New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[abull74]

Why do we need casual? If a group of newbies cant get through ww on normal, then they just need to rethink what game they want to play.

There are arguements that we elitists twink our lowbies to get through the low lvls, but yet I can solo ww on normal at lvl 2-3 with only the Korthos gear. You new players who say its "easy for you twinked out vets" are sadly mistaken. It is EASY for anyone who has been playing for as long as we have, twinked or not.

It is all about skill and experience. I am sorry to say this, but if you can't get a group of lvl 2-4s through ww after completing all of Korthos, that is just sad. You should maybe run Korthos a few more times and up your skills some more.

I have had players (new players), run with me through harbor quests and they have the same starter gear I have. They wipe and I collect stones and zerg through. They ask, " what gear do you have" and my reply, " same as you". It all comes down to experience. I have run the quests for 4 yrs. I know what to do.

Dont add casual plz!! It will only cause even worse players to join our ranks. Yea, I know not all of the new players are gonna only run casual, and not all of the new players are bad players. But, I feel like if you cant make it on normal, then you just need to play another game.

How is it that we(vets) survived just fine in the beginning, but today no one can make it past the harbor without crying about it being tough? Is it really that hard? Do you really need to dumb it down more than you already have? What is it with Turbine catering to the helpless and whiney? You are going to make this into another Run of the mill free mmo.

We had , still have?, a great game. Turbine is making a mistake with this I believe. And i have heard the Save the Game arguement enough. The F2P are not saving the game. Its the F2P that sucks in the new subscribers. Its the new subscribers that are helping the game. I feel like if you are not a subscriber, then you are no help at all to Turbine. I am paying for this game, not you. So Turbine should worry more about making me happy than the F2P crybabys that cant survive the tutorial!

TO HE** WITH CASUAL!!!

I AM THE FPOON!!!

[quickgrif]

Okay. People who are complaining about Casual difficulty: Come on and post something worthwhile without name calling.

Many have pointing out their opinion plain and simple.

[Tiggyr]

Why do we need casual? If a group of newbies cant get through ww on normal, then they just need to rethink what game they want to play.

...I am paying for this game, not you. So Turbine should worry more about making me happy than the F2P crybabys that cant survive the tutorial!
!

This is the best satire I've read in ages... you write for the daily show or something?

[Catholicon]

Why do we need casual? If a group of newbies cant get through ww on normal, then they just need to rethink what game they want to play.

There are arguements that we elitists twink our lowbies to get through the low lvls, but yet I can solo ww on normal at lvl 2-3 with only the Korthos gear. You new players who say its "easy for you twinked out vets" are sadly mistaken. It is EASY for anyone who has been playing for as long as we have, twinked or not.

It is all about skill and experience. I am sorry to say this, but if you can't get a group of lvl 2-4s through ww after completing all of Korthos, that is just sad. You should maybe run Korthos a few more times and up your skills some more.

I have had players (new players), run with me through harbor quests and they have the same starter gear I have. They wipe and I collect stones and zerg through. They ask, " what gear do you have" and my reply, " same as you". It all comes down to experience. I have run the quests for 4 yrs. I know what to do.

Dont add casual plz!! It will only cause even worse players to join our ranks. Yea, I know not all of the new players are gonna only run casual, and not all of the new players are bad players. But, I feel like if you cant make it on normal, then you just need to play another game.

How is it that we(vets) survived just fine in the beginning, but today no one can make it past the harbor without crying about it being tough? Is it really that hard? Do you really need to dumb it down more than you already have? What is it with Turbine catering to the helpless and whiney? You are going to make this into another Run of the mill free mmo.

We had , still have?, a great game. Turbine is making a mistake with this I believe. And i have heard the Save the Game arguement enough. The F2P are not saving the game. Its the F2P that sucks in the new subscribers. Its the new subscribers that are helping the game. I feel like if you are not a subscriber, then you are no help at all to Turbine. I am paying for this game, not you. So Turbine should worry more about making me happy than the F2P crybabys that cant survive the tutorial!

TO HE** WITH CASUAL!!!

I AM THE FPOON!!!

How dare you dictate who can and can't play a game? Nobody is forcing you do play Casual, or to group with new and inexperienced players.

