Pale Master review

[KKDragonLord]

Frostmarrow Arcane: casts frostlance, snowball storm, ice storm, sleet storm

Sweet merciful Arneson... NOooooo!
I just know i will party with one of those one day, and ill be blinded by this stupid spell, and the slow walking... oh god, the slow walking.
Honestly i consider this spell much worse than the Grease breath of the iron defender, wont they ever learn how to make a pet that doesnt screw things up?
The chances of this happening on the worst possible moments are always going to follow murphy's law.

[phalaeo]

This does not sound like a very feasible pre. I mean how does somebody propose to stay alive with no healing for 3 minutes. A cleric has to constantly be looking at keeping the wizard up with the harm spell assuming a cleric can target the wizard. With no self healing, no ac, or dr to speak off this is the most clerical dependent character out there. Oh and how many FVS will be carrying inflict spells or harm. You thought there was a little warforge hate out there well this pre makes that look like a joke.

I actually look forward to this as an interesting challenge for my cleric.

[LeLoric]

The inability to UMD inflict and harm effects onto yourself as a Pale Master in one of the temporary undead forms will be fixed shortly. All effects able to target "Undead Friends" will be able to target the caster as well, if the caster is undead. There will be a few changes to Necrotic Touch to keep this from becoming crazybroken(tm).

Please don't change the effectiveness of Necrotic touch as an offensive weapon though. Hopefully this fix isn't an increased timer or decrease in damage of the ability overall. Maybe have it only heal for half of the total damage or something similar.

[bobbryan2]

Please don't change the effectiveness of Necrotic touch as an offensive weapon though. Hopefully this fix isn't an increased timer or decrease in damage of the ability overall. Maybe have it only heal for half of the total damage or something similar.

Agreed. Self-cast necrotic touch should be closer to 1d8 + char levels. Similar to FvS capstone.

[sephiroth1084]

Maybe it should just deal 1/2 damage to quasi-undead, and still call for a save, thereby usually dealing 1/4 damage?

Or we could say that quasi-undead heal for only 1 point per X number of points of negative energy (Inflict spells, Harm, Enervation, etc...)?

[Angelus_dead]

Agreed. Self-cast necrotic touch should be closer to 1d8 + char levels. Similar to FvS capstone.

It would be a mistake for 12 levels in a non-healer class to give you an ability that close to the capstone of the best healer class (especially considering that qualifying for the capstone is costly).

If a Pale Master wants to self heal, it should cost him resources, either in plat or spellpoints. That would fulfill the gameplay role of reducing the imbalance between mages of Warforged or other races.

[sephiroth1084]

It would be a mistake for 12 levels in a non-healer class to give you an ability that close to the capstone of the best healer class (especially considering that qualifying for the capstone is costly).

How so?

If a Pale Master wants to self heal, it should cost him resources, either in plat or spellpoints. That would fulfill the gameplay role of reducing the imbalance between mages of Warforged or other races.

It does cost the wizard a bit--feats, enhancements and the ability to be healed by everyone else. Whether the cost is steep enough or not, I can't say, but it's not like wizards have no other recourse for self-healing anyway.

I'd be in favor of the ability costing 5 or 10 SP a hit.

[Angelus_dead]

How so?

The FVS healing capstone is primarily costly in preventing you from getting a good melee weapon, which would synergize superbly with unlimited hitpoints.

It does cost the wizard a bit--feats, enhancements and the ability to be healed by everyone else. Whether the cost

Those are the costs of the ability to get the healing, not of the healing itself. That's a crucial distinction when looking at a game based on resource attrition, and I hope that Eladrin is aware of how gamebreaking this could get.

How DDO works is that recovering hitpoints costs resources: either spellpoints or plat for consumables. The three exceptions so far:
1. Light Monks (but they heal very slowly)
2. FVS capstone (but it only kicks in at the top level when resources are most affordable, and from a class with lots of sp anyhow)
3. Torc-items (which must be called a design flaw)

Allowing a Wizard12 to heal himself for 45/click at no marginal cost would be too far away from the fundamental gameplay model to be allowed.

[sephiroth1084]

That's some serious ninja-editing you've got their A_D!

Anyway, like I said, a cost of some SP (5 seems right), along with the prereqs. already in place for the PrE, and the inability to be healed by anyone else for the duration that you can heal yourself (also, not on all the time) would seem to leave this fairly balanced. The healing would likely be a little better than Reconstruct is currently for WF Wizards for self-healing, and a non-issue for party support.

My concern, though, is that the ability to use this offensively may be just as good at 5 mana as at 0, but it may be too weak to be really usable. I'm thinking that's likely not the case since a really cheap, high damage "spell" that doesn't get its cost jacked up by metamagics yet benefits from them would still be worthwhile.

[Raiderone]

The inability to UMD inflict and harm effects onto yourself as a Pale Master in one of the temporary undead forms will be fixed shortly. All effects able to target "Undead Friends" will be able to target the caster as well, if the caster is undead. There will be a few changes to Necrotic Touch to keep this from becoming crazybroken(tm).

Great news. Time to Lesser Reincarnate...need UMD. Hopefully can test on Lamannia first.

[wiglin]

It would be a mistake for 12 levels in a non-healer class to give you an ability that close to the capstone of the best healer class (especially considering that qualifying for the capstone is costly).

