New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[Adoraro]

Okay so basically remember how we used to have "solo" on things like the Depths quests in House D? Yeah those all became "casual" instead of solo now. Any place that it used to say "solo" now will say "casual" and won't force you to only have 1 person. Also...remember how that "solo" check box only went up to like level 8 or 10 or something (if that)...now casual goes ALL the way up. The exceptions are raids (pretty straight forward) or quests that are "solo-only" (like the grotto, haverdasher, or the new solo-only in the inspired quarter).

Haverdasher is no longer solo only (since mod9, I believe).

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I would add that it now allows me to hold my 7yr olds hand (F2P) through some lighter content to achieve success...

Some of us do have kids that play too...

Game is rated Teen. The fact that you let your kid play a teen game /shrug

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Basically we were having major issues with brand new players to the game mistaking that quests that didn't have a "solo" box on them couldn't be played alone. We also changed it so that what used to be "solo-only" (with some exceptions) is now able to be played with more people. Granted you get less rewards/favor/xp because it's not as tough, but the important part is - play the quests with however many (or few) people you feel like.

That's cool IMO.

I see a lot of posts about new players wanting to solo this game.

In fact, a friend of mine gave up (without tell me he was even playing) because he did not like having to group with people to do quests.

I've never thought this should be a solo game, but if it helps with new players and keep the game going, I'm all for it.

[Anneliese]

Game is rated Teen. The fact that you let your kid play a teen game /shrug

The Teen rating is sort of an recommendation, its not enforced, its more of a guideline for the parents what can happen in the game.
----------------------------

To add to the topic:

I love it! New players miss one thing - experience. With the new mode, even a group of new players can try quests like madstone and not be destined to fail/recall over and over for the first few times. Afterwards they know how the quest works and can try the higher difficulties.

[ghortagg]

I feel compelled to reply here:

Going into a new quest is somewhat intimidating
you don't know how hard/complex the quest is (difficulty of quest widely varies dependin on your build)
si you may be reluctant to go into famous quests
(ie i never set a foot in the Xorian cypher althought i m level 12, maybe it will be piece of cake, maybe not)

I do think Easy Mode is a good thing:
- it allows us to see the quest in easy mode before going to the real deal
- for those who don't care much on loot/xp/favor we can still enjoy the story
- it may allow us to flag faster
- if a specific quest in an arc is too difficult, a easy mode is nice

I think i mostly use this feature to preview quests before bringing my GF toon on normal/hard

However i'd gladly admit that with Dungeon Scaling (best feature ever IMHO) and Hirelings, easy mode is an overkill

[CrimReaper]

Game is rated Teen. The fact that you let your kid play a teen game /shrug

No..it's actually simply something to club over me the head with....my daughter loves playing...

But thanks for the intrest and support...

+1 to you !

[CrimReaper]

The Teen rating is sort of an recommendation, its not enforced, its more of a guideline for the parents what can happen in the game.

Been premuim a couple months...havent found any objectionable content...

That might change if the vets get kinky outfits though!

*grin*

[Atenhotep]

*sigh*



Excuse me while I check www.jumptheshark.com for its newest entry on DDO.

[toughguyjoe]

*sigh*



Excuse me while I check www.jumptheshark.com for its newest entry on DDO.

your enjoyment of that website speaks volumes.

[Borror0]

Optimal? Why? As Hendrik says, presumably on behalf of "the more than you think":

Thus, shouldn't the desire and want of challenge be the driving and sole need to make that choice when they are positioned to enter that quest of choice?

It's the way the brain works. I'm working on a thread that explains it in length so you can wait for that (or read A Theory of Fun for Game Design), but here is the short version.

