New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[Kalari]

I think exactly the same way

Bad players will be bad players no matter what

In easy mode, beholders will still have their eyes
so there still going to be a learning curve (less hard i admit)

So stop hunting the Casual players down.

PS: Why do you assume that every casual is gonna do Every single quest in Easy mode and never try Normal or Above... ?

I dont assume every casual player will do this and if your not the type player my view on this is addressing you can feel free to ignore the following.

Point blank the last whining thread on how hard the game was, was my indicator on the new mentality filling our game. The guy complained about a quest that has been in the game since launch and the lack of being able to get into shrines even though the store has a item that can open locked doors. The scaling on there should have been simpler since he only went in with 3 others and still because they werent careful went in on hard and did not prepare themselves for being able to open the locked shrines (with a wiz/rog) at that he said hes quitting.

I dont know about you but I say good riddance somethings will never be easy enough for people and sometimes they have to realize that. Its not an attack on all casual types but I see this as giving into those who say "I cant do it make this easy so I can." Instead of "this was rough maybe if I adjust myself I can handle it better."

But as I said I see where the company is going with this now, instead of people figuring out their build issues early on and changing they can now get up to 20 find out the hard way in a solid group (because many will try to join the big guys at 20 and not be used to it) and reincarnate thus bringing turbine money. So im for this anything that brings the game revenue let the gimpies unite.

[ghortagg]

/poke

Cause Normal is to hard for them and that's why they now have Easy.

So i guess You know every playstyle of every toon of all the players ?

Vets are not all good players
Casual are not all bad players

the moot point is:
Nobody forces vets to play on Easy
And Casual players may have good reason to stay casual,

and if some of us like a slow paced entertaing dungeon to have nice gaming night, where is the problem ?

[Gnorbert]

Do the monsters even fight back in the new setting? Because that's about the only way it gets any easier than it already is on Normal.

A bunch of Bugbears standing around with no weapons waving white flags... that sounds really exciting to play. <rollseyes>

[Hendrik]

So i guess You know every playstyle of every toon of all the players ?

Vets are not all good players
Casual are not all bad players

the moot point is:
Nobody forces vets to play on Easy
And Casual players may have good reason to stay casual,

and if some of us like a slow paced entertaing dungeon to have nice gaming night, where is the problem ?

Sorry, humor does not convey well on these forums and looks like you missed it...

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Well, she told you her reason: because the rune lottery is stupid.

???
I don't understand. Endgame content should be easy cause it's too hard to keep up with the powergamer?

[Kalari]

???
I don't understand. Endgame content should be easy cause it's too hard to keep up with the powergamer?

Nah Beherit the reavers lotto is not a powergamers paradise believe me even if they easy up the combat the actual reward is the fubar part of this quest chain. I dont even see the point I dont care if I was able to load in and just poke sorjek and complete the quest, the fact that you can run it even on the highest setting be challenged or trounced and still get a crappy rune that puts lionheart on your armor is annoying.

So while many others will run these quests now that its easier to take down the giant lich dude I wont till they fix the darn ridiculosly random lotto system of crafting. It may breathe life into the refuge for a hot min but once people realize that "casual" will probably drop more runes that give you **** on your armor they will probably go back to ignoring this series of quests.

[ghortagg]

Point blank the last whining thread on how hard the game was, was my indicator on the new mentality filling our game. The guy complained about a quest that has been in the game since launch and the lack of being able to get into shrines even though the store has a item that can open locked doors. The scaling on there should have been simpler since he only went in with 3 others and still because they werent careful went in on hard and did not prepare themselves for being able to open the locked shrines (with a wiz/rog) at that he said hes quitting.

i think you reffering to the Tear of Dakhan thread

i ve manage to clear that quest on normal and hard (on level)
i ve had a rough time (mostly on hard)
but i still get it done
I m a casual but not that much of a terrible player (i hope so)

i think Easy mode is nice addition (ie: to see that, in this quest, you NEED to open doors)

[uhgungawa]

To sum up most of it....

There is not an issue with the casual players as mush as rare drops should not drop and flagging should not apply on Casual Mode

This way they can do the quest, get use to it, the do it on norm+ for flagging and/or drops

[techwench]

/derail on

lol @ Kal's last post. The first time I ran Tear, I 2-manned it with my brother and at first we were like w.t.f no shrine? But then I broke down and grabbed a knock bell from the store to find out what the heck was behind that last locked door. Sure enough, there was the shrine. lol. By that point, I had already res'ed my brother because I didn't want him to lose out on loot (construct got him), but probably could have finished it solo. Yeah...it's fun...except the respawn room. Frustrating when you don't know what to expect, but still fun!

/derail off

[krud]

So dungeon scaling was not easy enough. Then we got Quarter/DD. Now we get noob mode. "Reduced rewards" are meaningless if chests still dropped named items and quests still give pre-raid completion. This will make noob mode the normally run mode for a variety of quests just like normal is now. This will lead to many of the new players out there never learning the basics of the game and being a drag on parties they join for raids. This will make them think raids are super tough and quit in higher numbers. System shock is a great way to get people to quit a game. Before you leveled up and stuff got progressively more difficult. Now, you level up and stuff kind just stays easy sauce forever. All in all a big thumbs down on the continued dumbing down of DDO.