Perhaps if these people had 4 years of experience they could solo WW on normal too, don't think for one second you have the right to penalise them for being new to a game you were a n00b at 4 years previously, too.

Let people learn how to play the game by themselves the way they want to. Casual difficulty is for people who want to have FUN. Just because you enjoy a challenge doesn't mean you have the right to force people to chore through frustrating quests simply because they've not been playing for 4 years and can do them blindfolded.

[quickgrif]

Yes, for a completely twinked level 4 vet character with carniflex and addy armour etc casual might not mean much of a challange... but a has been said numerous times - nothings being taken away from them - they can still lolo-elite WW if they so desire.
I think another point that should be made is that the type of people who casual will appeal to are not *really* the type who'll be trawlling the forums to champion such a change. And this is the type of change that *will* add to the enjoyment of the game for them.
All those vets worried about raiding with an inexperienced PUG who got there through casual should ask themselves "Hey wait a minute - sure that would be bad - but how often do *I PICK UP GROUP FOR A FREAKING HOUND RAID ANYWAYS?!*"
By 14 up I would think all good raiders are part of a guild anyways, and if not then I'm sure they're used to the fact that P.U.Grouping never works anyway!

First of all most vets don't need said equipment to solo normal so the myth about it being the gear at lower lvls is bunk.

At higher lvls gear comes into play true but at lower lvls its experience gained by practice.

And casual will effect pug raiding which unlike what you are thinking many vets do. Flagging on casual you will then want to run the raid and oh wait a minute no casual raid mode so got to run with a pug on normal... yeah that will not be pretty.

[quickgrif]

How dare you dictate who can and can't play a game? Nobody is forcing you do play Casual, or to group with new and inexperienced players.

Perhaps if these people had 4 years of experience they could solo WW on normal too, don't think for one second you have the right to penalise them for being new to a game you were a n00b at 4 years previously, too.

Let people learn how to play the game by themselves the way they want to. Casual difficulty is for people who want to have FUN. Just because you enjoy a challenge doesn't mean you have the right to force people to chore through frustrating quests simply because they've not been playing for 4 years and can do them blindfolded.

Umm to be honest this game was much harder when many vets learned so thats bull as far as not being able to do ww on normal. It is a team game and I noticed the problem was some new players don't work together and crash and burn because of it.

Why not learn to play the game and improve your game play? Already scaling is in place to make quest new player friendly and solo friendly (though it is supposed to be a team game). I still think they need to get rid of scaling if they are implementing this it's overkill.

[abull74]

You missed my point. Normal is NOT a challenge. So I see no point in making a casual setting. It makes no sense. I find it is a waste of resources.

And i never said you CANT play the game. I said if you cant handle normal(NO CHALLENGE HERE) then you should find another game to play.


I AM THE FPOON!!!

[Turtlsdown]

Maybe what it boils down to is this:

Vets don't want the "casual" setting because it will attract new players who are very *weak* in their DDO skills (or maybe MMO skills, or even Gaming skills overall). But I'm willing to bet THAT IS EXACTLY what Turbine wants becase More Players (of any kind) = More Opportunities to Make $$$. Guys, you just have to deal with it. If they stop trying to get any and all players to join and maybe spend some moolah here or there (even someone who plays f2p and never spends a cent, might tell a friend or family member about how much fun the game is and THEY might spend some dough), then the game might end for everyone sooner than later. At least the Casual setting isn't something that is forcing anyone else to have to use unless they want to, so it's really not so bad if you think about it.

Some of you may have played the game for years and years and years just *fine* well... obviously it wasn't all fine since Turbine is scrambling to change the system every update to get more and more people to join (making the game easier and easier). I think that the old system while superior in challenge (I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, I agree with it) was not what is now required to keep the servers running and the lights on.

[Tiggyr]

First of all most vets don't need said equipment to solo normal so the myth about it being the gear at lower lvls is bunk.

Yeah... thats why I said solo elite if they want - not solo normal...
Its interesting that the way hard core players see as being optimal play at high level raids effects their thinking/demands on how casual players should play on non raid quests... selfish much?

[quickgrif]

Yeah... thats why I said solo elite if they want - not solo normal...
Its interesting that the way hard core players operate in raids at high levels affects their thinking on how casual players should play on non rai quests... selfish much?

