Pale Master review

[Renegade66]

anyone else noticing that the devs are kind of obsessed with the idea of giving us abilities that comes with healing immunity on it? >___>

The ability to recover hit points during battle is overrated.

[Flack]

speculating, havent found a PM yet^^

but as M_A just said, inflict doesnt work, so harm wont either...would bug report that cause it should considering its target entry

My PM is Eyegee if you want to do some testing. I've been hopping onto the forums a bit so if you don't get a reply immediately that's why.

-Flack.

[Monkey_Archer]

More testing:

-Undead form does grant immunity to enervation, fatigue and exhaustion.
-A living harm will NOT cast harm on you in undead form (not sure if this is a bug, a targeting issue or AI)
-Undead form does not make you immune to cold.
-Inflict wounds, inflict wounds mass, harm and necrotic touch can be used to heal other PMs, but do not affect self (even mass inflict)

[Dylos_Moon]

More testing:

-Undead form does grant immunity to enervation, fatigue and exhaustion.
-A living harm will NOT cast harm on you in undead form (not sure if this is a bug, a targeting issue or AI)
-Undead form does not make you immune to cold.

Still trying to think of some other way to test the negative energy healing

A cleric can cast harm on a PM in form.

Harm neither includes Undead Foe (Living harm casting on you) or Undead self (Scroll casting Harm on yourself) as valid targets. This means that you must have another person cast negative energy spells on you to receive hit points.

[Renegade66]

A cleric can cast harm on a PM in form.

Has this been confirmed?

[Dylos_Moon]

Has this been confirmed?

Yes, and I can confirm it for you as well if you have a pale master, hit my lfm on lamannia

[Renegade66]

Can a healer target a Pale Master with Inflict Wounds and Mass Inflict Wounds?

[Dylos_Moon]

Can a healer target a Pale Master with Inflict Wounds and Mass Inflict Wounds?

Since the targeting is the same, I would think so (i can test it) however inflict various wounds are all touch range (mass isn't)

[gavagai]

The PrE gives limitless free xd6 enlargeable/maximizable necrotic touches and 3 minutes of +2(+4 necro) DCs, +40hps (+60 including the PrE bonus), crit and drain immunities. And yet the reception is lukewarm because... there's no easy self/other heal?!

Part of the art is wizardry is knowing how to keep out of trouble. If a wizard can't stay alive with 3 minutes of +40hp and a near-50 DC, then maybe he/she should play Favored Soul. Get tough. xD

Maybe many wizards need self-heals for their builds to be effective. But I DON'T think they should tweak this PrE to allow more intense wizard self-healing. That's not core to what wizards do. A self-cast harm or (heaven forbid) 970hp necrotic touch would be beyond cheesy -- it would be the wizard I-win button. No thanks.

Necrotic touch and the forms are powerful additions to a wizard's toolkit. Devs should spend time making more necro spells, and more PrE's. A self-cast ghoul touch could be a nice new spell, but nothing unbalancing.

[Calebro]

The PrE gives limitless free xd6 enlargeable/maximizable necrotic touches and 3 minutes of +2(+4 necro) DCs, +40hps (+60 including the PrE bonus), crit and drain immunities. And yet the reception is lukewarm because... there's no easy self/other heal?!

Part of the art is wizardry is knowing how to keep out of trouble. If a wizard can't stay alive with 3 minutes of +40hp and a near-50 DC, then maybe he/she should play Favored Soul. Get tough. xD

Maybe many wizards need self-heals for their builds to be effective. But I DON'T think they should tweak this PrE to allow more intense wizard self-healing. That's not core to what wizards do. A self-cast harm or (heaven forbid) 970hp necrotic touch would be beyond cheesy -- it would be the wizard I-win button. No thanks.

Necrotic touch and the forms are powerful additions to a wizard's toolkit. Devs should spend time making more necro spells, and more PrE's. A self-cast ghoul touch could be a nice new spell, but nothing unbalancing.

qft

[Flack]

As mentioned a friendly Harm spell will heal.
Two PM's can touch heal each other. BUT.... a friendly PM makes a save for half healing/damage.
Inflict mass will heal PM's in your party as well as summons, but not the scroll user if they are in form.
Summons can not be dismissed or dispelled.


Thanks to Hiyume and Khaarnath.
-Flack.

[Renegade66]

The PrE gives limitless free xd6 enlargeable/maximizable necrotic touches and 3 minutes of +2(+4 necro) DCs, +40hps (+60 including the PrE bonus), crit and drain immunities. And yet the reception is lukewarm because... there's no easy self/other heal?!

