New Difficulty Feedback: Casual

[Horrorscope]

Played a casual tonight, it's nearly half as easy as Normal. If there are people out there that need it to really move forward, god bless'em. But I do think what could happen here is it's a good way for someone to go in solo w/hench possibly and learn the layouts etc., if they are into that thing. Perhaps make very hard quests for solo'ers much more possible.

[Natashaelle]

I experienced a BUG in Casual, in the quest Information is Key, with my 4th Level F2P character imported from Cannith.

I had previously done this quest in Normal and Hard, but not Solo.

I completed the Quest in Casual, with the +25% first time bonus XP granted, but after completion my listed favour points from the Q went down to 2, and it was flagged as Casual completion type acheived -- furthermore, I can now only run the quest in either Casual or Normal but not Hard or Elite even though I have it completed in Hard. My House Phiarlan favour score has been reduced to 2, but for some reason my overall favour was simultaneously increased by 6, and difficulty acheived remains stuck at Casual -- even though the toon had done it in hard previously, and despite completing twice on normal on Lammania.

[KKDragonLord]

Basically we were having major issues with brand new players to the game mistaking that quests that didn't have a "solo" box on them couldn't be played alone. We also changed it so that what used to be "solo-only" (with some exceptions) is now able to be played with more people. Granted you get less rewards/favor/xp because it's not as tough, but the important part is - play the quests with however many (or few) people you feel like.

Its an excellent idea and addition to the game that will make it much more appealing to the crowds unfamiliar with the D&D rules and the differences of DDO from other MMOs, which has always been its strong points and weak points.

Dont forget about making the Hard stuff more attractive for the hardcore crowd, since most people will always avoid challenge and end-game is all about rading and grouping. Those who feel bored with little challenge will likely not bother sticking around if all they can find are groups doing things in the easiest/less time consuming manner because the risk/reward dont justify running on harder settings.

To keep them hooked, harder settings must have overwhelming benefits to easier ones, hopefully cutting much shorter the unreasonable grind the current end-end-game equipment requires. This will make veterans much better players as they will feel compensation for challenging themselves and at the same time, will ensure they dont get bored for mindlessly repeating quests too many times, with the added benefit of making less skilled/dedicated players aspire to reach the same level.

I suggest that next, you guys should tackle the second greatest barrier for player interest from MMO players in general, which is PvP.

I personally dislike PvP with a passion, and DDO is the only MMO that managed to get through my dislike for the Online genre, (being a niche-game im inserted in certainly helped of course). But, it is necessary to acknowledge the fact that PvP plays a huge role in the MMO scene, and most players of this genre view a game with no PvP as uninteresting because it is much more thrilling to fight human opponents than it is to fight computer controlled ones. It truly adds a whole new layer of experience to the game, that a huge audience find appealing. (Evidence to this claim are all the current MMOs from the past 3 years).

If DDO had a PvP side, perhaps with regular events of conquering Guild headquarters, (as is a very common method on MMOS). Perhaps it would manage to get the attention of a huge player base. The character building and party role aspects of DDO are certainly strong enough to compete with other PvP MMOs. Obviously certain things would have to work differently during PvP or be much more polished in order for PvP to work well enough.

But if we only had guild houses, where we could share our stuff with other members, organize events, view member data, share some TPs and contribute for the betterment of the whole, without the PvP, i think it would be cool enough already.

[Therilith]

My main issue with this is that it will make getting special/named loot too easy. Hate on the rune lottery all you want, but the solution is to fix it, not to make runes trivial to get.

As has been stated previously in this thread, disabling raid flagging and special (GS ingredients, draconic runes)/named items on "casual" would alleviate a lot of concerns.

It is time some of you come to accept the fact that a lot of people have better things to do with their lives than run Shroud 500 fracking times to totally pimp out their toons or farm Refuge hundreds of times to get that perfect suit of DT armor.

Of course, but then they shouldn't get "pimped out toons" and "that perfect suit of DT armor".

