your primary damage source as it has a 6-second cooldown, but rather than looking at it as "only" being 50 dps... think of it as ADDING +50 to your DPS.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

300+ damage for free is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously, it can't be your primary damage source as it has a 6-second cooldown, but rather than looking at it as "only" being 50 dps... think of it as ADDING +50 to your DPS.

Exactly.

And, as we learned from BFME, anything that is free is good. I didn't say (or mean) that the touch made it the best PrE. I meant that it made it one of the more powerful ones. Heck, if a melee PrE gave +50 DPS, people would love it--the end-game max-DPS characters get somewhere from 400 to 500 DPS (higher and lower depending on circumstances), and an extra 10%+ is nothing to scoff at.

For a caster, who is generally out of luck when he runs out of resources, the extra free damage is extremely nice.

[Angelus_dead]

Heck, if a melee PrE gave +50 DPS, people would love it

That's not a valid comparison, because a melee specialty doesn't really take time away from the activities you'd already be doing.

For a wizard to be within touch distance of his opponent every 6 seconds will mean a major change to what wizards typically do in combat gameplay, which revolves around keeping outside of reach.

Always remember: The most important currency of D&D combat is actions.

[Aspenor]

They need to make a Pale Master able to be targetted by negative energy effects if this is going to work at all.

[Monkey_Archer]

That's not a valid comparison, because a melee specialty doesn't really take time away from the activities you'd already be doing.

For a wizard to be within touch distance of his opponent every 6 seconds will mean a major change to what wizards typically do in combat gameplay, which revolves around keeping outside of reach.

Always remember: The most important currency of D&D combat is actions.

This is my point as well...
Caster dps is created by cycling through your most powerful spells. Necromatic touch does not increase dps unless it is more powerful then all other spells available (which its not)

[Aspenor]

Questions for somebody to test, if they can:

Does your worn gear still function in undead form? Could you, for example, have a Shroud of the Abbot functioning while in undead form? This would heal you every time you were hit in melee.

[Angelus_dead]

Caster dps is created by cycling through your most powerful spells. Necromatic touch does not increase dps unless it is more powerful then all other spells available (which its not)

Well, a caster can choose between two basic criteria for DPS spells: aiming for either throughput (damage per second) or efficiency (damage per mana).

If you're going strictly for DPS, then Necrotic Touch doesn't help unless it is better than the weakest spell that would otherwise be in your rotation (and if the lesser range doesn't get in the way). But when going for DPM Necrotic Touch will be all of your rotation.

What may happen is a wizard who wants something in between will alternate casting his best DPM spell and using Necrotic Touch in between. So what it comes down to is that Necrotic Touch is a DPS boost only when you're not really trying to maximize DPS.

[RigorAdar]

From a cleric/FvS standpoint, Harm is directional heal is within range. So if your healer isn't facing you you cant be Harmed. Many times when healing in chaotic battles I'm not looking to see where you are, I'm looking at life bars or where I'm running to.

[Mastese]

What a shame that wraith and lich form aren’t permanent transformations. Making them toggleable seems to cheapen the whole experience.

It’s the pursuit of the Dark Arts and the seduction of the inevitable evolution into a powerful Lich that would make this Prestige Class absolutely fantastic and unique.

There would be the obvious downside of not being able to take advantage of traditional healing and possible alienation from groups because of it that would easily offset the benefits.

Better yet, instead of creating a Prestige Class that every single Wizard will consider adopting due to it being the only current option, it will take a significant commitment in order to truly want to pursue this. This would preserve the uniqueness of the Class instead of creating a situation where every other Wizard can toggle in and out of Wraith or Lich forms….that’s just weird.

Just my thoughts, and why I probably won’t respec to do it myself.

-Mastese

[Dylos_Moon]

Questions for somebody to test, if they can:

Does your worn gear still function in undead form? Could you, for example, have a Shroud of the Abbot functioning while in undead form? This would heal you every time you were hit in melee.

I'll let you know about the shroud of the abbot tomorrow when sir poincealot visits us.

[Nezichiend]

If you can be healed by harm, Why do people care?
Its not really that hard for a clr to take harm, maybe it will be a little harder for FvS (clrs get a buff.... finally).

I usually don't use mass heals on casters because they aren't near melees so I just cast either heal or cure critical on them.

The only problem I see with it is communication between the PM and the healer, to know when to hit him with negative or positive healing.

[Mhykke]

i may have missed it, but can you scroll harm (if you have the umd) or clicky harm on yourself, or is it strictly from someone else?

[Nezichiend]

i may have missed it, but can you scroll harm (if you have the umd) or clicky harm on yourself, or is it strictly from someone else?

Pretty sure you cannot heal yourself with scrolls

[bobbryan2]

300+ damage for free is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously, it can't be your primary damage source as it has a 6-second cooldown, but rather than looking at it as "only" being 50 dps... think of it as ADDING +50 to your DPS.

That shows a pretty poor understanding of casters.

Yes, it's powerful. No, it's not that wonderful. All PrEs will be getting at will abilities, remember? Is this more powerful than an at will fireball? Didn't think so.

It's not an addition of 50 dps, it's only the ability to do 50 dps when you're out of SP.

[bobbryan2]

Pretty sure you cannot heal yourself with scrolls

Which doesn't make sense.


Just throwing that out there.

[Khellendros13]

Pretty sure you cannot heal yourself with scrolls

I mentioned this before, but no one seemed to notice.

I healed myself, a WF Wiz, in Lich form, with a cure moderate scroll last night. For 8 points, but I have no healers friend enhancements.

Will test again in 4 hours.

[Dylos_Moon]

I mentioned this before, but no one seemed to notice.

I healed myself, a WF Wiz, in Lich form, with a cure moderate scroll last night. For 8 points, but I have no healers friend enhancements.

Will test again in 4 hours.

See, this makes no sense, cause I tried casting heal (offensively) against a warforged in a pvp match, and got an immune message. Are you inside of a public or private instance? Because the undead traits don't happen inside a public instance.