Part of the art is wizardry is knowing how to keep out of trouble. If a wizard can't stay alive with 3 minutes of +40hp and a near-50 DC, then maybe he/she should play Favored Soul. Get tough. xD

Maybe many wizards need self-heals for their builds to be effective. But I DON'T think they should tweak this PrE to allow more intense wizard self-healing. That's not core to what wizards do. A self-cast harm or (heaven forbid) 970hp necrotic touch would be beyond cheesy -- it would be the wizard I-win button. No thanks.

Necrotic touch and the forms are powerful additions to a wizard's toolkit. Devs should spend time making more necro spells, and more PrE's. A self-cast ghoul touch could be a nice new spell, but nothing unbalancing.

The beef wasn't that there wasn't "an easy self/other heal". The beef was that there was no way to heal at all, which would have made it a hard sell. It appears though that you can be healed in undead form via Harm and Inflict Wounds. To me, this fact makes the healing thing moot. I'm looking forward to my Lesser Reincarnate.

[Monkey_Archer]

The PrE gives limitless free xd6 enlargeable/maximizable necrotic touches and 3 minutes of +2(+4 necro) DCs, +40hps (+60 including the PrE bonus), crit and drain immunities. And yet the reception is lukewarm because... there's no easy self/other heal?!

Part of the art is wizardry is knowing how to keep out of trouble. If a wizard can't stay alive with 3 minutes of +40hp and a near-50 DC, then maybe he/she should play Favored Soul. Get tough. xD

Maybe many wizards need self-heals for their builds to be effective. But I DON'T think they should tweak this PrE to allow more intense wizard self-healing. That's not core to what wizards do. A self-cast harm or (heaven forbid) 970hp necrotic touch would be beyond cheesy -- it would be the wizard I-win button. No thanks.

Necrotic touch and the forms are powerful additions to a wizard's toolkit. Devs should spend time making more necro spells, and more PrE's. A self-cast ghoul touch could be a nice new spell, but nothing unbalancing.

IMO, the issue isnt that self healing should be easy... just that it is feasible. Currently any form of self healing is impossible in undead form. In theory a cleric can heal a PM with harm, but practically it just wont happen except in very select groups. Similar to bladesworn transformation, its possible to beg a caster to keep you alive for 3 minutes but it just never happens...

[Renegade66]

IMO, the issue isnt that self healing should be easy... just that it is feasible. Currently any form of self healing is impossible in undead form. In theory a cleric can heal a PM with harm, but practically it just wont happen except in very select groups. Similar to bladesworn transformation, its possible to beg a caster to keep you alive for 3 minutes but it just never happens...

I disagree. Picking up harm and a mass inflict wounds is easy for a Cleric if they don't already have it. The FvS will have to drop Comet Fall and pick up Harm though, which might be painful for some.

[richieelias]

Hm... does anyone else find it slightly disturbing that a major complaint with palemaster is that you cant touch yourself?

[maddmatt70]

IMO, the issue isnt that self healing should be easy... just that it is feasible. Currently any form of self healing is impossible in undead form. In theory a cleric can heal a PM with harm, but practically it just wont happen except in very select groups. Similar to bladesworn transformation, its possible to beg a caster to keep you alive for 3 minutes but it just never happens...

It most definitely is not pug group friendly. It really is a static group prestige enhancement. Run with another pale master or a cleric that is a healbot dedicated to healing because mixing healing/harm/fighting will become problematic. This assumes that you actually do content of any substance. If you run through content that any build can run through then its kind of moot. If you do epic content or challenging content where you actually might take some damage then when the archmage pre comes available you will be swapping to that pre.

[Visty]

can you be healed in enemy arcane auras?
might be worth to find out too

[bobbryan2]

I'm still not clear on why you can't repair yourself as a warforged lich.

Should negative energy healing not be half as effective, but repairs still heal for full? Is this simply a balance issue, rules be damned?

[Dylos_Moon]

I'm still not clear on why you can't repair yourself as a warforged lich.

Should negative energy healing not be half as effective, but repairs still heal for full? Is this simply a balance issue, rules be damned?

Negative energy healing is half as effective, on all targets, because you still get a saving throw.

[moops]

This sounds fun, and since I already carry Harm and Inflict serious I can't wait to group with Wizards trying this out But most Wizards I know don't take much damage anyway so not sure Ill even have to heal them much.