Crowd Control/Heroic Surge Feedback

[Sarr]

Dungeon Scaling.

If that is not enough:
1. Because "stand there while I kill X mob" is not fun design
2. Because "we need X or Y class" is not fun design

Of course both extremes aren't good design. But I don't think it applies here, especially with that change with surges / CC.

I also wouldn't like DDO to be as solo friendly as it is group friendly, and to keep that, Turbine needs to maintain hindrances to survivability of one, incautious person. Other than that, I think we should test it well before we really insist on opinion. Release Notes are really virtual.

Ahh.. spirit of D&D is pretty subjective, no? Even if you say D&D is all about teamwork... that still doesn't address how a party of 6 melees is supposed to take down a air elemental together.

Well, but have you tested it yet on Lamannia? I confess I didn't, and we both should check if what you said still applies now.

[bobbryan2]

Of course both extremes aren't good design. But I don't think it applies here, especially with that change with surges / CC.

I also wouldn't like DDO to be as solo friendly as it is group friendly, and to keep that, Turbine needs to maintain hindrances to survivability of one, incautious person. Other than that, I think we should test it well before we really insist on opinion. Release Notes are really virtual.

I've tested short invulnerabilities to crowd control in other games. The first time I ever saw it... I said, "%*#*!!! Why doesn't DDO have this?"

[Sarr]

I've tested short invulnerabilities to crowd control in other games. The first time I ever saw it... I said, "%*#*!!! Why doesn't DDO have this?"

I did too, as I review MMO games from time to time. But now it's here . What's the problem now?

[Borror0]

Of course both extremes aren't good design. But I don't think it applies here, especially with that change with surges / CC.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

I also wouldn't like DDO to be as solo friendly as it is group friendly, and to keep that, Turbine needs to maintain hindrances to survivability of one, incautious person.

I have no problem with DDO being as friendly as other MMOs out there, for as long as the developers put enough incentives for most of us to get through the trouble of grouping most of the time. And, even if I believed that DDO should not be too solo-friendly, I would prefer insurmountable challenges over insurmountable annoyances.

[totmacher]

i went in and tested it. i solo'd the reaver to end game, took out at least 30 ellies with a fire 3 bow and slaying on on my ranged ranger. he has a VERY good saves/balance check vs. the ellies. i saw heroic inspiration proc once and i was still getting chain knocked down like there was no tomorrow. it's also funny once again to be the first person to post real feedback in threads meant for feedback :P

so no real change here

[Auran82]

Ran into some air elementals on my acrobat rogue so this didn't help against the knockdown (as they can't knock me down)

But is this meant to stop them from being able to continually throw you around the place? I could hardly land a melee attack on them because I was being constantly being pushed around everywhere. I know you get a save from this, but it seems like whenever they're near you you have to save every half a second or so or be thrown across the room.

[Althotas]

Ran into air ellies in a couple of places and I really saw heroic surge doing nothing of any importance. It would trigger for 3 or 4 seconds which is about how long it took to stand back up and you got hit again and were back on your back for another 3 or 4 seconds. Seems about useless. I am not sure what you meant it to do but I don't believe it is working as desired if it is supposed to be helping the players.

[Riorik]

Hint, it starts with Air and ends with Elementals...

That fix has been in the game for awhile. It's called Acrobat - Rogue 12 FTW!

[Shade]

Just gona chime in to say I hate it.

Not a fan of dumbing down the game.

Yet this post is a waste as im fully aware the casual that don't care about gameplay or challenge and just want the loot for free are the ones that pay the bills and not me, not the hardcores.

Just seems totally against the theme of the game and destroys the purpose of many spells.

Ex: Otto's iresistable dance.. Not irresistable anymore, What the ****?
Even tested it out.. Max duration: 1 minuit.. Yet that's a lie, heroic surge is 100% guarenteed after 30 seconds, so the spell no longer functions, it's just broken.

Meh. No use complaining, it's done. Nothing will come of this feedback. Nothing ever does, whats on lamannia is what goes on live, this is a truth all Veteran players understand.

[SableShadow]

...

We agree. 100%. The End is Nigh.

[Auran82]

I agree as well, as far as I am concerned all they had to do to 'fix' wolves and air elementals is add timers to their abilities (trip and going into whirlwind form), problem solved.

If they had to lower the durations of some abilities that the mobs use on lower difficulties that would have been fine, but it seems to be a little too far.