With a -50% xp hit for casual setting do you really think people will be leveling all the way up to raid levels on casual play alone? After a while most newbs will abandon it for harder settings as they see how much more xp they can get.

Actually, I see vets, who are complaining the most about this, as benefitting the most from it. Got a TR'd guy, or guildie who just wants to flag real quick? casual zerg. Looking for named loot, GH relics, Orchard pieces, or just about any other ingredient? casual zerg. Knowing how high level loot runs go, people will always take the path of least resistance. It's not going to be only noobs taking advantage of this, in fact it'll probably be powergamers more often than not (unless drop rates are affected drastically).

[moorewr]

???
I don't understand. Endgame content should be easy cause it's too hard to keep up with the powergamer?

What does a brain-dead random crafting system have to do with keeping up with power gamers? She said she liked the idea of farming runes on casual because she doesn't like the crafting system and, one assumes, repeating it ad nauseum might seem less annoying if it requires less resources.

[Kalari]

/derail on

lol @ Kal's last post. The first time I ran Tear, I 2-manned it with my brother and at first we were like w.t.f no shrine? But then I broke down and grabbed a knock bell from the store to find out what the heck was behind that last locked door. Sure enough, there was the shrine. lol. By that point, I had already res'ed my brother because I didn't want him to lose out on loot (construct got him), but probably could have finished it solo. Yeah...it's fun...except the respawn room. Frustrating when you don't know what to expect, but still fun!

/derail off

And thats no problem Look I realized that to some even normal can be challenging but as you and ghortagg put it you will still go in and try it. You dont come to the forums whining about things being too hard. To me this mode doesnt even cater to you guys because you try.

This mode to me gives into guys like the one I referenced. They will be the ones who think "oh wow this game is cake" causual themselves up to high levels join a raid where its not scaled or easy then come and whine about that to then what? Raid become the target of the easy button? When will it stop? I am not saying dont add this I just am expressing my distaste for it, I think many people have tried to learn this game and gotten a feel for how to play it without it being easy now that learning curve is being straightened out and many who dont want to try will move into the population and really muck things up.

I hope im just being pessimistic though and I admit this.

[kingfisher]

casual? funny name, why not just use easy? or cake? or just sucky? sucky, normal, hard, elite, epic. much better. casual implies laid back not incompetent.

[Shassa]

/poke

Cause Normal is to hard for them and that's why they now have Easy.

Yes, Normal is too hard. At first! At first. We eventually need to get better to be able to pass n/h/e because we want the xp and the favor just like anyone else. And we'd rather have that quest down pat well before we hit that 99% xp penalty, haha.

Let's take the example of the quests in the Inspired Quarter. These are supposedly quests that are easy for their level. Let me tell you, even at 18 they are not easy for a soloer. A team of three as recommended, yeah I can see how they'd be a cakewalk. But darn it, I want to enjoy them too! I have completed one of them and almost a second (keep failing on the last wave of enemies) but there's nothing wrong in my book for being able to enjoy it on Easy, then come back later when you are better prepared.

I get what you're saying as well, Kalari, and don't disagree with a thing you said. However, to say it again, bad players are just bad players. People who don't want to improve their playing skills or equipment won't do it, regardless of the existence of an Easy button.

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion to Tolero who no doubt is following this thread, please ask the devs to notate quests that are impossible to solo through normal means. Even if there's some trick to soloing it, it should be noted so casual players don't waste their time struggling through something that, unknown to them, requires more than one person due to multiple switches or whatever. I'm not talking about quests that are just difficult, I'm talking about quests like Xorian Cypher, The Pit, Tomb of the Burning Heart, Flesh Maker's Laboratory, The Crucible, Maze of Madness etc. Yes, I understand that with superior gear/twitch skills/hirelings that some of these can be done, but without reading spoilers people won't know that and wallow in non-fun futility for hours. Just give us a heads-up.

[THAC0]

Basically we were having major issues with brand new players to the game mistaking that quests that didn't have a "solo" box on them couldn't be played alone. We also changed it so that what used to be "solo-only" (with some exceptions) is now able to be played with more people. Granted you get less rewards/favor/xp because it's not as tough, but the important part is - play the quests with however many (or few) people you feel like.

Ah...so that's why. I had guessed as that was the reason. Welp, like the others have said, more more option to run for XP.

Thanks!

[Zenako]

OK SOS on Casual...

Got careless in the Fire section, and a solo cleric surrounded by 7 Effretti and 2 Fire Elementals cannot move to escape and use her BB with any effect. Since everything out there was more or less Implosion proof, I died. Got thru part one with the Stone Giants ok. Since I usually follow a group spent more time than I should have going in circles a bit. Took a just a bit over 15 on that part (this is more an allaround CLeric, Metas are Quicken, Maximize, Empower Healing), but with enough melee ability that I actually just hammered down the last few giants instead of grabbed a pot.

