New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[JOTMON]

Makes sense to add an easy mode.

For those players that are truely casual players.
They typically dont have uber loot no greensteel items, no named gear.

Perhaps even the Permadeath groups.
I give credit to the ones that can play permadeath toons and stick to the values of you only use what you find in quests, these players restrict themselves from buying and selling at the AH, don't accept gifts, only transfers within the chest are acceptable. Can never get past part 4 of the shroud so no tier 3 crafting. Most don't have opposing elemental weapons or the power 5 weapons. so it is a much more challenging to run quests when you do not have the tools to face difficult and high HP/Dr opponents.

I am too foolhardy a player and often challenge beyond my capabilities. Death is a close personal friend and I visit him far too often ;D.

[Zenako]

Dang it Junts you are on a nice roll the past few days....

Casual setting is a lot easier then Normal Solo with scaling appears it would be. The number of significant mobs appears to be reduced, as well as their atributes. (For example: Landslide had between 62 and 72 HP and only one helper in the area.)

However I also think that the significantly reduced EXP I noted (less than 50% of the normal Base EXP), and reduced favor will be a deterent to some who might otherwise rely on this setting. The Bumps in EXP between Normal, Hard and Elite are only 5-10% on each step, while the drop to Casual is more than 50% less than Normal.

The only effect I see on treasure is since the quest level is dropped by one, the lookup table for random loot will be one level lower. Did not have a chance to run a quest with "fixed drops" like the IQ the other night to see if those were affected.

This could be an issue (in some ways) for quests with flagging drops (like the Refuge) since you can run a full group on Casual and if all you care about are the runes, the actual chest loot and EXP is incidental.

[whysper]

Basically we were having major issues with brand new players to the game mistaking that quests that didn't have a "solo" box on them couldn't be played alone.

But what about brand new leet players? Surely they will mistake "Casual" as something they cannot play.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

That's cool IMO.

I see a lot of posts about new players wanting to solo this game.

In fact, a friend of mine gave up (without tell me he was even playing) because he did not like having to group with people to do quests.

I've never thought this should be a solo game, but if it helps with new players and keep the game going, I'm all for it.

Y'see, new blood keeping the game going is all well and good. When it becomes a solo game with raid loot in the stores and walkthrough quests it's no longer The Game and new blood didn't keep it going, they destroyed it.

[Dirac]

I like this addition. More options for more people is great. We don't have to run them if we find them too easy to be fun. Will we populate raids with people who don't know how to play (more than now)? I doubt it. Good players will figure it out, bad players won't; regardless of settings.

[Thailand_Dan]

I think it's a good idea. Making flagging mechanisms easier sounds great (especially Inferno of the damned). For people who like to solo, this will open up a lot more quests for these guys. I know a lot of people say, this is a grouping game, and people shouldn't play solo-only. To that I have to scratch my head and wonder why? It doesn't hurt you, they are contributing to the game (via subscription or TPs), and it is the way they choose to play.

As to why people would solo in a grouping game, there are many reasons:

- Only have 30 - 60 minutes to play. Better to run a quick quest or do some slayers then worrying about a quest going bad, and having to drop group.

- Unpredictable work schedule - Some people need to be on call (for work or family). When the call comes, they have to go. Choosing to solo instead of grouping is actually being courteous.

- Spotty or slow connection - For over a year, I had a really bad connection which caused me to disconnect every 30 minutes. I could log back on, but it still took about 3 or 4 minutes. Occasionally, I'd get knocked out the quest as well. My thanks to the patient members of the now disbanded guild of Everlasting Loyalty, for putting up with it. But, i rarely jumped into a PuG during this time, as it would have been annoying as hell to everyone in the group. On the few occasions i did, I warned the leader (before joining) and the group (once I joined).

Also, if your connection is slow, you take on A LOT more lag when in a group. Even on a good connection, now, I still lag a bit in Reaver when the bard starts throwing 20 disco balls all over the place.

