New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[Orry]

In the past the frequent retort from Turbine on things like this was that the change was being driven by analysis of EXIT surveys from those players who decided to leave the game. At some level, they can presume that everyone still in the game is at least happy enough with what they have to stay around. Those who are leaving, why? If it could be fixed (whatever cause was being cited) then perhaps those customers could be enticed to have stayed with the game.

We are not privy to either the results of those surveys or the volume of them. I do hope they factor in the "econmic value" of the opinion that is leaving. The lost revenue of a VIP, Premium or freeloader, is very different. VIP is a constant revenue stream that can serve as a baseline. Premium provides spurts of income as play and demand (and new things) come into the game. Make nothing new, and the revenue from the Premium portion of the player base will dwindle a lot (but new stuff carries development cost.) The income levels to Turbine would be most sensitive in this area, so to keep that revenue stream up, you need to keep new stuff flowing (which helps to retain VIP's as well.) A freeloader is just a potential revenue source, but unless they have actually morphed into a Premium grade account, they are still a net 0 on the bottom line (and perhaps a net -x due to server loads, etc...)

Game mechanic changes like Grazing hits, were purported to be the result of too many exiting players complaining about how hard it was to hit monsters in the game. What many long time players suspect, is that the actual to hit numbers were fine, but that what many new players were experiencing were a combination of factors. Not being close enough to the target to hit with your weapon (depending on how you have your game set up, it can be easy to misjudge how close (or not) you really are.) It could have been running behind a mob and missing (client/server lag and true position offset so that while it looks like you are close enough, the server figures the mob is really another half step ahead of you and you whiff.) Not using suitable facing so the 120 arc infront of you is not used. I have seen new players swing away madly, and continually miss....the mobs attacking them from behind. Not sure how other games work it, but facing is really important in DDO. All those things were probably as big if not bigger source of missing than just not having enough attack bonus.

That made it confusing to many vets? Missing? How are you missing? Then we hear the tales of the low strength wizard swinging the greataxe and having trouble. It seems clear then that many players never look at any of the details of how the game or ruleset even works, and just want a toon to mash mobs with. So we get grazing hits, so even the most borked build can manage to hit/hurt no matter how slightly any mob in the game at least a high percentage of the time.

So I suspect, they were getting a lot of exit complaints about how the quests were too hard...too hard for the those who also had the issues above...

A completely free player can still lead to revinue due to his or her friends learning about the game.

[Zenako]

A completely free player can still lead to revinue due to his or her friends learning about the game.

Only if any of those friends goes beyond FtP and spends money and becomes Premium. Even with a thousand friends, a thousand times zero is still zero. At some point the cost of providing the free service has to be paid for by someone. Keep in mind that I draw a distinct line between the three groups. VIP, Premium, and FtP. It is entirely possible for some Premium players to be spending more in the past 4 months than most VIPs have, so even thou they are not paying for their "playtime" and that is "free", they are not FtP, but a Premium Account.

Supporting the game with $$...good. I do my part, I have had 2 VIP accounts for years now. Premium players are good. Eternal FtP add nothing to Turbines bottom line.

[Tiggyr]

Supporting the game with $$...good. I do my part, I have had 2 VIP accounts for years now. Premium players are good. Eternal FtP add nothing to Turbines bottom line.

I'm assuming you have a background in demographic analysis and microtransaction business fundamentals? I'd wager that, you know, turbine might have some idea how to run a MMO now.

And heck its something *I* am looking forward to and *I* am a paying customer. Roll on fun times! Deju vu much? Instead of all you peeps telling Turbine how to make money - why not submit a job application directly telling them just how smart how are and how much better run things were if you were in charge...

[Zenako]

I'm assuming you have a background in demographic analysis and microtransaction business fundamentals? I'd wager that, you know, turbine might have some idea how to run a MMO now.

And heck its something *I* am looking forward to and *I* am a paying customer. Roll on fun times! Deju vu much? Instead of all you peeps telling Turbine how to make money - why not submit a job application directly telling them just how smart how are and how much better run things were if you were in charge...

I am not sure what your point was?

VIP pays a monthly fee to play.

Premium is an EX VIP or a FtP that has UPGRADED status to Premimum by paying for something.

FtP "pure" has not paid one red cent to Turbine for anything, ever.

If you can make a game that thrives on players who never pay you any money (pure FtP) I would love to see the numbers on how that works.

