Monk splash on rogue build - what to consider?

[chaos_master]

With the equipment I have yet to acquire for TR becoming less and less, I need some advice on the build I have planned out. Namely, it's going to be a 19 rog/1 monk or 18 rog/1-2 monk/1 (something else if one monk level is enough). The original idea was to take advantage of the additional AC from Wisdom, Toughness from Monk and the good save boost. However, I'm pretty sure there's lots more to be taken advantage of or to be wary of with a monk splash and any advice will be appreciated.

Opinions on what can be gained/lost from going 19 rog/1 monk, 18 rog/2 monk or 18 rog/1 monk/1 ??? will also be very welcome and repped accordingly

[Therigar]

19 rogue/1 monk gives you the WIS bonus to AC, +2 HP, +2 to all saves and 1 additional feat.

18 rogue/2 monk gives you +2 HP, +1 to all saves and another feat plus it opens up a +1 WIS enhancement at the cost of 1d6 backstab.

18 rogue/1 monk/1 something gives you the WIS bonus to AC, +2 HP from monk, +2 to all saves, 1 additional feat from monk plus anything the third class brings.

I could make arguments for or against just about any of the classes if going 18/1/1.

Ranger -- +2 HP, +2 Fort & Reflex saves, melee weapons, some wand use, bow strength and favored enemy (evil outsiders would be my choice).
Fighter -- +4 HP, +2 Fort save, melee weapons, 1 extra feat.
Paladin -- +4 HP, +1 AC (aura, doesn't stack with pocket paladin), +3 Fort & +1 Reflex saves, melee weapons and some wand use.
Favored Soul -- +2 HP, +2 to all saves, class feat and some wand use.
Cleric -- +2 HP, +2 to Fort & Will saves and clerical wand use.
Wizard -- -2 HP, +2 to Will saves, class feat and arcane wand use.
Sorcerer -- -2 HP, +2 to Will saves and arcane wand use.

Popular choices would be sorcerer for warforged characters and any of ranger, paladin, favored soul or cleric for others.

[chaos_master]

I can see myself sacrificing 1d6 SA damage for another feat and higher saves, so it's shaping up to be an 18/1/1. What about monk special abilities? Stances, enhancements 'n' stuff? Never played one so no idea what they're about.

And thanks for the previous post. +1 rep

[richieelias]

Ranger is D8 and only +2 hp over rogue. Not that it is even a big deal or anything.

As far as monk stances, you get as much as you can with 1 level as you would with 2. You need 3 monk levels for fists of light's self heal, but keep in mind you would be limiting yourself to kama's, fists or quarterstaves if you wanted to make use of any special attacks/stances. These all have absolutely horrid crit rates.

[Therigar]

So it is. Changed it in original post.

[Therigar]

Monk stances require minimum stats. Air is DEX 12, Earth is CON 12, Fire is STR 12 and Water is WIS 12. This gets you the lowest level stance for that type with L1 monk. Each stance trades stat points in one area for an increase in a different stat. Air increases DEX and decreases CON, Earth increases CON and decreases DEX, Fire increases STR and decreases WIS while Water increases WIS and decreases STR.

The stat increase/decrease is 2 points and only 1 stance can be active at once. If you have a spare enhancement to toss at them then a 2 point increase in DEX or WIS might be worthwhile. Just be aware of which stat drops when the stance is active.

[shenthing]

Doh! N'mind

[Arkat]

2 Levels of Monk also give you +1 Wis and +5 Hitpoints.

Both of these are from Enhancements (Monk's Wisdom I and Way of the Tortoise I) that you can only take at 2nd level Monk.

[Cyr]

Op don't worry about the stances, you will not be using them 99% of the time with a 18 or 19 rogue. It's all about the rapiers. For the rare str based rogue with monk splash Quarter Staff is pretty neat and then you do use the stance.

[D'rin]

You also loose from that one lvl of rogue -1 dc on assassinate if you are that path and one class feat which would most likely be skill mastery so -1 to all skills not huge but something to think about.

I would either go 2 monk or 1 monk/1 fighter,ranger or pally. The arcanes really don't give you that much vs the other 2 splashes.

[chaos_master]

For the rare str based rogue with monk splash Quarter Staff is pretty neat and then you do use the stance.

I am so going Dwarven Axe + Rad II Scimi/another Dwarven Axe on this build STR based is a certainty and would've been my next big question - does that kind of build take good advantage of the monk class? Right now, I see my endgame DEX as something around 26-28.

[Therigar]

The arcanes really don't give you that much vs the other 2 splashes.

Unless you happen to be warforged.

[chaos_master]

Thanks for the input everyone, that +1 Wisdom enhancement pretty much made my mind up, with the starting ability scores I've planned. As such, 18 Rog/2 Monk it is I've got a ton of other questions (TR is srs business), but I'll try and get most sorted before posting the build and asking advice.

Just one last thing: Can a STR based rogue build (starting with 14 DEX, 13 WIS) get a decent enough armor class with 2 monk levels to justify taking them in the first place? With enhancements these go to 16 DEX, 14 WIS, add +6 items and possibly +2 tomes and those are up to 24 DEX and 22 WIS.