Will this work?

[barongt]

16 Bard / 2 Barbarian / 2 Fighter

(These are for memory, I may be off a couple points, but this is the idea)
16 STR
10 DEX
15 CON
8 WIS
16 CHAR

I guess I was thinking all the melee-enhancing songs/buffs possible, wear heavy armor, swing a 2 hander.

Does that sound like a good buff/off dps and maybe some CC build?

I was also debating if I should use a 2hander or sword and board.

I know I left out some details, this is just a generic build idea. Thanks.

[Rusty_Can]

Does that sound like a good buff/off dps and maybe some CC build?

It depends on the features you are planning to take; furthermore, where are you putting your ability points at lvl 4, 8, 12, 16, 20?

One more question: I can understand 2 fighter levels, but what are you trying to achieve with 2 barbarian levels?

[barongt]

Well, I only need through lvl 16 Bard to get a couple 6th level spells, so i was just scratching for a couple good melee classes to splash in.

Barb and Fighter seemed like the best ones (assuming I'm not using two weapons).

Barb brings some nice hit-die increases, run speed, DR. Is there a better class for what I'm doing?

[Rusty_Can]

Melee-focused bards tend to multiclass; common splits are:

19 bard / 1 fighter (1 extra combat feature)
18 bard / 2 fighter (2 extra combat features)
18 bard / 2 rogue (evasion and trap skills)

Taking more than 2 levels in another class will not allow you to get Tier III Prestige Enhancements (yet to be released). A deeper-multiclassed split you can see around is 16 bard - 2 rogue - 2 fighter.

[barongt]

Melee-focused bards tend to multiclass; common splits are:

19 bard / 1 fighter (1 extra combat feature)
18 bard / 2 fighter (2 extra combat features)
18 bard / 2 rogue (evasion and trap skills)

Taking more than 2 levels in another class will not allow you to get Tier III Prestige Enhancements (yet to be released). A deeper-multiclassed split you can see around is 16 bard - 2 rogue - 2 fighter.

I understand that some people go 16bard/2fighter/2rogue....but it seems that since I don't want to use Two Weapon Fighting and don't care about traps/doors, I would be better served by 16bard/2fighter/2barb.

My question is, does this seem plausible for dps/buffs/cc as a bard?

And also, any thoughts about 2hander versus 1hander + shield for this build?

edit: Regarding the 18/2 build...I would probably prefer to build based on what is currently released, then if something new is more attractive down the road, I can true res.

[ShadowcatX]

Two levels of rogue are more about evasion than traps and doors. That said, I'd personally recommend 16 / 3 / 1 bard / rogue / fighter combo. Same BAB as 16 / 2/ 2 but with 1 less feat (less important since you're going for a 2 hander) and an extra d6 backstab to help bring up your dps.

[Braed]

You mentioned wanting CC. Conventional wisdom (I don't have first hand knowledge) is go full Bard if you want it to land unless you are going to rely on Fascinate. Also, your Spell Points are going to be pretty low at 16 Bard so it is going to be hard to keep up with your own buffs and light healing, let alone buffing others. Feat selection seems to be just as important here as your stats. Which feats are you going to take?

[barongt]

I haven't really decided feats, I'm just trying to see if this build is possible before I do it.

Assuming i pick the appropriate feats, I'm trying to find out if this is plausible.

And about CC/Heals....that's really kind of second hand. I want to mostly be a buffer/singer and DPS. If i can CC a mob or off heal at times, that's nice. But main function here is personal DPS and increasing the melee DPS of others (through songs/buffs).

I hope that's a more accurate description of what I'm trying to do, and may help you all tell me if 16 bard/2 fighter/2 barb is a good choice.

[Impaqt]

Two levels of rogue are more about evasion than traps and doors. That said, I'd personally recommend 16 / 3 / 1 bard / rogue / fighter combo. Same BAB as 16 / 2/ 2 but with 1 less feat (less important since you're going for a 2 hander) and an extra d6 backstab to help bring up your dps.

This is a Poor excuse many newer player make.

ESPECIALLY on a bard that gets a ton of skill points. Anyoen with 1 or 2 levels of rogue that didnt bother to put a few points into Open lock at least is a gimp. Seriously. Even putting 4 measly points in at level 1 (Like you should) allows you to crack most locks in the game.