[Mjesko]

Dont forget about making the Hard stuff more attractive for the hardcore crowd, since most people will always avoid challenge and end-game is all about rading and grouping. Those who feel bored with little challenge will likely not bother sticking around if all they can find are groups doing things in the easiest/less time consuming manner because the risk/reward dont justify running on harder settings.

To keep them hooked, harder settings must have overwhelming benefits to easier ones, hopefully cutting much shorter the unreasonable grind the current end-end-game equipment requires. This will make veterans much better players as they will feel compensation for challenging themselves and at the same time, will ensure they dont get bored for mindlessly repeating quests too many times, with the added benefit of making less skilled/dedicated players aspire to reach the same level.

I suggest that next, you guys should tackle the second greatest barrier for player interest from MMO players in general, which is PvP.

If DDO had a PvP side, perhaps with regular events of conquering Guild headquarters, (as is a very common method on MMOS). Perhaps it would manage to get the attention of a huge player base. The character building and party role aspects of DDO are certainly strong enough to compete with other PvP MMOs. Obviously certain things would have to work differently during PvP or be much more polished in order for PvP to work well enough.

I think these are very good ideas, but instead of PvP DDO should have competive PvE, where two teams play the same quest and only one team can complete the quest.

[uhgungawa]

Casual PvP? You can only use hard loaves of French bread

[Auran82]

I have only one thing to say.

(Combat): Sannyasi hit you for a total of 18 points of pierce damage after 10 were blocked by damage reduction.

Hmm...

[Kaervas]

I have only one thing to say.

(Combat): Sannyasi hit you for a total of 18 points of pierce damage after 10 were blocked by damage reduction.

Hmm...

<Engine of Destruction> indeed.

[SirShen]

Seems Casual bugs up your favor. After you do casual, normal or hard it still states only Casual done. Logging out and back in dont fix it.

Also there is a bug were if u do casual then log out and back in you can open Epic on most quests.

eg

[Razcar]

I have only one thing to say.

(Combat): Sannyasi hit you for a total of 18 points of pierce damage after 10 were blocked by damage reduction.

Hmm...

Oh my. Poor Sannyasi, he used to be respected. He will need therapy.

[Ardaniel]

I tried two dungeons last night on Casual while solo. Fleshmaker's Laboratory and one of the Mindsunder quests (the one where you defend Captain Cage and look for a spy).

Fleshmaker's Laboratoy:
As a lvl 17 cleric I found it very easy to get up to the Air Elemental room. BB and occasional heals were all I needed. I ddin't manage to activate the levers though since I had trouble with the air elementals. I would keep being thrown back and landed on my butt anytime one came near me. I did seem to get up much faster than normal though. After being thrown off the platforms for about the 30th time I called it a day and recalled out. I will have to try to find a way around the air elementals the next time I go in, maybe with a symbol of persuasion or a few hirelings.

Fleshmakers was very easy apart from the air elementals, obviously since I was 3-4 lvls above the quest lvl. While trying for the runes to trap the elementals I only had enough time to get two runes turned off + a few seconds before I saw them turn on again.

Shipwrecked Spy? (Not sure of the quest name)
I'd only done this quest once before when someone sent me a tell while I was lvl 16 a few months back so I was starting over from scratch. I managed to defend Cage but lost a couple of crewmembers. I was able to explore the dungeon with ease and dealt with most mobs either by casting maximised BBs or by just hacking them down with a longsword. Cometfall, BB and Destruction were saved against quite often by the mobs. I was able to negate archer dmg with resistances.

I made it to the end having used 2 major mnemonic pots, 15-20 heal scrolls, several hezrous and my longsword. Can't compare loot to live because of my inexperience with the fight. I did get the yellow shard at the end.

I liked being able to explore Shipwrecked and taking my time. I found a cave that people had skipped over in live but then again most PUGs I join in live skip everything except for the main quest objective.