[Tiggyr]

So again, all I'm sayin' is. "Hey you Turbine - yes you you sexy thing, come over here - this casual play idea of yours is turning me on! (in a purely plutonic way - you know - we're just friends of course and I'm cool with that unless... you're cool with it being something more?)"...

[quickgrif]

So again, all I'm sayin' is. "Hey you Turbine - yes you you sexy thing, come over here - this casual play idea of yours is turning me on! (in a purely plutonic way - you know - we're just friends of course and I'm cool with that unless... you're cool with it being something more?)"...

You are making zero sense in your post. People come on here talking about the pros and cons and you are talking like you want to make love to the game lol.

[Chai]

I am not sure what your point was?

VIP pays a monthly fee to play.

Premium is an EX VIP or a FtP that has UPGRADED status to Premimum by paying for something.

FtP "pure" has not paid one red cent to Turbine for anything, ever.

If you can make a game that thrives on players who never pay you any money (pure FtP) I would love to see the numbers on how that works.

Incorrect.

Most of the FTP people I play with, and there are quite a few, have bought point bundles so they can open most of the NON FTP content, buy warforged, favored soul, etc...

Having done the research, I know that the average FTP player has spent MORE, yes, MORE money than paid sub players have over the short time they have been playing. Now before you go denying this out of hand, take a look at the logic involved.

A VIP playing for the last 2 months has spent ~30 dollars on DDO

A FTP playing for the same amount of time buys a couple point bundles. This can be up to 100 dollars to buy almost all VIP chain quests and slayer zones, classes, races, etc.

This will soon mitigate itself as once a FTP player has all the content they want unlocked, they dont NEED to pay anymore. This is not saying they will not pay for points from time to time, but it becomes un-necessary to do so.

The marketing on this could not have been more perfect from the standpoint of getting a temporary cash boost from the high number of new players who have joined. This is cash Turbine would not have seen otherwise, so it does not hurt their financial strategy even if they went FTP and no one made an FTP account accross all servers, they still lose nothing. The word FREE takes the cake in marketing strategy every time.

Making a rigid absolute statement like "FtP "pure" has not paid one red cent to Turbine for anything, ever", is laughably refutable. Who here knows at least one FTP player that paid for content?

[quickgrif]

Incorrect.

Most of the FTP people I play with, and there are quite a few, have bought point bundles so they can open most of the NON FTP content, buy warforged, favored soul, etc...

Having done the research, I know that the average FTP player has spent MORE, yes, MORE money than paid sub players have over the short time they have been playing. Now before you go denying this out of hand, take a look at the logic involved.

A VIP playing for the last 2 months has spent ~30 dollars on DDO

A FTP playing for the same amount of time buys a couple point bundles. This can be up to 100 dollars to buy almost all VIP chain quests and slayer zones, classes, races, etc.

This will soon mitigate itself as once a FTP player has all the content they want unlocked, they dont NEED to pay anymore. This is not saying they will not pay for points from time to time, but it becomes un-necessary to do so.

The marketing on this could not have been more perfect from the standpoint of getting a temporary cash boost from the high number of new players who have joined. This is cash Turbine would not have seen otherwise, so it does not hurt their financial strategy even if they went FTP and no one made an FTP account accross all servers, they still lose nothing. The word FREE takes the cake in marketing strategy every time.

Making a rigid absolute statement like "FtP "pure" has not paid one red cent to Turbine for anything, ever", is laughably refutable. Who here knows at least one FTP player that paid for content?

Ummm FTP who buys points becomes a premium player and thus not ftp... think about it.

[Tiggyr]

I'm going to state again. Turbine introducing casual play has nothing to do with a players status, it has nothing to do with how long a person has played the game, it has nothing to do with how much loot the best character has, it has nothing to do with what raids the cool kids are doing these days and the rules they place on the people befor allowing them to join.

What it *is* to do with adding a tasty layer of ham-like, cheese grilled fun to the game for those of us that just want to hop in and out in the few evenings we have free.
Brothers and sisters - casual is for the common man, its for the comman woman, its for the good of the nation and the sanity of all, its for the lazy kid in all of us who built a billycart on a summer evening instead of doing his homework - and most importantly - its about fun.

I strongly urge you to support this motion and vote in favor of casual play this coming November.

Bring the fun I say.

[Zenako]

Ummm FTP who buys points becomes a premium player and thus not ftp... think about it.

Apparently that concept is quite beyond the grasp of some people it seems.