[Lifespawn]

Just gona chime in to say I hate it.

Not a fan of dumbing down the game.

Yet this post is a waste as im fully aware the casual that don't care about gameplay or challenge and just want the loot for free are the ones that pay the bills and not me, not the hardcores.

Just seems totally against the theme of the game and destroys the purpose of many spells.

Ex: Otto's iresistable dance.. Not irresistable anymore, What the ****?
Even tested it out.. Max duration: 1 minuit.. Yet that's a lie, heroic surge is 100% guarenteed after 30 seconds, so the spell no longer functions, it's just broken.

Meh. No use complaining, it's done. Nothing will come of this feedback. Nothing ever does, whats on lamannia is what goes on live, this is a truth all Veteran players understand.

i agree with you mostly too much dumbing down lately all that needs to be done is a longer cooldown timer on mobs that trip and air ellies not able to knock you down repeatedly once your knocked down give 12 seconds of immunity so people have atleast a chance to do something.

[bobbryan2]

I personally thought the only change that needed to be made was that you have 2 second invulnerability to the same type of CC after the first is finished.

So if you get tripped for 5 seconds. When you stand up, you have 2 seconds before you can be tripped again. If you're danced for 60 seconds, you have 2 seconds before you can be danced again... just like what currently happens with web.

That would have been solely sufficient. If the change is making CC even more useless than that... it's probably a little overboard.

[Zenako]

Just gona chime in to say I hate it.

Not a fan of dumbing down the game.

Yet this post is a waste as im fully aware the casual that don't care about gameplay or challenge and just want the loot for free are the ones that pay the bills and not me, not the hardcores.

Just seems totally against the theme of the game and destroys the purpose of many spells.

Ex: Otto's iresistable dance.. Not irresistable anymore, What the ****?
Even tested it out.. Max duration: 1 minuit.. Yet that's a lie, heroic surge is 100% guarenteed after 30 seconds, so the spell no longer functions, it's just broken.

Meh. No use complaining, it's done. Nothing will come of this feedback. Nothing ever does, whats on lamannia is what goes on live, this is a truth all Veteran players understand.

yup....sad to see in many ways...

[Mjesko]

Ex: Otto's iresistable dance.. Not irresistable anymore, What the ****?
Even tested it out.. Max duration: 1 minuit.. Yet that's a lie, heroic surge is 100% guarenteed after 30 seconds, so the spell no longer functions, it's just broken.

Do you have casted the spell on a monster or player? The change would make cc casters much less useful if the effect you describe is on a monster.

[Zenako]

Do you have casted the spell on a monster or player? The change would make cc casters much less useful if the effect you describe is on a monster.

It is nerfed both ways...

[Ponza69]

Has anyone on this server been able to test this with songs to ensure that bard abilities are not subject to heroic surges by monsters?

My concern would be for the fascinate or enthrall line. Manytimes when I use this i may get 6 out of 9 monsters for example due to range. If this is the case I will immediately sing another enthrall or fascinate to get the rest of the monsters.

My worry is that the cooldown period would prevent this tatic from working.

Another scenario would be mixed mobs (like undead and drow) where we may see conflicts between Music of the Dead and enthrall.

CC is pretty fun and allows small groups to be able to accomplish quests when executed correctly (patience) - I would hate to see this become more difficult to accomplish.

[Cyr]

Do you have casted the spell on a monster or player? The change would make cc casters much less useful if the effect you describe is on a monster.

It works both ways, supposedly less sever on monsters (CC works better then on players). It certainly will make epic alot less fun. Heck, otto's was really fun in chains and atdq. Same with hold spells and webs. Both of these will be hit hard in epic where mobs survive longer then anywhere else in game.

[Mjesko]

It works both ways, supposedly less sever on monsters (CC works better then on players). It certainly will make epic alot less fun. Heck, otto's was really fun in chains and atdq. Same with hold spells and webs. Both of these will be hit hard in epic where mobs survive longer then anywhere else in game.

Oh that is a bad idea in my opinion, which makes casters less fun to play.

[ieatogres]

Hint, it starts with Air and ends with Elementals...

Air Elementals should be fixed by simply reducing the rate at which players must save against them to something reasonable like once or twice a second. Currently the rate is set way to high and thus even high save characters fail in just a second or two when you have to save about 10-20 times a second.