Crowd Control/Heroic Surge Feedback

[Tolero]

This thread is for general feedback about the changes to crowd control and the addition of the Heroic Surge effect. If you have targeted feedback about a specific spell or specific effect, please visit the Specific Spell Feedback thread.

[Mjesko]

I think that the reoccurring saves for many cc spells are a very good idea, but the diminished duration will probably make the game too easy and it sounds like Turbine is getting DDO ready for PVP, which is a bad idea in my opinion.

I fear that the Heroic Surge will make Charm and Dominate spells against monsters even less useful, because they will faster break free from the spell, esp. on higher difficulties. That makes cc casters less useful on higher difficulties, which is a bad idea in my opinion.

[Jiipster]

Psst. It's spelled "Heroic".

*points at thread title*

[Borror0]

the diminished duration will probably make the game too easy

How so? Just ask your local cleric for Freedom of Movements. Well, unless Eladrin plans to nerf that one next. *crossesfingers*

[Zenako]

Do the mobs get Heroic Surges too? I had one occur while being tripped/overrun by the Maralith in The Demons Den. It had a short duration (5 to 10 seconds) and it freed me from the effects of overrun (which in this case was not a big issue, her melee attacks are not to be feared unlike her big sisters it appears.)

Not sure why this is being introduced and what systemic problem is supposed to address however.

[bobbryan2]

Do the mobs get Heroic Surges too? I had one occur while being tripped/overrun by the Maralith in The Demons Den. It had a short duration (5 to 10 seconds) and it freed me from the effects of overrun (which in this case was not a big issue, her melee attacks are not to be feared unlike her big sisters it appears.)

Not sure why this is being introduced and what systemic problem is supposed to address however.

You don't know what systemic problem it's supposed to address?

Really?

Cuz it's specified in the release notes. Along with whether mobs get it. Did you read the release notes?

[ghale]

Do the mobs get Heroic Surges too? I had one occur while being tripped/overrun by the Maralith in The Demons Den. It had a short duration (5 to 10 seconds) and it freed me from the effects of overrun (which in this case was not a big issue, her melee attacks are not to be feared unlike her big sisters it appears.)

Not sure why this is being introduced and what systemic problem is supposed to address however.

Hint, it starts with Air and ends with Elementals...

[sirgog]

I fear that the Heroic Surge will make Charm and Dominate spells against monsters even less useful, because they will faster break free from the spell, esp. on higher difficulties. That makes cc casters less useful on higher difficulties, which is a bad idea in my opinion.

People that want long-lasting, loyal servants use Suggestion spells over Charms anyway, it's just that much more reliable.

[rjedi]

Hint, it starts with Air and ends with Elementals...

And does it rhyme with Dare and Credentials?

edit: wow that was a epic failure on my behalf

[Zenako]

You don't know what systemic problem it's supposed to address?

Really?

Cuz it's specified in the release notes. Along with whether mobs get it. Did you read the release notes?

Sorry I was off on Lamannia trying it out in person...had not read the notes...

[bobbryan2]

Sorry I was off on Lamannia trying it out in person...had not read the notes...

Well in short, it's correcting a very blatant design flaw that's been in DDO since the beginning. The ability to be perma-CCed until you die by enemies. Enemies that continue to trip you before the trip timer is off, leaving you on the ground dying one small swing at a time.

Games like Warhammer, since the beginning, have had heroic surge abilities that give you 1-2 seconds of invulnerability to another CC ability after the first wears off, and it's been needed in this game since air elementals were released.

Trip
trip
trip
trip
trip
trip

for 7 minutes is stupid game design, and thankfully, they got around to fixing it. It doesn't solve the problem of melees actually being able to stand up and melee air elementals... but it's definitely a start.

[Mjesko]

How so? Just ask your local cleric for Freedom of Movements. Well, unless Eladrin plans to nerf that one next. *crossesfingers*

Because now you probably dont need Freedom of Movement, Remove Fear, ... anymore.

People that want long-lasting, loyal servants use Suggestion spells over Charms anyway, it's just that much more reliable.

Good point, but will a monster, that is affected by Suggestion, get a Heroic Surge after a few seconds? If yes it will probably break free before the duration ends.

[BoBoDaClown]

How about they now get rid of monster immunities to mind-CC and give us CC Bards some love

The monsters could heroic surge out of it.

Blanket immunities stink.

[Mjesko]

How about they now get rid of monster immunities to mind-CC and give us CC Bards some love

The monsters could heroic surge out of it.

Blanket immunities stink.

That is a great idea. IF Turbine removes the immunities and replaces them with heroic surges it would be a very good change.

[zealous]

How about they now get rid of monster immunities to mind-CC and give us CC Bards some love

The monsters could heroic surge out of it.

Blanket immunities stink.

/signed

Give red/purples varying kinds of surges and suddenly a plenthora of currently subpar specs, spells and abilities become viable.

[rimble]

This thread is for general feedback about the changes to crowd control and the addition of the Heroic Surge effect. If you have targeted feedback about a specific spell or specific effect, please visit the Specific Spell Feedback thread.

All we really needed was Air elementals to be toned down, and the duration on some effects shortened. It's just no fun waiting around for someone Commanded or Petrified for three minutes...the wide-sweeping change confuzzles me. Being tripped while already tripped is against the source rules, but I think temporary immunity to trip is going too far the other way. Just needed to fix the being tripped while tripped stuff. Smart players could already block to get back up.

[quickgrif]

All we really needed was Air elementals to be toned down, and the duration on some effects shortened. It's just no fun waiting around for someone Commanded or Petrified for three minutes...the wide-sweeping change confuzzles me. Being tripped while already tripped is against the source rules, but I think temporary immunity to trip is going too far the other way. Just needed to fix the being tripped while tripped stuff. Smart players could already block to get back up.

Yeah I can agree with that. Those are the two places that always were ludicrous. I feared as a melee player running into air elementals more than the final boss in many quest!?!?!?

[Sarr]

It doesn't solve the problem of melees actually being able to stand up and melee air elementals... but it's definitely a start.

Well, and why should melees be able to fight off everything? That's where distance DPS / CC are getting to be really useful. I think the idea of being useful to each other is the true spirit of D&D, but being able to do everything with just one class / person isn't.

[Borror0]

Well, and why should melees be able to fight off everything?

Dungeon Scaling.

If that is not enough:
1. Because "stand there while I kill X mob" is not fun design
2. Because "we need X or Y class" is not fun design

[bobbryan2]

Well, and why should melees be able to fight off everything? That's where distance DPS / CC are getting to be really useful. I think the idea of being useful to each other is the true spirit of D&D, but being able to do everything with just one class / person isn't.

Ahh.. spirit of D&D is pretty subjective, no? Even if you say D&D is all about teamwork... that still doesn't address how a party of 6 melees is supposed to take down a air elemental together.