"Fun" is learning at a degree of difficulty that is neither so hard you want to give up nor so easy that you're barely learning in a context where you don't feel pressured by the outcome (ie no one really dies, you won't get yelled at for failing, etc.). This is a definition of fun that is agreed upon that by the vast majority of game designers and is supported by a fair deal of neuroscience. For example, cognitive neuroscientist Edward A Vessel says the following:

These “aha” moments, when a concept or message is fully interpreted and understood, lead to a flood of chemicals in the brain and body that we experience as pleasurable. It feels good to “get” it. The deeper the concept is, the better it feels when we are finally able to wrap our head around it.

Basically, without new information to chew on (ie new challenges), games become dull.

This is vastly supported by many anecdotal fact ("I complete the game, so I don't need to play it another time") and studies (games that are constantly updated, multiplayer elements, great randomization preventing memorization or have user-generated content tend to have a much longer lifespan than games that don't), too.

Thing is, if games are learning tools, what they teach is how to beat them. Beating them is what is fun, so it is to expect that players will players will strive for the most optimal strategies and beat them. This is how "exploits" arise: people think laterally and find ways to beat the challenge that was unintended. As game designer Raph Koster says, the destiny of a game is to eventually become boring.

When you look at MMOs in specific, there are two common "challenges' to overcome:

• The obstacle: a monster, a quest or a puzzle you have beat
• The goal: flagging or grinding

In the case of the former, attempting a greater difficulty is fun: you're facing something new and stronger that you have to grok. However, in the case of the latter, attempting a greater difficulty is not necessarily fun as it depends on what the optimal strategy is. After all, beating the challenge is getting there as fast as possible. It makes no sense to lengthen yourself for no reason.

This is what lead a few MUD designer to say, "The journey is the reward is a f--ing lie. (People who much rather have the princess.)"

Anyway, that's the short version. I'll post the longer version whenever it's done. Oh, and you should really buy A Theory of Fun for Game Design by Raph Koster. Easily the best book I read in years and it changed how I view games, probably forever.

[elgranmago13]

Wow, nicely put borro0.
wikignome...nice.

[HBene]

I like this option, at least new players will be able to try quests "more safely" before ruining other players in harder difficulty quests, though it doesn't mean that they won't do it anyway.

[Zenako]

Some details on Casual Mode

Went and tried some of the House D quests.

On Casual the EXP is under 50% of that on Normal.

Depths of Discord (Landslide) Normal = 856 EXP, Casual = 401 EXP

Level of Quest is auto dropped by 1, so the level 5 quest now counts as a level 4, I assume this is how they reduce Treasure since the chest contents are tied to Quest level.

Landslide had only one helper elemental and had between 62 and 72 Hit Points on Casual.

The Side Passages with the Trolls and Undead only had one of each.

Depths of Darkness Normal = 802 EXP, Casual = 374 EXP....

Test was with a level 20 Cleric (who just did one of the new higher level quests on normal...reports elsewhere)

[DownClan]

I like (the idea of) this change.

For example, The Pit. That's a complex quest, in a big dungeon. I've been on it with a group a couple of times, but I always feel somewhat lost as the group runs around doing the various steps.

I don't feel that I am ready to solo it on Normal - untwinked level 13 Favored Soul, just not enough DPS to beat-down the MOB's when they swarm.

On Casual, I would try solo'ing it, to better understand just what is involved in solving the quest. Once I understand the quest better, I would consider trying to organize and lead parties on n/h/e.

--DownClan

[sirgog]

This difficulty setting isn't aimed at a player like me, but I can really get behind it. Really good for newer players, particularly when they get to content that's unforgiving even on Normal (example: Enter the Kobold, Amrath quests).

Let them try out a bunch of tactics on Casual, then once they find something they feel works and build up some confidence in their play ability, they can try the same thing in Normal.

[Quanefel]

It's the way the brain works. I'm working on a thread that explains it in length so you can wait for that (or read A Theory of Fun for Game Design), but here is the short version.