- Someone is actually paying attention to the forums and are now gun-shy about running a quest they've never done before. With my horrible connection, as mentioned in the above bullet, I soloed the Pit (up to the third furnace) about 10 times before PuGging it. Part of this was there were so few groups running it, but also, I didn't want to worry about disconnecting several times (since it was a long quest), and have people complain about it. So, I did most of it myself, and just called people in right at the end.

To those complaining about an easy button, maybe it is, but I think many people will be able to see a quest on an easier setting first, before joining that group on normal or hard. Sounds good to me. Quests are so much easier the second, third, and fourth time through it. I am a strong believer in "you typically don't know a quest well until you solo it".

Sure, this may cause some raids to get filled with noobs for a while, but that was going to happen anyway as new players move up in level. We've seen them move up the chain already. Korthos and the harbor were a nightmare for a month or two, then the house quests, and now the level 10 - 14 quests. They are coming, like it or not, so this won't change a thing. It might even speed up the learning curve.

[RTN]

I've decided I like the new Casual setting. True, it will allow noobs to stay noobs, so I'll PUG even less than before. However, I'll use it for the Reaver's Refuge flagging quests. I hate that mechanism and the complete "grab your ankles and smile" random crafting system. Using Casual will make it slightly less painful. In this one case, Casual plus scaling = better (Can the quests get nerfed any further for noobs?)

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I've decided I like the new Casual setting. True, it will allow noobs to stay noobs, so I'll PUG even less than before. However, I'll use it for the Reaver's Refuge flagging quests. I hate that mechanism and the complete "grab your ankles and smile" random crafting system. Using Casual will make it slightly less painful. In this one case, Casual plus scaling = better (Can the quests get nerfed any further for noobs?)

Hmmmm, I wonder if SoS will have a casual rating??? If so, at least lots of peeps will have nice armor, lol.

[krud]

A new difficulty has been added to the game: casual! This difficulty is available for most quests in the game now - excellent for smaller parties or players who are struggling with the challenges of a Normal difficulty dungeon!

Isn't that what dungeon scaling was for?

edit - never mind. I see borroro already addressed it here

[Baahb3]

I like this option, at least new players will be able to try quests "more safely" before ruining other players in harder difficulty quests, though it doesn't mean that they won't do it anyway.

The rub here is that I don't see new players running 'normal' now. I see LFM's all the time for quests on hard or 'need elite opener' and then is followed with 'need a guide'.

Heck there was a long thread earlier in the week about Tear of Dhakhan and how they failed and the quest was too hard, but the limiting factor was that the poster stated that it was their first time in the quest so they decided to run it on hard.

From my experiance so far with the new crowd all they want to do is get to that 'elite' setting so they can get better loot and more favor.

Another 'feature' for DDO that I really don't understand nor want.

[uhgungawa]

Isn't that what dungeon scaling was for?

edit - never mind. I see borroro already addressed it here

There's a need for Super Duper Back Scaling

[Baahb3]

A negative spin-off effect might be that pug raiding will be abandoned by experienced players, which would be sad. A nice aspect of DDO is that we have (succesful ) pug raids. This change might WoW:ify raiding - no-one will dare to include an unknown player who very well might never have been in a group in DDO before.

Could not agree more.

[ghortagg]

Why do you think Casuals are stupid ?

I am by no means a hardcore player, but that doesn't mean i don't know how to play group-wise

And if ever i ll do the flag quests of a raid in Easy mode I KNOW THAT I'M NOT READY to do the Raid

-vets know it (obviously)
- most of the player base is aware of that fact
(my accurate standard is: if i can duo hard mode quest flag, i might be useful on Normal Raid)


So stop worrying that newbies are gonna ruin your party because it will be the exact opposite:

if my guild is trying to do a BIG NASTY quest this Week End, Casual Mode will allow me to test it first, to get the tricks and to be a more useful Team Member.