4 Ranks
2 Dex (If you left it at 8)
15 Item
4 GH(Self Cast)
1 Focus Chant)
7 Tools
---
33 Open Lock Skill
d20
----

53 Potential with just 4 ranks. That covers about 95% of the locks in this game.

[Latharna]

16 Bard / 2 Barbarian / 2 Fighter

I guess I was thinking all the melee-enhancing songs/buffs possible, wear heavy armor, swing a 2 hander.

I was also debating if I should use a 2hander or sword and board.

Heavy Armor AND a shield? How exactly are you going to cast spells ?

Sure, a mithral light shield or buckler has no Arcane Spell Failure to it, but heavy armor has what, a 30-50% chance?

Even with twilight or mithral armor AND racial enchancements, I don't think you can negate the entire penalty.

Even with just a total 5% penalty, you'd be surprised at how often it hits. Sucks to flub a heal. :P

[barongt]

Heavy Armor AND a shield? How exactly are you going to cast spells ?

Sure, a mithral light shield or buckler has no Arcane Spell Failure to it, but heavy armor has what, a 30-50% chance?

Even with twilight or mithral armor AND racial enchancements, I don't think you can negate the entire penalty.

Even with just a total 5% penalty, you'd be surprised at how often it hits. Sucks to flub a heal. :P

Well, the thing is I really don't care to do much combat casting. The only casting I'll probably be doing is buffing and limited CCing (as I said before, that's pretty second hand). Other than buffing/singing, I'll really only be swinging.

Which makes me lean towards a 2hand weapon.

[Latharna]

Other than buffing/singing, I'll really only be swinging.

Which makes me lean towards a 2hand weapon.

Cap it off with Warchanter, but please save some baddies for the rest of us.

[Braed]

If you are new like me, I'd maybe just roll up a vanilla WC with 16ish Str, 15-16 Con and rest in Charisma and just play the class for a while. Use Blur/Displacement as your "AC" and just enjoy what I believe is the most fun class in the game.

When I first started, I designed all of these cool multi-class characters, and I was just waiting for the day when I could come to the boards, post my build, and then receive my accolades and virgins. The fact is I don't know enough about the quests/raids, gear and such to really build anything yet.

I'm sure there are some players who have been around for ages that have the gear, knowledge, and skills to make a 16/2/2 like that work. So to answer your question, yes I believe it is viable. I just know that I probably couldn't get it to work if I tried to do it.

RE: Heavy armor - I thought I read somewhere that not all of the spells are subject to ASF. If you aren't worried about combat casting, then I guess you will be okay.

[barongt]

If you are new like me, I'd maybe just roll up a vanilla WC with 16ish Str, 15-16 Con and rest in Charisma and just play the class for a while. Use Blur/Displacement as your "AC" and just enjoy what I believe is the most fun class in the game.

When I first started, I designed all of these cool multi-class characters, and I was just waiting for the day when I could come to the boards, post my build, and then receive my accolades and virgins. The fact is I don't know enough about the quests/raids, gear and such to really build anything yet.

I'm sure there are some players who have been around for ages that have the gear, knowledge, and skills to make a 16/2/2 like that work. So to answer your question, yes I believe it is viable. I just know that I probably couldn't get it to work if I tried to do it.

RE: Heavy armor - I thought I read somewhere that not all of the spells are subject to ASF. If you aren't worried about combat casting, then I guess you will be okay.

Good advice. I think in the tooltip it says if it has a chance to fail.

I'll just have fun with it....I'm probably going to try the 16 bard/2 barb/2 fighter build, not because it is the "best" build for end game but because it appears to be the most fun and useful.

If I reach end game and this build is pathetic, I can always True Res.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Calebro]

This is a Poor excuse many newer player make.

ESPECIALLY on a bard that gets a ton of skill points. Anyoen with 1 or 2 levels of rogue that didnt bother to put a few points into Open lock at least is a gimp. Seriously. Even putting 4 measly points in at level 1 (Like you should) allows you to crack most locks in the game.

4 Ranks
2 Dex (If you left it at 8)
15 Item
4 GH(Self Cast)
1 Focus Chant)
7 Tools
---
33 Open Lock Skill
d20
----

53 Potential with just 4 ranks. That covers about 95% of the locks in this game.

Totally agree.
I was in a run of WW with a new toon the other day. the 2/2 rogue fighter, after entering, mentions that he's not a "true" rogue and can't do the traps. He just took it for evasion.
Ooooooookaaaaay.
We'll make due, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Even if he dumped Int, he still would have had a ton of skill points, especially at that level. More than enough to throw at few ranks in and give it a shot.
When we got to the prisoners behind the rune I was even more confounded. His Int was high enough to get the rune. So what the heck did he do with all of those skill points?
I bet he maxed out Listen.