[Althotas]

Just to see what happens I ran Run with the devils on casual in the Vale. It was tougher fighting your way out there than the actual quest was on a Barbarian. All the chests were there as on any difficfulty but the loot was lowered. Also no pie in the end chest from the one run.
And no ingredients pulled so ransacking may not be as big a benefit on casual as was thought. But then it could just be I was having bad luck in there too.

I also ran 3 quests in the Inspired quarter on Casual. Loot waws as usual in there but I did pull 2 shards out of 3 quests.

[Crazyfruit]

I was looking forward to this until seeing ^ post... so people playing casual have a (much?) lower chance of finding any of the special treasure/items in quests?

[Razcar]

Just to see what happens I ran Run with the devils on casual in the Vale. It was tougher fighting your way out there than the actual quest was on a Barbarian. All the chests were there as on any difficfulty but the loot was lowered. Also no pie in the end chest from the one run.
And no ingredients pulled so ransacking may not be as big a benefit on casual as was thought. But then it could just be I was having bad luck in there too.

No pie? Seems Turbine did think about this then. Good.

[Razcar]

I was looking forward to this until seeing ^ post... so people playing casual have a (much?) lower chance of finding any of the special treasure/items in quests?

It's a flagging item for the Thirteenth Eclipse ("Shroud") raid.

[Kaervas]

It's a flagging item for the Thirteenth Eclipse ("Shroud") raid.

As well as 1/5th of the core component of a greensteel blank.

[Khimberlhyte]

Based on running a few quests solo, casual seems far too easy in some areas, but Freshen the Air showed me that the difficulty on casual is inconsistent. I have tried casual in three solo quests and two party quests, focusing on early game content which is all I know, and which is also what I expect ultra-casual players will be playing. Based on casual mode at the moment, those ultra-casual players will be people who won't miss the XP, which rules out anyone who wants to hit level 6 or higher within their lifetime:

• Irestone Inlet, lvl 6 cleric
• Irestone Inlet, lvl 2 cleric
• Kobolds New Ringleader, lvl 2 cleric
• Kobolds New Ringleader, lvl 2 cleric, lvl 2 wizard
• Freshen the Air, lvl 2 cleric, lvl 2 wizard

I only started playing in October 2009, and my highest level characters are 6 or 7. I've run around four characters up to that level, trying out wiz, cleric, pally. I've never played another MMO, and generally don't game much apart from a lot of DDO in the past three months. I played PnP 25 years ago, and am probably part of the target market that Turbine is trying to reach with F2P.

Irestone Inlet (stated to be level 3 as casual, 4 on normal), lvl 6 cleric

After downloading the Lamannia client this morning, I tried Irestone solo in casual with my lvl 6 cleric. This was not a twinked toon, it's my highest level character from Orien, with the highest end equipment being a +2 Khopesh, +2 heavy armor, and a dagger of potency which offers 50% improvement to level 2 and lower healing spells. Nothing fancy. I easily blasted through Irestone with my lvl 6 on casual - without even shrining, or bothering to be careful or strategic. The chest rewards sucked, end rewards were okay (+2 light crossbow, nominal value of 8000gp). Worg knockdowns were <2 seconds. Otto's Sphere also affected me for <2 seconds. The XP was laughable, around 400 or so.

Irestone Inlet lvl 2 cleric

Since that was far too easy, I thought I'd try a different approach. I rolled a new human battle cleric on Lamannia (using the default path provided by Turbine) and ran it through Korthos on normal difficulty, running solo. The only quests I did more than once were Cannith Crystal, Stopping the Sahaugin, and Sacrifices. I then completed Miserys, and came to Stormreach harbour with only Korthos gear.

After arriving in Stormreach, I bound at the Leaky Dinghy, and hit Irestone on casual. I died the first time through from the worgs, and abandoned the quest for a clean restart. I was successful on my second try through Irestone on casual, with a level 2 cleric who started the quest equipped with only Korthos gear. I had one death, and zero re-entries.