IF YOU HAVE PAID FOR POINTS YOU ARE NO LONGER A FTP PLAYER, but a PREMIUM player. Yes you are not paying a monthly fee, but you have upgraded your account, you have perks that a true FtP does not get. Why is this so hard to understand?

Or is it so vital to hold onto the belief that one is a FtP player and the game is not costing them any recurring fees?

[Tiggyr]

Apparently that concept is quite beyond the grasp of some people it seems.

Perhaps... or perhaps it the fact that I'm asking *what on earth has this got to do with casual play*.

In related news I hear that Hall and Oates are contracted to do the soundtrack for Update 4 (for f2p only though - premium and VIP will get the much less awesome but still inspiring REO Speedwagon).

[Orry]

Apparently that concept is quite beyond the grasp of some people it seems.

IF YOU HAVE PAID FOR POINTS YOU ARE NO LONGER A FTP PLAYER, but a PREMIUM player. Yes you are not paying a monthly fee, but you have upgraded your account, you have perks that a true FtP does not get. Why is this so hard to understand?

Or is it so vital to hold onto the belief that one is a FtP player and the game is not costing them any recurring fees?

But how many players will go without buying anything? Especially the casuals, you wouldn't get very much favour on Casual setting and the favour for Elite is not raised any, and if they are truely the people casual caters to they won't want to grind for enough turbine points to buy new adventure packs, so guess what? They'll either pay or stop putting any more strain on the server.

[omastar444]

But how many players will go without buying anything? Especially the casuals, you wouldn't get very much favour on Casual setting and the favour for Elite is not raised any, and if they are truely the people casual caters to they won't want to grind for enough turbine points to buy new adventure packs, so guess what? They'll either pay or stop putting any more strain on the server.

You, and many others, don't get it. Players will play casual, by dong this they learn the dungeon. After a while they become too strong for casual then do normal and hard and, eventually, elite! So they will get those points but this way they know what their doing in these quests. And in the end isn't that what you want in a PUG? Someone who knows what their doing?

[jwa1975]

I personally think it is a good idea. BTW did they take away Normal/Hard/Elite? No...not my knowledge. So for the pocket protector, always quoting stats, number crunching uber nerd who doesn't have a job or still lives with mommy because playing 18 - 20 hours a day on a MMO is all you know....casual is not for you. No one, including your mommy, will not force you to play that difficulty level. So when you build your next super uber toon and use only hard and elite settings and then only solo until you find your fellow super user friends to group with.

/problem solved

[Rasczak]

But how many players will go without buying anything? Especially the casuals, you wouldn't get very much favour on Casual setting and the favour for Elite is not raised any, and if they are truely the people casual caters to they won't want to grind for enough turbine points to buy new adventure packs, so guess what? They'll either pay or stop putting any more strain on the server.

Most people I have met can afford to be vip but they don't because of responsibility and time. Those people have no problem paying for tp's and unlocking adventure packs but they do have a problem with paying for it then not being able to play it due to grouping, time etc etc.

I don't think it will be a problem. In fact it'll help the store make money purely for the fact that those quests can now be easily completed by a casual solo, duo person. Noone wants to spend money on something they won't be able to use...casual makes it accessible to new players.

I'm not a huge fan of it but I can relate....remember jumping into ToD for the first time and getting your bum handed to you? That's how loads of people feel with most quests. It's not a case of they struggle and wipe near the end....they jump in and get transformed into a soul stone before the buff timers have started counting down

Not something for me but definitely see a bunch of people loving this :/

[Orry]

You, and many others, don't get it. Players will play casual, by dong this they learn the dungeon. After a while they become too strong for casual then do normal and hard and, eventually, elite! So they will get those points but this way they know what their doing in these quests. And in the end isn't that what you want in a PUG? Someone who knows what their doing?

If enough people who like to solo rage-quit when they get to a point where there are no more solo quests....I don't know, they may just want to solo everything they can, then they'll be looking for more quests to do. Some will move up to higher difficulties and that's great. You don't get enough free turbine points without grinding them out though and re-roll after re-roll after re-roll. So the people who actually "need" this difficulty to have fun because they don't want to group will most likely not want to grind favour.

Those that move up and become better players will be an asset to the community and make more players want to play regardless of whether they spend money.

[Chai]

Apparently that concept is quite beyond the grasp of some people it seems.

IF YOU HAVE PAID FOR POINTS YOU ARE NO LONGER A FTP PLAYER, but a PREMIUM player. Yes you are not paying a monthly fee, but you have upgraded your account, you have perks that a true FtP does not get. Why is this so hard to understand?

