Attempting a MC Warchanter build

**Morgan_Aquila** · 01-06-2010, 12:31 PM

Hello all. Very new at this, trying to come up with a self-sufficient FTP build that is still welcome on PUGs.

I was looking for:
Self-buffs/Survivability
DPS

Primarily TWF with Dwarven Axes
Concentrating on songs, buff spells and melee.

Give it a lookover, would you?

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Warchanter/Tempest I/Kensei I 
Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Female
(6 Fighter \ 6 Ranger \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 278
Spell Points: 304 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 17
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    18
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         13                    14
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom               11                    11
Charisma             12                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    17
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         5                    11
Diplomacy             5                    16
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                    16
Heal                  0                    13
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            1                     2
Jump                  6                    21
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               4                    16
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     3
Spot                  0                    13
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Thanks.

**dogpig00** · 01-06-2010, 01:10 PM

know that you can't cast any bard spells with 6 starting CHA. You need at least CHA of 11 to cast 1st level spells

**Morgan_Aquila** · 01-06-2010, 01:35 PM

Thank you very much. This is the kind of thing that should be in the Compendium. Changes everything.

Do YOU happen to know where they hide these little tidbits of information?

Thanks

**cyanpill** · 01-06-2010, 02:23 PM

Keep in mind that's you current level of cha that needs to be 11 to cast spells. So you can have a base of 6, +1 from enhancements, +1 from a tome, +3 from items, and be able to cast level 1 spells. If you take your non-bard levels first, you might be able to get by without using spells untill you can get cha high enough.

**Morgan_Aquila** · 01-08-2010, 03:39 PM

Having learned a bit more about Stats and how they relate to spellcasting I changed this up JUST a bit. Please "school" me some more.

**tybear** · 01-09-2010, 12:50 AM

You have to have a Dex of 15 for two weapon fighting.

**tc12** · 01-09-2010, 01:12 AM

You need to be much less multiclassed. At 20th no party really wants a warchanter with less than 14 or 15 levels of Bard. 14 gets a respectable level of song ehnancements, and 15 gets the song that helps AC-types (DEX builds, Monks or Intimitanks.)

You could get 2WF as a Bard 18 / Figther 2. You don't need tempest or kensai. Those are nice lines in some builds but the increased bard levels I think do more for you solo or in party.

TC

**rage9** · 01-09-2010, 01:18 AM

I'm building one right now, 12bard/6ranger/2fighter tempestwarchanter
You might want to sub fighter with rogue if ya want disable and lock picking as well as evasion.
I went with fighter for the 1 toughness enhancement and the +1 str 2 extra feats base attack bonus and couple hps, oh ya haste boost too but rogues get that as well
at 10bard/6ranger/2 fighter (lvl 18) now and she kicks butt.

I went human with khopeshes. human for skills and the stat bonuses with action points. And str based. ac is lacking but that's what blur and displacement is for.

Good luck and hope you enjoy it.
If you can log on to my.ddo.com check out kyntari (gallanda) for an idea if it's kinda what your looking for. no greensteel or raid loot yet, but is 32 point. can't really remember what starting stats were but think something like 16str 14con 16cha
Keep in mind helm is switched between minoslegends and wizardry 6 so to buff then switch. loosing 150 sp but gaining 20 hps and heavy fort.

**rage9** · 01-09-2010, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by tybear

You have to have a Dex of 15 for two weapon fighting.

While this is true, if you went 6 lvls of ranger like you had mentioned you would get the 2 weapon and improved 2 weapon fighting feats for free reguardless of your dex score.

and if you wanted to go higher then the improved 2 weapon fighting you would need a base dex of 17 anyway

**rage9** · 01-09-2010, 11:43 AM

Also looking at your lvl progression, you might want to change that a little to.
Try starting lvl 1 bard, then next 6 lvls ranger. In my opinion (and it's just my OPINION) bard lvl 1 to get max starting ranks in skills, then all ranger to get that tempest as soon as possible. it will also give you a better attack bonus at the lower lvls since ranger goes up by 1 every lvl.