If a Pale Master wants to self heal, it should cost him resources, either in plat or spellpoints. That would fulfill the gameplay role of reducing the imbalance between mages of Warforged or other races.

The issue with using resources for balance reasons is most players I know have unlimited resources, as they have all been playing since the beginning, so allowing the palemaster to have a less resource heavy way to be self-sufficient would give newer players who do not have endless amounts of plat to spend on scrolls and such, a way to keep up.

Do I think this is balanced...mabee not. I would have liked to see ddo released with no scroll vender's. That is one thing I loved about FFXI, consumables where horribly expensive, and so you either had to craft them or be crazy rich to be worth using them, so everyone had to learn how to play with abilities, and not use the crutch that is consumables.

But that is not ddo, and its not uncommon to have warforged wizards and clerics with stacks and stacks of scrolls. It makes it a little tough for a new player to come along and compete when they cannot afford, so with that in mind I do not mind if the palemaster gives them an easier time to self-heal 3 out of 5 minutes. Remembers it only works when in undead form, so it would not be 100% self heal. The self heal only works 60% of the time and the other 40% they are dependant upon scrolls, umd and potions. I think that balances it out.

[Bunker]

The inability to UMD inflict and harm effects onto yourself as a Pale Master in one of the temporary undead forms will be fixed shortly. All effects able to target "Undead Friends" will be able to target the caster as well, if the caster is undead. There will be a few changes to Necrotic Touch to keep this from becoming crazybroken(tm).

Blue Horseshoe loves Pale Master!

[joeuhuh]

has anyone tested if horrid wilting is neg energy if so that spell might pop up on the radar

[Visty]

has anyone tested if horrid wilting is neg energy if so that spell might pop up on the radar

its not unless they changed it
currently its dehydration dmg

[Monkey_Archer]

It would be a mistake for 12 levels in a non-healer class to give you an ability that close to the capstone of the best healer class (especially considering that qualifying for the capstone is costly).

If a Pale Master wants to self heal, it should cost him resources, either in plat or spellpoints. That would fulfill the gameplay role of reducing the imbalance between mages of Warforged or other races.

It sounds to me like necrotic touch will either cost sp to self-heal, or have a reduced effect for healing (likely D6+1 per level) neither of which seems too unbalanced to me.

Yes, a FVS must wait till level 20 to get a similar ability... but that capstone is much more powerful. Think about it.
A fvs does not have to suffer the no divine healing penalty to use it. A fvs can use that ability to heal others as well, and a fvs can use it 100% of the time, not 60%.

[maddmatt70]

Shouldn't change them much--right now you run the risk of ending up with a wizard with about 180 HP who doesnt know what spells he should be using or how to cast swiftly, or how to avoid grabbing too much aggro, or... The list goes on. This won't make much of a difference.

Oh it will change. More of the mediocre/decent wizards will fall into the bad category next mod and the good wizards will be even better. The best wizards will be more sought after then the best sorcs.

[Favis]

The inability to UMD inflict and harm effects onto yourself as a Pale Master in one of the temporary undead forms will be fixed shortly.

This is good and was expected.

All effects able to target "Undead Friends" will be able to target the caster as well, if the caster is undead. There will be a few changes to Necrotic Touch to keep this from becoming crazybroken(tm).

Feels a bit strange that a wizard should have unlimited healing in undead form. But it depend ofcource on how powerfull it gets.
I asume that 1d8 hit points +1 per caster level (max +5) would be reasonble if it free.
(That is the same as FvS get for free (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...oul_Ascendency http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Cure_Light_Wounds)
Asuming that enhancment and metamagic works on it.

It sounds to me like necrotic touch will either cost sp to self-heal, or have a reduced effect for healing (likely D6+1 per level) neither of which seems too unbalanced to me.
Yes, a FVS must wait till level 20 to get a similar ability... but that capstone is much more powerful. Think about it.
A fvs does not have to suffer the no divine healing penalty to use it. A fvs can use that ability to heal others as well, and a fvs can use it 100% of the time, not 60%.

Would be realy strange if Wiz Palmaster would get a stronger healing for free then the FvS capstone. So D6+1 per level would be much stronger then the FvS capstone when it comes to healing.
The best would be from a balance point of view would be if the damage from the "unlimeted" necrotic touch would be higher then the healing. If they are the same the healing would be to strong or the damage to low.

[Monkey_Archer]

Would be realy strange if Wiz Palmaster would get a stronger healing for free then the FvS capstone. So D6+1 per level would be much stronger then the FvS capstone when it comes to healing.

Oops, meant to put (max +5) in there.. in which case it would be weaker then the FVS capstone due to lack of empower healing and possible healing amplification.

[Sarezar]

Can we also not be locked in a 3 min mode with no return, as if our minds are possessed by an evil spirit, please?

We're powerful Wizards who have mastered the necromantic arts through intensive studies, not some crazy Sorcerers who gave their souls to spirits out of this plane in exchange for power

(I mean, let us exit undead mode if we want, and keep the 5 minute timer in between)

[Mistinarperadnacles]

IMO likely fix is that Necrotic Touch has no effect on undead, which includes the Pale Master. Then it can remain as decent as it currently is, but remove the healing with it issue. (heh... crazybroken (tm) )