Or is it so vital to hold onto the belief that one is a FtP player and the game is not costing them any recurring fees?

^^^The concept of a semantic term based arguement and nothing more. If this is the best you can muster up as a counterpoint to FTP / Premium business model being a good thing for Turbine, trying to bog it all down based on term based identification details....its laughable at best. FTL.

Here, I will dumb it all down for all the haters who seem to think FTP is a bad business model.

All the people who joined up due to FTP marketing would have not joined if the game only offered paid SUBs. You see all these new players the Vets keep crying about? They joined up once FTP launched, and not before, and they are quite numerous. They would not be here on a paid sub. Any money, and I mean <<ANY>> money Turbine makes on these people at all is money ON TOP OF what they would have made with just a paid sub system, because, again, these people would_not_be_here_on_paid_subs.

How many of these people who are FTP do you think will stay FTP and never buy points? So far, the research that has been done (yes this is searchable on the interwebs) shows that most players have purchased at least one bundle of points. Turbine would never have seen these purchases if they kept up to their paid sub only routine, due to the fact that these people would not even have joined.

How some people can interpret adjusting payment conditions to generate customer revenue that was not possible under previous conditions as a loss is beyond me. If this post doesnt make sense to you, anything else I could say to justify my point also will go in one ear and out the other. Understanding microtransaction business models 101. Class dismissed. Next.

[Zenako]

OK I have NEVER in any of my posts stated anything you accuse me off. You and others have chosen to infer many things. Find where I ever claimed that FtP was a bad business model. You can look thru my posts but you will not find it.

What I have said, is that there are 3 (three) tiers of players in DDO today.

1) VIP = Currently paying a monthly stipend to Turbine to play the game = good for Turbine

2) Premium = Used to pay a monthly stipend (old player) or has paid money into the DDO Store in new DDO and has sent intermitent revenue to Turbine = good for Turbine

3) FtP = someone trying out the game (on a more expansive basis in some ways than the old 10 day free trial, but also limited in what you can do a bit more). Those players Turbines hopes to convert to Premium or VIP. If they convert into a type 1 or 2 player, then thats GOOD for Turbine.

IF they never convert and never spend any money, that is BAD for Turbine. I don't know about you, but I would be very hard pressed to run a business where I just gave away my product and never got paid. Many business give out free samples all the time, as a loss leader in the hopes of getting a paying customer. The new DDO model is an excellent loss leader in that it gives players a lot of time to get into the game and consider getting into it even more and actually spend money to upgrade to Premium or VIP.

The only players who are actually FtP are those who never spend any money. Once you have spent money on the game, it is no longer free, get it.

[Chai]

IF they never convert and never spend any money, that is BAD for Turbine. I don't know about you, but I would be very hard pressed to run a business where I just gave away my product and never got paid. Many business give out free samples all the time, as a loss leader in the hopes of getting a paying customer. The new DDO model is an excellent loss leader in that it gives players a lot of time to get into the game and consider getting into it even more and actually spend money to upgrade to Premium or VIP.

The only players who are actually FtP are those who never spend any money. Once you have spent money on the game, it is no longer free, get it.

The percentage of people who started playing after MOD 9 dropped and have NOT spent money is very low. Most have bought at least one point bundle. As these people joined only after the game was made "free" they would not have been here if Turbine kept up its old sub only game, which means this is money made on top of the already paid sub clients, for the win. There is no product being "given away". People are paying for it in one way shape or form. Sure there will be a few who try it out and dont pay for it, but they will get nowhere unless they farm for points in order to unlock higher level content. Most are paying for it if not already a sub. People who try the point farming path will be passed up by their point bundle purchasing friends / guildies. This is ALREADY a low percentage of the people who joined after MOD 9.

The new DDO model is an excellent loss leader in that it gives players a lot of time to get into the game and consider getting into it even more and actually spend money to upgrade to Premium or VIP.

Its only a loss leader if its a loss, and its only a loss if they have to crank out another server to support the population without having made enough money to do so, which isnt the case. There is no physical product being given out here. The current servers are more populated, and so is Turbines pocketbook due to the new promotional strat.

[Corebreach]

A completely free player can still lead to revinue due to his or her friends learning about the game.

Free players may also keep the game's population above critical mass. There need to be sufficient other players for VIPs and Premiums to interact with, else some will quit in frustration at rarely finding teams.

It is possible for a person to give Turbine $0 and still increase their revenue.