Observations:

• the worgs could still knock me down. If I had a worg and one other monster on me, I had to run away in the brief pauses between knockdowns. Two worgs got tricky, and three worgs was ugly. I was incapacitated three times near the first shrine due to the worgs. I stabilized twice, and died once right next to the resurrection shrine. I could probably avoid this in the future by using summoned monster right away to pull for me and draw aggro.
• I started using summoned monster around 1/3 of the way through, and it was very, very useful. The celestial dog stayed with me until it ran out of hit points - it was nice to not have a short timer. I probably would not have made it through without the dog, or if I did, it would have only been by abusing the shrines even more.
• the summoned monster did not teleport onto Yaryars ship, but stayed on the shore. It would be nice if they would teleport to the master whenever they are stopped at a gap, and the master is in combat.
• Otto's sphere only lasted for a few seconds. Going solo, had it lasted much longer, I would not have been able to finish.
• I think I hit both rest shrines twice, although I might have hit the first shrine three times. I could cut that down with better strategy next time, but I'm not planning on ever doing this again.
• I chose the eternal spark of light wand in the tutorial. It has been upgraded to a level 3 wand, and was my only ranged weapon. I relied on it heavily, and once I had the dog, and started shooting mobs while running backwards until the wand emptied, I lost far fewer hit points.
• the only weapons I used were Valens Mace and the wand. I picked up a non-magical heavy steel shield and some non-magical breastplate from chests in Irestone around half way through my second attempt. I put them on after I got them, and that was the extent of my non-Korthos gear.
• I forgot to use my Archivist's necklace more than a few times - I usually hit the shrine with it still charged.
• time was 70 minutes, 1065 XP.

Overall, I had more fun than I did the first time through Irestone with a group who was zerging. That isn't saying much, since my first run was a blur, and the group went too fast for me to follow what was happening. Doing it solo was such a grind that I wouldn't want to do it again. It was a challenge on casual with my lvl 2 only because of my limited gear, hp, spells, and sp. With a level 3 cleric, decent +1 or +2 weapons and armor and a potency item, it would be a cakewalk. I think that the XP to time ratio on casual will drive any moderately serious player into groups running on normal, hard or elite. Apart from using casual to learn a quest, I don't see myself ever playing on casual.

Kobolds New Ringleader (stated as level 2 casual) lvl 2 cleric

Same level 2 cleric fresh from Korthos, using Korthos gear + heavy steel shield

• explosive barrel - lost 1 hp. I hit four explosive barrels deliberately, lost 1 hp on three of them, 2hp on the fourth.
• cold trap - 1 hp damage, had to stand in it to trigger
• fire trap - 3 hp damage
• Kobolds - mostly one hit to kill (weapon with base damage rating of 4.73)
• I went through the quest with a level 2 cleric, 45 hp (including 5hp from rugged belt). Starter equipment + heavy steel shield. Did not heal or shrine at all, ended up with 20 hp after killing everything including the spiders.
• It was very boring to play. No challenge whatsoever. You could basically run through doing nothing other than holding down your left mouse button (apart from opening doors and levers) and still finish with some hit points

Kobolds New Ringleader, lvl 2 cleric, lvl 2 wizard

This was as much of a cakewalk as single player. We didn't shrine, didn't heal, didn't run out of hp or sp. Casual setting on lvl 2 quests means wizards can be melee toons. Casual mode in a party was every bit as tedious as it was on solo

Freshen the Air (level 4 casual), lvl 2 cleric, lvl 2 wizard

The wizard had never done this one, and I didn't bring my "A" game either. I lost too much time switching weapons or staring off into space. We both died in the room with the crates, both completely out of SP, standing next to the second crate. We might have been able to finish it had I not screwed up, and if we had taken out the casters and throwers strategically. Maybe. This one gave me some hope that casual wasn't too easy on everything.

