New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[Baahb3]

Casual Mode will allow me to test it first, to get the tricks and to be a more useful Team Member.

How will it? there are less mobs, lower stats on monsters, less damage output from creatures...etc All this does is give you a preview of the quest layout and maybe some insight of what type some of monsters will be.

[Razcar]

If someone is not skilled enough for Normal, now they got Easy mode.

This way, they can slowly progress through the skill chain without being repelled by failure over failure.

I would like it if you couldn't use Casual for flagging or special item farming. As a way to run a high-level quest, for the story, or for getting some first-time content experience, sure. But I really think they should remove both flagging and grind rewards (i.e. anything not from the "normal" loot generator) from quests run on Casual. Or make a Casual raid setting (with no raid loot) that you can flag for by running Casual flagging quests.

[Gleep_Wurp]

now even a blind deaf mute can play and gear up.hey my dog wants to play ddo also can we get a canine setting for the typing impaired? she'd make a great rog her listen and spot is off the charts.is it possible to dumb down this game anymore?i have 5 plat that says yes.everything is now available in the ddo store: get your lvl 20 tr char for the low low price of 5000 turbine points.fully geared with your choice of raid loot just another 5000 points

[ghortagg]

All this does is give you a preview of the quest layout and maybe some insight of what type some of monsters will be.

there's a lot of info there:

where are the traps,
where are the ambushes,
what kind of weapon have i to bring.
Hey what is this new monster i ve never see
how to solve puzzle
in which order activtate the lever

THAT's a whole bunch if usefull info, so i when i ll go i won't be clueless

(ie i remember perfectly a Jungle of Kyber where nobody has a weapon to get Marut down)

so Yeah **** usefull !

[Holgar]

I personally love this setting (will write a longer thread later). I am not a casual player. But I have friends who are not great at this game, and this gives me the chance to play with them in content they simply could not handle.

There is a serious divide in this game between those with gear and those without. I have heavy-duty greensteel gear and some degree of raid items on my toons. My friends don't and their power levels are much lower because of it. I am really looking forward to running quests with them now that would make their eyes bleed before.

Good change, Turbine!

Holgar

[Razcar]

And to add to the other concerns, I think Turbine might be shooting themselves in the foot here as well. Without Casual, then you have to learn a bit about the game to be able to play without wiping and that meant you have to make an investment. Not in money, which in the amounts we are talking about here is quite negligible for most of us - except for the worst Shopaholics maybe - but an investment in time and effort.

It goes without saying that when you invest, you become more loyal. And also, to have knowledge about something fosters pride over your know-how (just look at these boards), which is also a very powerful customer retention factor.

When Turbine are catering and directing DDO towards "fire-and-forget" gaming with changes like these ("come and play DDO for a month, with the new Casual setting you'll experience all the cool content without all the old "headaches"!) they will in the end decrease customer loyalty and longevity.

And yes, in the end we are all going to leave, but it serves Turbine to try to keep us for as long as possible. In DDO, when you've done all that can be done in game, seen all, have all the raid loot, have ran all the content umpteen times, played all the classes, well then people usually stay around for friendships "only" - or they leave. I believe that in the end it could be contra-productive for Turbine to deliberately try to decrease the amount of effort and time it takes for a player to reach that point of "ennui".

Whatever the exact longevity is, the more casual-friendly Turbine makes DDO, the shorter time will the game keep its customers, the less loyal will they be, and the less will they end up paying for.

So they might end up making less money by making the game too simple. Maybe the Casual setting is just one step too far in that direction.

[Cyr]

So dungeon scaling was not easy enough. Then we got Quarter/DD. Now we get noob mode. "Reduced rewards" are meaningless if chests still dropped named items and quests still give pre-raid completion. This will make noob mode the normally run mode for a variety of quests just like normal is now. This will lead to many of the new players out there never learning the basics of the game and being a drag on parties they join for raids. This will make them think raids are super tough and quit in higher numbers. System shock is a great way to get people to quit a game. Before you leveled up and stuff got progressively more difficult. Now, you level up and stuff kind just stays easy sauce forever. All in all a big thumbs down on the continued dumbing down of DDO.

[capluke]

Will expected loot and items that would drop on norm, hard and elite drop on casual? E.g. Boot ingredients in Amrath quests.

Asking based on following from Tolero, specifically in red:

Things to note about this difficulty:
Casual difficulty features scaled-down monsters and lower CR than a normal dungeon, but provides less experience, lesser quality treasure, and less favor for completing it.

[Siskel]

So i am assuming quests like Enter the Kobold will be easier now. Might be a boost for reaver's refuge.

[Kalari]

I guess all the posts about the puzzles and locked shrines finally got to them and Turbine really did add the stuff we joked about. Parvo I have a feeling your /cry emote thing maybe the next addition.

Call it sour grapes call it whatever you want I just dont understand the need to make this game easier. I thought we were trying to stand out from other mmo's have it where people once they beat a challenging quest got reward from that. But from the answers Ive gotten from Borror0 and the responses for the want of this mode I guess im wrong. I hope people understand what they are losing out on though, challenge builds character and if a person cannot learn to adapt to obstacles why play a game that moves up in difficulty as you progress (or used to sigh). Maybe im looking at this wrong but I just dont understand the need for this. And yes I do play untwinked on different servers from my main so I know that quests can still be challenging even at low levels. Its the challenge that lets you know if your gimped stuff like this will not teach new players about building solid characters but then again they can just reincarnate right? Im starting to see where all this is leading so no more complaints from me. Revenue is very important to the game.

[Zenako]

Someone asked.

Stealer of Souls does have a Casual Setting....

but no EPIC...

Lets see how far I solo...