Ice part was pretty clean, perhaps 10 minutes, and 4 of that was getting a stupid archer right at the end of the bridge who was standing in some of the frost jets who was shooting me. Would melee if I closed, but would not move, and when shooting would keep interrupting the shrining, so I had to kill him.

Feeling emboldened, ran to the first barrier with the Effreets, but again, since I don't often end up in front, realized too late I would have no room for BB killing (most of them were 1/3 to 1/2 wounded from one tick....grrrr. Got surrounded and could not move (7 effreets and 2 fire elementals pretty much blocked the way). 30Point resists were great, but all that did was slow things down a bit...No question I would have been able to handle that part had I not been stupid. Conclusion, solo Casual with a cleric at least, very doable.

(If it matters, first time in on Casual you do get a 25% First Time Bonus...)



On to other matters....

I ended up out in on the Dreaming Dark Isle when I rezed myself....mmmm, the normal quest giver on the docks in the IQ was not there earlier, so I figure this is a glitch.

Check it out and notice someof the NPCs are missing on the island but decide to run a couple of the quests on Casual if they are there and can be opened. Reclaiming Memories, was easy. Once charge on the Spell points, did not use the Shrine like I usually do on Normal. HOWEVER, there was NO pie piece in the end chest... Ran the next one, Mining for Ancient Secrets and when that one was done, I did get a pie piece. So based on VERY limited data, the drop rate might be lowered on Casual...assuming that the DD quests were actually valid builds.

[Junts]

Junts, as much as I like you, that is one hell of a wall of text. You got the TL;DR version?

I like to think it's as effective as a superior inferno 4'd capstoned crit wall of fire vs ignorance.

[Junts]

Yes, Normal is too hard. At first! At first. We eventually need to get better to be able to pass n/h/e because we want the xp and the favor just like anyone else. And we'd rather have that quest down pat well before we hit that 99% xp penalty, haha.

Let's take the example of the quests in the Inspired Quarter. These are supposedly quests that are easy for their level. Let me tell you, even at 18 they are not easy for a soloer. A team of three as recommended, yeah I can see how they'd be a cakewalk. But darn it, I want to enjoy them too! I have completed one of them and almost a second (keep failing on the last wave of enemies) but there's nothing wrong in my book for being able to enjoy it on Easy, then come back later when you are better prepared.

I get what you're saying as well, Kalari, and don't disagree with a thing you said. However, to say it again, bad players are just bad players. People who don't want to improve their playing skills or equipment won't do it, regardless of the existence of an Easy button.

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion to Tolero who no doubt is following this thread, please ask the devs to notate quests that are impossible to solo through normal means. Even if there's some trick to soloing it, it should be noted so casual players don't waste their time struggling through something that, unknown to them, requires more than one person due to multiple switches or whatever. I'm not talking about quests that are just difficult, I'm talking about quests like Xorian Cypher, The Pit, Tomb of the Burning Heart, Flesh Maker's Laboratory, The Crucible, Maze of Madness etc. Yes, I understand that with superior gear/twitch skills/hirelings that some of these can be done, but without reading spoilers people won't know that and wallow in non-fun futility for hours. Just give us a heads-up.

Without the easy button, however, those players used to eventually find it effectively impossible to progress far enough in the game to the point where they could ruin other people's play, because people leveling at the same time learned to avoid them, didn't help them raid flag, and since they could never do it with the 1-2 random people who might join their lfms, they'd never get shroud ready to come ruin your shroud

Now they can, and do.

[AZgreentea]

I want more solo quests/settings

My schedule and daddy duties make it extremely hard to group with others and have no toon above 12th as those almost all require groups or LONG QUESTS that i am unable to sit through without interruptions.

I agree. I am recently married and I can only get about one or two (maybe three) dungeons in before I get the "I need attention" routine (depending on dungeon length).

"Why dont you just get some people together real quick?" you might ask. Well, Since I can only play a few dungeons and I have to drop off quickly to do whatever, I feel guilty about forming a group and then ditching them before the next quest (I always finish unless I die). That means the term "casual" is a very apt name for this difficulty setting. It dosent seem meant for noobs to use to push up their abilities, it seems meant more for players who have less time. Otherwise, I bet it would have been called "Easy". This is DDO's way attracting more "Casual" players into the game.

[rnor6084]

Eh. You leets are funny. Every time a change is made to what you think is YOUR game the fits get pitched, excrement gets thrown on the walls and you wail and moan about how people who arent as leet as you are are ruining YOUR game. Oddly, after your done throwing your fit you all stay anyway. Meh.

It is time some of you come to accept the fact that a lot of people have better things to do with their lives than run Shroud 500 fracking times to totally pimp out their toons or farm Refuge hundreds of times to get that perfect suit of DT armor. Casual is a great addition.