And it's sad that someone comes in here whining about how the game should be made easier because they don't want to put the effort to learn the game. And of course everyone else is selfish but yourself.

[Tiggyr]

...they don't want to put the effort to learn the game. And of course everyone else is selfish but yourself.

Put in the effort to *learn the game*?! When did it become a darned job? I thought it was meant to be fun? Casual might make it more fun for some people - that a bad thing? Its not about "learing the game" or passing some exam that you might submit them to before they join your PUG (though you may feel free to impliment that if you're a party leader). Its about making it more fun for those who dont have the hours to grind out a greensteel or raid infinetly till they get the stats combo they want.

Never said I wasn't selfish - if i could have my way you'd be able to buy UMD points!

[Orry]

I'm new and I don't find normal challenging, maybe with this change they should add to the difficulty of normal and hard, at least to the point where a group is highly recommended, because frankly for the regular quests, grouping usually isn't worth people's time.

(Although with casual I probably would do casual at-level, normal at +1 levels, hard at +2, etc.)

[quickgrif]

Maybe what it boils down to is this:

Vets don't want the "casual" setting because it will attract new players who are very *weak* in their DDO skills (or maybe MMO skills, or even Gaming skills overall). But I'm willing to bet THAT IS EXACTLY what Turbine wants becase More Players (of any kind) = More Opportunities to Make $$$. Guys, you just have to deal with it. If they stop trying to get any and all players to join and maybe spend some moolah here or there (even someone who plays f2p and never spends a cent, might tell a friend or family member about how much fun the game is and THEY might spend some dough), then the game might end for everyone sooner than later. At least the Casual setting isn't something that is forcing anyone else to have to use unless they want to, so it's really not so bad if you think about it.

Some of you may have played the game for years and years and years just *fine* well... obviously it wasn't all fine since Turbine is scrambling to change the system every update to get more and more people to join (making the game easier and easier). I think that the old system while superior in challenge (I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, I agree with it) was not what is now required to keep the servers running and the lights on.

You can still draw new players in and keep some standards. And just because you draw more ftp players in, my not equal more money coming in if you start to have a faster attrition rate due to quality of the product.

[abull74]

Put in the effort to *learn the game*?! When did it become a darned job? I thought it was meant to be fun? Casual might make it more fun for some people - that a bad thing? Its not about "learing the game" or passing some exam that you might submit them to before they join your PUG (though you may feel free to impliment that if you're a party leader). Its about making it more fun for those who dont have the hours to grind out a greensteel or raid infinetly till they get the stats combo they want.

Never said I wasn't selfish - if i could have my way you'd be able to buy UMD points!

Again, it is coming down to loot. What is the point in playinig the game to lvl cap if you are not gonna have the gear to sustain yourself? You will have to learn the game if you expect to survive in higher lvls. Casual does nothing to prepare you for end game content or raids. So there is no point in having it.

I feel casual is a detriment to DDO. It will make the players lazy. Whats next? laid back difficulty? Then we could go with "I drank all night and have an uber hangover so my eyes hurt and i cant see straight with all the bright lights and the smell of breakfast cooking is making my stomach turn so lets do this super fast" difficulty.

I mean why not right? Then you could play deaf, dumb and blind and not have a challenge at all. Lets add a Helen Keller diff for those of you that need easier than normal.

Normal is not a challenge.
NORMAL is not a challenge.
NORMAL is NOT a challenge.
NORMAL IS NOT A CHALLENGE!!!

I AM THE FPOON!!!

[Orry]

Again, it is coming down to loot. What is the point in playinig the game to lvl cap if you are not gonna have the gear to sustain yourself? You will have to learn the game if you expect to survive in higher lvls. Casual does nothing to prepare you for end game content or raids. So there is no point in having it.

I feel casual is a detriment to DDO. It will make the players lazy. Whats next? laid back difficulty? Then we could go with "I drank all night and have an uber hangover so my eyes hurt and i cant see straight with all the bright lights and the smell of breakfast cooking is making my stomach turn so lets do this super fast" difficulty.

I mean why not right? Then you could play deaf, dumb and blind and not have a challenge at all. Lets make add a Helen Keller diff for those of you that need easier than normal.

I AM THE FPOON!!!

I prefer Tommy for my deaf, dumb and blind gaming needs, after all he had such a supple wrist.