I don't think, (again my OPINION), that power attack should be your 1st feat since it will lower your to hit bonus to much to be worth it at lower lvls. Plus you want to get tempest pre's asap. (dodge,mobility,spring attack)

if you choose to go with fighter lvls depending on how many lvls you take you might want to try taking them at the every 3rd lvl mark (in this case I guess lvl9, lvl 12 at least thats what I did that way you can get 2 feats at once)

personally I feel that only 8 lvls of bard kind of limits the spell choice available for ya but thats up to you.

As long as your having fun, thats all that matters in the end 8)

**Anderei** · 01-09-2010, 12:15 PM

Especially if you are not an experienced character builder, simply go pure bard. The bard is a pretty selfsufficient class already (Access to devine and arcane spells and a good-enough fighter) and welcomed in most PUGs (Best buffer in the game, a helpful addition in the CrowdControl and Healing department)

I'd raise CHA at least to 16 and put any levelups there, sonic burst and ottos sphere are so nice additions and make difficult fights easy if used correctly.

While one could argue for cases where odd ability points make sense, Constitution of 13 and Wisdom of 11 is IMHO a waste of build points. Raise constituion to 14 and reduce Wisdom to 8. Put the other 2 builds into Charisma. Reduce either INT or DEX to get more points for Charisma.

**C-Shell** · 01-09-2010, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by tc12

You need to be much less multiclassed. At 20th no party really wants a warchanter with less than 14 or 15 levels of Bard. 14 gets a respectable level of song ehnancements, and 15 gets the song that helps AC-types (DEX builds, Monks or Intimitanks.)

You could get 2WF as a Bard 18 / Figther 2. You don't need tempest or kensai. Those are nice lines in some builds but the increased bard levels I think do more for you solo or in party.

TC

well he doesnt introduce himself as a warchanter. he is a dps char. and having a bit of a warchanter is better than having no one at all. most parties arent looking that hard for a bard.

**Morgan_Aquila** · 01-09-2010, 11:05 PM

That's how I was looking at it, C-Shell.

Let me see if I can explain SOME of this.

~ Yes, the 15 Dex wasn't an issue because of the Ranger levels. And as rage9 pointed out, 3 level-ups (4, 8, 12) and I've got the 17 needed for GTWF. I'll look at the level progression and see what I can come up with. Yeah, PA at level 1 is kinda wasteful. BAB < 1 rules out Weapon Focus, but maybe Toughness or Extend Spell.

~Wis at 11 was for access to 1st level Ranger spells, notably Ram's Might. Is this not correct? While I agree that odd Stats do nothing for you to start out, planning APs to even them out is something I try to do. Mostly because since I AM new to the game I have absolutely NO confidence in getting Tomes or other Stat-improving items along the way. Lacking any kind of prescience as to items I'll eventually come up with I just try to plan without assuming ANY.

Now, taking some of your suggestions to heart I came up with an alternative... Not sure if I like it as much but it seems like its closer to what people think it should be.

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page

newdwarfwc 
Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Female
(6 Fighter \ 14 Bard) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 464 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 10
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    10
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         7                    15
Diplomacy             6                    23
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                    25
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     3
Jump                  3                    18
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               6                    21
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                0                     0
Use Magic Device      6                    25

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Enlarge Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV

Not sure about Enlarge Spell, though... figured if I was actually GOING to be trying to CC I might as well have some range on those spells.

**rage9** · 01-11-2010, 04:38 AM

Ya, I'd skip the Enlarge spell. Bards don't have insta kill spells, so not worth it as much. And since not many classes that do don't even take it makes it really not worth it at all, but that's just MHO, build your toon the way you want.
If you want to be able to hypno the mob from a mile away and deal with what ever makes the save and comes charging down the hall after you, makes for a solid SOLO strat.
Just be ready in party for the caster to firewall or fireball the mob, the cleric to sound burst it or the two handed great cleaving Barb to screw up all your well planned out cc is all

**Corebreach** · 01-11-2010, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Morgan_Aquila

Thank you very much. This is the kind of thing that should be in the Compendium. Changes everything.