"Fun" is learning at a degree of difficulty that is neither so hard you want to give up nor so easy that you're barely learning in a context where you don't feel pressured by the outcome (ie no one really dies, you won't get yelled at for failing, etc.). This is a definition of fun that is agreed upon that by the vast majority of game designers and is supported by a fair deal of neuroscience. For example, cognitive neuroscientist Edward A Vessel says the following:
Basically, without new information to chew on (ie new challenges), games become dull.

This is vastly supported by many anecdotal fact ("I complete the game, so I don't need to play it another time") and studies (games that are constantly updated, multiplayer elements, great randomization preventing memorization or have user-generated content tend to have a much longer lifespan than games that don't), too.

Thing is, if games are learning tools, what they teach is how to beat them. Beating them is what is fun, so it is to expect that players will players will strive for the most optimal strategies and beat them. This is how "exploits" arise: people think laterally and find ways to beat the challenge that was unintended. As game designer Raph Koster says, the destiny of a game is to eventually become boring.

When you look at MMOs in specific, there are two common "challenges' to overcome:

• The obstacle: a monster, a quest or a puzzle you have beat
• The goal: flagging or grinding

In the case of the former, attempting a greater difficulty is fun: you're facing something new and stronger that you have to grok. However, in the case of the latter, attempting a greater difficulty is not necessarily fun as it depends on what the optimal strategy is. After all, beating the challenge is getting there as fast as possible. It makes no sense to lengthen yourself for no reason.

This is what lead a few MUD designer to say, "The journey is the reward is a f--ing lie. (People who much rather have the princess.)"

Anyway, that's the short version. I'll post the longer version whenever it's done. Oh, and you should really buy A Theory of Fun for Game Design by Raph Koster. Easily the best book I read in years and it changed how I view games, probably forever.

Play more video games, less reading about them.

Nerd.

[winsom]

Please tell me that flagging quests do NOT have casual mode. I would hate to have people in my raid group who could not complete the flagging quests on normal in the raid.

I hope to see it as a solo-enabling option.

My 20th brd/rog is not able to solo 'Running with the Devils' only because of the self-healing paladin. It's a red-named, so Glitterdust, Holds, Dance, deception/radiance, etc. do not help me win. A lot of my character's damage comes from sneak attack. The dungeon scaling code did not significantly (if at all) lessen his healing abilities. Perhaps that scaling should be fixed for a solo player, but failing that it is my hope that the "Casual" difficulty will let me solo-aquire the crafting item from this adventure.

[donfilibuster]

I want more solo quests/settings
My schedule and daddy duties make it extremely hard to group with others and have no toon above 12th as those almost all require groups or LONG QUESTS that i am unable to sit through without interruptions.

This would be one of the main purposes, if i'm not mistaken the "casual" players is being mentioned on web reviews of the game.
I have seen at least a couple listing DDO as highly time consuming and "not friendly to casual players" and these reviews may be where the term casual comes from.
Personally i did read reviews before going vip and isn't the first game i see where the in-game economy is altered in some way to cater to this market.

As for solo/easy, well, you are right that easy may not relate to the "casual players" even when it will indeed be easy.
And solo isn't supposed to be easy just for the sake of it but because you can and want to do it without other players, which can be a hard task without being of enough level, equipment and skill.
So the casual label will be just right and implicitly includes being easy and generally soloable.

[Strakeln]

It seems to me that you should take out dungeon scaling, now that you have a solo-ish option for dungeons that scaling applied to.

Maybe leave it in place for outdoor areas.

[sirgog]

I hope to see it as a solo-enabling option.

My 20th brd/rog is not able to solo 'Running with the Devils' only because of the self-healing paladin. It's a red-named, so Glitterdust, Holds, Dance, deception/radiance, etc. do not help me win. A lot of my character's damage comes from sneak attack. The dungeon scaling code did not significantly (if at all) lessen his healing abilities. Perhaps that scaling should be fixed for a solo player, but failing that it is my hope that the "Casual" difficulty will let me solo-aquire the crafting item from this adventure.

That quest has always been brutal to solo since there is no reduction in his self-healing that occurs with dungeon scaling.