*edit:
And I was on my melee focused FvS, but I had CLW prepped. Why couldn't you have a few ranks in class skills?

[Inklings]

This is a Poor excuse many newer player make.

ESPECIALLY on a bard that gets a ton of skill points. Anyoen with 1 or 2 levels of rogue that didnt bother to put a few points into Open lock at least is a gimp. Seriously. Even putting 4 measly points in at level 1 (Like you should) allows you to crack most locks in the game.

4 Ranks
2 Dex (If you left it at 8)
15 Item
4 GH(Self Cast)
1 Focus Chant)
7 Tools
---
33 Open Lock Skill
d20
----

53 Potential with just 4 ranks. That covers about 95% of the locks in this game.

Totally agree.
I was in a run of WW with a new toon the other day. the 2/2 rogue fighter, after entering, mentions that he's not a "true" rogue and can't do the traps. He just took it for evasion.
Ooooooookaaaaay.
We'll make due, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Even if he dumped Int, he still would have had a ton of skill points, especially at that level. More than enough to throw at few ranks in and give it a shot.
When we got to the prisoners behind the rune I was even more confounded. His Int was high enough to get the rune. So what the heck did he do with all of those skill points?
I bet he maxed out Listen.

*edit:
And I was on my melee focused FvS, but I had CLW prepped. Why couldn't you have a few ranks in class skills?

Please do not read these two post and think that you are gimped if you didn't take lock picking. Its all preference really. There are other skills you can take that will make you a lot more useful to groups when used right then lock picking ever will. At end game you will still be short skill points to pick some locks. There is also an over abundance of rogues on every server that will be able to handle them at end game. Then to top it all off you will also be able to raise your UMD skill high enough to use knock wands to open chests if you really need to. If you want a very useful tatic while leveling that will still be used at end game you should put extra points into hide and sneak. It seems most bards don't realize playing songs does not bring you out of sneak. Being able to stealth into a room and fascinate it undected is GODLY. Plan for end game content not some low level chest in WW. You will be thankful when you reach level 20.

my advise on leveling skills:
-Take 1 point in tumble at level 1 then max out UMD, Balance, Jump, Hide, and Sneak. You can either dump the remainder of your level 1 skills into open lock, swim or even heal to get it out of the negatives.
-Get the Jump skill to 10 and stop
-Keep UMD, Preform and Balance maxed out in that order.
-Once the above are maxed and you have extras to spend each level start dumping them into hide and sneak. That should happen around level 6.

[Calebro]

I don't disagree on any particular point.

My point was that at that level there was no reason for him to not be able to do it. Or at least give it a shot. No reason at all. Heck, the first level max out points would have been enough, but he didn't even have that.

I was embarrassed for him.

*edit
nvm
I completely disagree with the part about not taking any ranks in OL.
If you take a level of rogue, you get access to certain "exclusive" skills that no other class gets. If you disregard this and don't put *at least* 3 ranks in each of them (with your ridiculous number of skill points) you have made a huge mistake. Period.

[Braed]

It sounds like he was building an Assassin with the high Int score so skill points should have flowed freely even with a 2/2 split. I had a high Int Assassin with a high Bluff skill (majorly underrated skill btw), and still had UMD, Hide, Sneak, Spot, Diplomacy and Disarm maxed with a ton of points in Search, OL, Balance, etc.

I'd be a little annoyed if a 2/2 Rogue couldn't do the traps and items in WW. I guess it is his character though. But if I was doing that I'd go out of my way to make sure everybody knew on the front end I couldn't do traps/locks.

[Calebro]

But if I was doing that I'd go out of my way to make sure everybody knew on the front end I couldn't do traps/locks.

Yeah, we were standing there at the acid trap on the gate, waiting for him to disarm it.
He asked us what we were waiting for!
Ummm.... YOU!
I'm not a "true" rogue. I can't do traps.

Not that we really needed that trap disarmed, but that's not the point.
At lvl 4, with 2 rogue levels, and the Int to get the rune (as we later see), you can't do traps?
FAIL!

[Calebro]

And I just realized that this discussion on skill points started earlier has completely derailed your thread.
My apologies.