[gwlech]

If anything, something comparable to "epic" would be nice. Having a level 20+ version of each quest in the game as well as some kind of reward to work towards would really help to flatten out the endgame burnout many players suffer.

WW with CR 30 + mobs anyone?

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Someone asked.

Stealer of Souls does have a Casual Setting....

but no EPIC...

Lets see how far I solo...

hehehe, I'd love to hear how you make out in there and your thoughts on that. I welcome casual for the Reaver's Refuge alone! Stupid lottery system...

[Quanefel]

That's false. You get -50% XP, less favor and apparently reduced loot as well.

I have ran the "casual" setting on a number of quests in the test server, the loot is not scaled down from what I saw.

[Slorgs]

Frankly though, I see no shame in calling it Easy. There's Normal, there's Hard, so naturally the one before it should be called Easy.

No it should be called Sub-Normal.

[Shassa]

I really appreciate the constructive replies to my post. I do understand where you guys are coming from. Junts, I read your entire post. I paid attention too, particularly since I'd used your Paladin guide (I solo as a 18 Paladin).

Ghortagg said it before I could though, I think you guys are being a little presumptive about the people who would be using the Easy mode (and yes, I agree that we should call a duck a duck... this is Easy). Sure, some will be noobish players who have never been challenged to do well - but these are the same clueless people you see in some PUGs right now anyway. Bad players will be bad players, regardless of whether there's an easy button or not. Yes, even if there was no other difficulty setting other than Elite, you would still see soloers, casual players, and bad players getting to 20.

Let me illustrate this with an example. I played Everquest in the early years, starting in 1999 or whatever. Talk about a harsh environment and a sharp learning curve. Upon death, you would have days of xp taken away, get knocked down a level, and have to run naked to your corpse that's a half hour's travel away and try to loot it without dying again, or running out of time and losing all of your equipment. No easy button there! But guess what, we still had the good players, the bad players, the multi-boxers, the soloers, the message board elites, and the people who always felt compelled to yell "ding!" each and every time they levelled on the rats outside of Freeport. Just because the game environment penalized you heavily for mistakes, didn't necessarily mean that people were going to be any less of a nuisance facing Nagafen (the original big bad red dragon).

So let's go back to DDO, and let's revisit my old example of running the Chamber of Raiyum. The first time I soloed it on Normal, I died twice, it took me over three hours and I wasn't able to get into the treasure room. The third time I ran it, it took me 46 minutes to finish and grab all the optionals and chests. My skills certainly got better by finishing Normal. If there was no Normal, I'd get crushed by Elite and get frustrated and quit. Is that what some of you guys want? Have it only be accessible by those you deem worthy? Not addressing that question to Junts specifically, I'm speaking generally.

Yeah, I solo. I'm level 18 and have never grouped. And yet I still have my Minos Legens, my plethora of clickies, extra ac and resistance gear, different weapons to overcome different DR, the works. I have to. Otherwise I get my butt handed to me just like you. Those of you in static groups and guilds and such get to do everything earlier than me, but I'll still be able to manage 90% of it eventually. And the other 10% doesn't bother me. It doesn't eat at me that I don't have a Chattering Ring or Madstone Boots or whatever. I learn to do my best with what's available. So even if I decide I'm feeling social and decide to join a raid, guess what - I'm not going to suddenly turn into a drooling idiot. In some ways, I am more skilled than those who PUG all the time, because no one is going to ensure my survivability but me. How often have I seen complaints about bad players who depend on Clerics to heal them and their careless fighting tactics? I can't get away with that.

I also understand Zenako's comment about, "We're not talking about you, even if you're a soloer you're obviously not casual at this point". Well, that's where my point comes in, too. The main argument I hear is that the bad players are going to rely on Easy until they come in and mess up your raid. My counterpoint is that one, a lot of people doing Easy will be better than you think, and second, that you already have bad players messing up your raids and I really don't agree with the logic that adding an Easy mode will produce more of them. Because again, bad players can still get flagged by being idiots in PUGs. And they will. Remember, every time they make something idiot-proof, they invent a better type of idiot.

Let me end it this way. This solo player who has never grouped and would utilize Easy mode frequently has not messed up your raid. I have, however, paid sixty bucks in the past few months to open up Gianthold, the Vale, the Orchard and the shared bank. Turbine is making it so I can keep going, so that in turn I will pay them to keep us all going. Win/win.

Thanks again for the meaningful replies. I was expecting to get creamed mercilessly, but even those who have disagreed with me have been thoughtful and respectful, and I appreciate that.

And hey, eventually I will join someone's party or guild or raid or whatever. It's just that I've always been a reserved, lone-wolf, self-sufficient type in and out of MMOs. But if you're on Khyber you're welcome to say hi.

[ghortagg]

I think exactly the same way

Bad players will be bad players no matter what

In easy mode, beholders will still have their eyes
so there still going to be a learning curve (less hard i admit)

So stop hunting the Casual players down.

PS: Why do you assume that every casual is gonna do Every single quest in Easy mode and never try Normal or Above... ?

[Beherit_Baphomar]

hehehe, I'd love to hear how you make out in there and your thoughts on that. I welcome casual for the Reaver's Refuge alone! Stupid lottery system...

Why?

Why should the quest where the best armour in the game drops be doable on casual?

[Hendrik]

I think exactly the same way

Bad players will be bad players no matter what

In easy mode, beholders will still have their eyes
so there still going to be a learning curve (less hard i admit)

So stop hunting the Casual players down.

PS: Why do you assume that every casual is gonna do Every single quest in Easy mode and never try Normal or Above... ?

/poke

Cause Normal is to hard for them and that's why they now have Easy.

[moorewr]

Why?

Why should the quest where the best armour in the game drops be doable on casual?

Well, she told you her reason: because the rune lottery is stupid.