Also, what's with the building blocking the walkway in the harbour just south of Jorn Family Crypt? I already waste too much time running around to get places, selling loot, trading in collectables, etc. Get rid of that building. I had to swim almost to the Irestone quest to get out, or else go back to the entrace to Osgoods. I figured out later that yes, I can run 1m up the cliff and jump up to the building roof, but why bother? Getting from A to B is a chore, not a core part of gameplay. I derive zero pleasure from scrambling over meaningless obstacles. What were the devs thinking when they blocked the path? Do they want people to avoid the harbour?

[Natashaelle]

I am not a casual player, but I can still see myself running some quests in casual difficulty on live.

1) No, not running level 2 quests with a level 1/2 toon in casual (except for those very few that provide some meaningful xp for doing this) -- I mean soloing some higher level quests than my toon level. Especially when I'm in the solo play mood. Also, anything that will reduce the amount of time spent solo grinding explo/slayers/rares is good news. And I do tend to want to quadruple play some high XP quests for power levelling rather than the more typical n/h/e triple play -- this change will fairly significantly increase the number of quests where I may want to do this

2) There are some quests in the game, especially at end level, that I currently prefer never to solo at all -- casual will let me do so, which all in all provides me with some extra gaming possibilities, especially say at 3-4 AM when not many may be available on my server (Keeper). It will also let me dip my toe into a quest's waters to see if I like its temperature for solo or group play with any particular toon in the standard difficulty levels.

3) I'm not sure I will do so, but I can already see that casual can be a good way to get training and insight into your toons' abilities for better effectiveness when grouping, especially character classes that one may not tend to normally play.

4) Finally, this may not be what I personally want, but I like it that almost the entire game looks like being soloable from now on. On the down side, if this had been possible when I first started DDO, then I would *certainly* have developed into a player that would almost never group at all... this would very certainly be the case if I were to start playing on the US servers instead of staying with the European ones where I have my habits, my guildies and other friends, and etc.. So I have mixed feelings abou this aspect of casual - the extra soloability is a plus, but the resulting de-emphasis on normal grouping and in-game sociability is a fairly significant minus.

[Richtenfaust]

Why do people care if it's easier to get pie pieces, ingredients, named items, etc? It's Us vs. NPCs...you'd think everyone would want everyone else to be as uber as possible so that even if the newb you picked up without realizing for your raid still has a reasonable survival chance / damage output. Also, what people seem to be failing to realize is *you* can do it too! So, the newb is having an easy time of it getting these special items...imagine how quickly you will be able to zerg it!

If there is one thing I hate, it's crabs in a bucket. You nay-saying crabs should be steamed and consumed...that's all crabs are good for.

[Zenako]

Based on running a few quests solo, casual seems far too easy in some areas, but Freshen the Air showed me that the difficulty on casual is inconsistent.

Excellent and thanks for the write up from a newer player perspective.

You happen to point out one of the major concerns about casual, anyone who plays on that level (and there will be many I am sure), and if they are not a vet just farming something, will develop a very different perspective on quests and the ramifications of certain things. Your point about Traps being a significant one. On Casual, they are basically completely insignificant. This is true on the high level quests I have been checking out. Instead of making them aware that they should disarm or avoid traps, the solution is just to basically ignore them, since they are now really almost harmless.

This means that traps no longer can serve there function to deter characters from certain paths, or to require they take precautions, or expend resources to heal up the damage from them. That is just one aspect of how this will encourage and promote a very different style of gameplay which will be more and more incompatible with the other settings.

I predict that very soon after this goes live, that there will be a number of posts on the forums from really new players complaining about how hard it is to beat quests on the Dungeon Scaled down normal setting, after getting used to being in virtual GOD Mode on Casual. Then what? That is key to some of the long time players concerns.

That you were able to run a quest over your level, with almost any toon, including one of the weakest ones for running solo at those levels, says something. It says that they have been successful in removing any consideration of the consequences for how one creates a character, or pretty much how one plays it. It is moving the core of the game that much farther from the source it came from. D&D is supposed to be about choices and the benefits and consequences of those choices. That is being slowly but surely completely removed from this game. That is why many long time players of DDO and D&D are sad about some of the directions this is going.

Again, thanks for the detailed writeups.