You seem to forget how Hard it is to discover this game. (ie: a long long time ago i had trouble doing Waterworks, now due to 237 completions, i can do do it with 3rd level gimped char)

My point is:

We ALL (vets/newb/casual/others) know that Easy mode won't get you through the Raid
Easy is a nice option to discover/preview quest

[Zenako]

Why do you think Casuals are stupid ?

if my guild is trying to do a BIG NASTY quest this Week End, Casual Mode will allow me to test it first, to get the tricks and to be a more useful Team Member.

But the very fact you are even part of a guild and are running things on Hard as a Duo pushes you out of the class of players the concern is being expressed about. While you self label as casual, most vets probably would just consider you to be a "player", not a power gamer, a a newbie. Players like you are NOT the point of concern. In fact, even that you read the forums pushes above many in the game with respect to game knowledge and skill.

[Baahb3]

Also, so what if people flag quests on Casual. It doesn't make the least bit of difference. A first time through a raid is your first time, regardless of how you got there. Just because you ran with a group through Elite Wizard-King doesn't make you magically better at understanding the DQ raid.

There is absolutely no downside to this. They are merely making DDO more accessible to a broader audience. You do want DDO to keep growing, right?

Original response deleted, Junts said it better than I on page 5.

[techwench]

Why do you think Casuals are stupid ?

Because *some* really are that clueless (myself included sometimes).

And if ever i ll do the flag quests of a raid in Easy mode I KNOW THAT I'M NOT READY to do the Raid

Me too. The first time I did the VON raid, I wasn't ready and I knew it...but luckily some vets invited me into their group and walked a couple of us first-timers through it. Doesn't change the fact that I wasn't ready for it.

HOWEVER, for some people who really *are* that clueless...well...yeah...

(my accurate standard is: if i can duo hard mode quest flag, i might be useful on Normal Raid)

This.

I often 2- or 3-man a lot of stuff with my brother and husband just because we don't know what's coming up and we like to take our time and get to know the nuances of the quest (that, and my husband is antisocial and a bit of a crybaby and quitter, but that's another story). If we can make it through the quest in one piece (more or less) on normal, my brother and I will PUG it on the normal/hard/elite progression.

THIS is why I like the idea of an "easy" mode. I want to get to know the quest. I can hold my husband's crybaby hand through it on easy, while getting to know the quest myself. Then run in PUGs for normal/hard/elite.

Just please, for the love of all things commonsensical, CALL IT WHAT IT IS: EASY

Personally, I find the sugar coating of the term "casual" ridiculous. I don't think people are going to be offended if it's called "easy" - other games do this all the time, and you don't see people complaining.

[Borror0]

/snip

Junts, as much as I like you, that is one hell of a wall of text. You got the TL;DR version?

[Razcar]

You're approaching it pessimistically. It is also allowing to develop skills in order to beat Normal.

What kind of skills? Not needing any buffs? Not having to heal anyone? Not needing Fortification items? Flagging for ToD with your really cool 6 cleric / 6 wiz / 6 bard dual-wielding kamas? I think this change will just make the game more segregated.

It takes away the need to stop and think around late mid-levels, for just a little, that was needed before.

This is a perfect example of when greed blinds good judgement. Reminds me of the Star Wars sequels.

[Favis]

Basically we were having major issues with brand new players to the game mistaking that quests that didn't have a "solo" box on them couldn't be played alone. We also changed it so that what used to be "solo-only" (with some exceptions) is now able to be played with more people. Granted you get less rewards/favor/xp because it's not as tough, but the important part is - play the quests with however many (or few) people you feel like.

Think it's good.

Nice if you have little time but and like to play a caracter that is bad at solo.

[Borror0]

What kind of skills? Not needing any buffs? Not having to heal anyone? Not needing Fortification items? Flagging for ToD with your really cool 6 cleric / 6 wiz / 6 bard dual-wielding kamas? I think this change will just make the game more segregated.

If someone is not skilled enough for Normal, now they got Easy mode.

This way, they can slowly progress through the skill chain without being repelled by failure over failure.