Do YOU happen to know where they hide these little tidbits of information?

Page 19 of the manual.

**Morgan_Aquila** · 01-11-2010, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Corebreach

Page 19 of the manual.

This one? As opposed to the one that Turbine does NOT include in the game download? http://content.turbine.com/sites/www...ddo_manual.pdf

Got it, thanks.

**Anderei** · 01-11-2010, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Morgan_Aquila

This one? As opposed to the one that Turbine does NOT include in the game download? http://content.turbine.com/sites/www...ddo_manual.pdf

Got it, thanks.

"The Constitution ability score affects:
◊ Bonus hit points gained each level.
◊ Fortitude saving throws, for resisting poison and
similar threats.
◊ Wizard spell points and strength of spells."

Constitution affects SP and Strength of spells? This is an error, right?

**borgx** · 01-12-2010, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Morgan_Aquila

This one? As opposed to the one that Turbine does NOT include in the game download? http://content.turbine.com/sites/www...ddo_manual.pdf

Got it, thanks.

If you look in your DDO install folder, there should be a folder called 'en'. Inside are the different licence files, as well as, the manual pdf and readme.txt.

As a warning, my copy of the manual pdf in 'en' has a copyright year up to 2006. It's way outdated. Seems Turbine forgot to include an updated copy in any of the game updates.

**rage9** · 01-12-2010, 03:57 AM

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Ranger \ 12 Bard) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 432 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 21                   22 +6 stat item=28+rams might=30+rage=32+2 tome=34
Dexterity            13                 13                   15 +6=21+1 tome=22 +3 tome =24
Constitution         14                 14                   16 +6=22=rage=24+2 tome=26
Intelligence          9                  9                    9
Wisdom               10                 10                   10 +1 tome=11(enough for the only ranger spells you'll get)
Charisma             12                 13                   14 +6=20+3 tome?=22

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 17

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               5                 16                   20
Bluff                 1                  2                    2
Concentration         2                  3                    3
Diplomacy             1                  2                    2
Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                 22                   22
Heal                  0                  0                    0
Hide                  1                  2                    2
Intimidate            1                  2                    2
Jump                  7                 21                   21
Listen                0                  0                    0
Move Silently         1                  2                    2
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               4                 24                   24
Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
Search               -1                 -1                    1
Spot                  0                  0                    0
Swim                  3                  6                    6
Tumble                2                  3                    3
Use Magic Device      5                 25                   25

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 10 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 14 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 16 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 17 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I


Level 20 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III

Wondering if this was something like what u were looking for in the first place? 1st time I used it so don't know all the tricks 8(
Just remember to add +6 to all the stats for items your wearing and it didn't give the 8 ap at 20 so there are still 5 left i think?
only tome I used was a +1 cha cause for some reason it would let me use FoP feat unless I did but should be able to with out it in real game
if you don't care about haggle those points could be spent else where (balance,jump?)

Lots can be change around to fit your needs and wants did it late at night in about 15 mins so......

**Kaeldur** · 01-12-2010, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by tc12

You need to be much less multiclassed. At 20th no party really wants a warchanter with less than 14 or 15 levels of Bard. 14 gets a respectable level of song ehnancements, and 15 gets the song that helps AC-types (DEX builds, Monks or Intimitanks.)

You could get 2WF as a Bard 18 / Figther 2. You don't need tempest or kensai. Those are nice lines in some builds but the increased bard levels I think do more for you solo or in party.

TC

I agree with this... I don't see an effective Warchanter with less than 15 levels of Bard... And if you really really want another PrE, I wouldn't take 6 fighter/6 ranger cause you'll be missing out on the best of both... for example Kensei II has the surge which boosts your strength by +8. If you're really going for only 8 levels of bard, take only one other class and go to 12 with it!

Thread: Attempting a MC Warchanter build

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