Tommy is an album by The Who, if you don't know.

[krud]

Umm to be honest this game was much harder when many vets learned so thats bull as far as not being able to do ww on normal. It is a team game and I noticed the problem was some new players don't work together and crash and burn because of it. true, but the learning curve is definitely harder than most games. It is a game afterall, not a feakin fraternity initiation.

Why not learn to play the game and improve your game play? Already scaling is in place to make quest new player friendly and solo friendly (though it is supposed to be a team game). I still think they need to get rid of scaling if they are implementing this it's overkill. Scaling is for solo or smaller groups. This is for full groups who just wanna experience a quest without any trouble.

.

This is by no means an easy button. With ~50% less xp than normal, it is going to be a looooooooooooong process getting anyone up past level 10 on casual play alone. Anyone putting any kind of effort into leveling is going to have to run quite a few quests on harder difficulties. Very few people will stick to casual play, as they will quickly tire of the slow progression, and those who do will probably never run into the veteran players who worry that these guys are gonna riun all of their raids.

btw - how is this any different than vets zerging newbs thru low level quests? That is probably a much worse for them than casual play. The vets do all the work. The newbs learn nothing, except how to run fast, and they get full xp. Can any of you vets who oppose this easy button say that you never allow newbs to glom on to your zerg-fest, power leveling runs?

[abull74]

This is by no means an easy button. With ~50% less xp than normal, it is going to be a looooooooooooong process getting anyone up past level 10 on casual play alone. Anyone putting any kind of effort into leveling is going to have to run quite a few quests on harder difficulties. Very few people will stick to casual play, as they will quickly tire of the slow progression, and those who do will probably never run into the veteran players who worry that these guys are gonna riun all of their raids.

btw - how is this any different than vets zerging newbs thru low level quests? That is probably a much worse for them than casual play. The vets do all the work. The newbs learn nothing, except how to run fast, and they get full xp. Can any of you vets who oppose this easy button say that you never allow newbs to glom on to your zerg-fest, power leveling runs?

So why add it to the game at all then?

I AM THE FPOON!!!

[krud]

So why add it to the game at all then?

I AM THE FPOON!!!

very few will stick exclusively to casual play is what I meant. That is not to say they won't run casual from time to time. It's always an option.

[quickgrif]

.

This is by no means an easy button. With ~50% less xp than normal, it is going to be a looooooooooooong process getting anyone up past level 10 on casual play alone. Anyone putting any kind of effort into leveling is going to have to run quite a few quests on harder difficulties. Very few people will stick to casual play, as they will quickly tire of the slow progression, and those who do will probably never run into the veteran players who worry that these guys are gonna riun all of their raids.

btw - how is this any different than vets zerging newbs thru low level quests? That is probably a much worse for them than casual play. The vets do all the work. The newbs learn nothing, except how to run fast, and they get full xp. Can any of you vets who oppose this easy button say that you never allow newbs to glom on to your zerg-fest, power leveling runs?

Learning curve is steeper because Turbine needs to clean its tutorial up to help explain things like lfg and auction and mail system. Not to mention the poor description method for many of the skills, feats, spells and so forth.

[Tiggyr]

I feel casual is a detriment to DDO. It will make the players lazy.

I'm assuming you champions of challenge are all permadeath guilds right. RIGHT?!
If not - you're being lazy!

Heaven forbit there should be an option button quests that says "fun" or "exploration mode" or "casual" or anything like that... cause everones here for uber loot raids and high end grind...

Well I'm not here for that, I'm here for fun! And I'm proud to put up my hand fellow DDOers and say "I am lazy!"
I'm drawing a line in the sand! Its time to stand up (if you can) fellow casual gamers and say - no greensteel for me! No superior potency VII! I'll get by at level 10 (as it gets hard after that) in my korthos gear without having to ransack elite tempest spine or camp the Auction house!

Now is the time fellow DDOers that all lazy men should stand up (or stay sitting its all good) and be counted. To climb to the top of that hill (or leather ottoman) and state with pride "I am lazy - but here I am!" (Or at least think about doing it)
To cry without shame into that dark night of the unending years while we pat our beer bellies:

"I used to raid and do corpse runs in EQ, you youngsters, but darn it all those days are behind me... I have a family now!"