Pick Kensai Build

[Sinni]

I loved imp trip on my 2HF Kensai over in europe and it's a feat not many people have. Additionally: i got more than eough feats (you'll see that on my feat selection...) But i need int for combat expertise and hence imp trip. On top of that i need dex for 2wf and i want max str. End of the story is, that i don't have much con, but i'll more than make up for it

One point i'm not sure yet: should i use light or heavy picks? As i'm going Kensai, i'll have to choose one of them. They are pretty much the same but light picks have 1d4 base damage where as heavy picks have 1d6, so it's 1 damage in average. Any idea if that is set off by the availability and price of light picks? And are light picks light weapons? (i don't have oversized 2wf)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 9
Will: 5

                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             18             
Dexterity            16             
Constitution         10             
Intelligence         12             
Wisdom                8             
Charisma              8             

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

Further comments:
This build uses 2 +1 tomes but this isn't a problem as you can buy them from the shop relatively cheap.
As you can see i got toughness 6 times, this should be more than enough to offset the low con and i got the feats anyway.
But because i have to take toughness on the normal feats (it isn't a fighter class feat) and because i want imp trip as soon as possible, this pushes the feats of the 2wf line further down the road (and i can't take greater twf on lvl 12 because i need greater focus for Kensai II on lvl 12). This may be a bit of a hassle while leveling, but it will pay out in the end.

A drawback is, that i can't have vorpal on my chosen weapon. So if i need to vorpal i have to take another than my chosen weapon. And stat damaging won't work that well either because of the low crit range.

Any comments or feats i missed?

[Jay203]

not that i like rolling fleshies, but i'd go with
16
15
14
14
10
8
for stats
you can grab +2 tome for dex by lvl 7 for twf line
human adaptability does give you +1 to str should you take it
16 base + 6 item + 3 fighter str + 1 human adapt + 4 lvl ups would net you 30 str
or 16 base + 6 item + 2 fighter str + 1 human adapt + 5 lvl up would net you the same and saving you 6 ap

[Sinni]

the wis i can understand, but why 14 int? and i don't think i need the con, i got toughness 6 times. and i prefer max str for the damage and trip DC. additionally: i don't want to plan with tomes i don't have for sure (+1 tomes i can always buy, not +2 tomes tough), so i need to start with at least 16 dex.

[FuzzyDuck81]

The only other thing I'd say might be useful is to drop the 2nd toughness at level 3 and take cleave - its brilliant at low levels for group dps and later on it'll let you swipe groups with paralysing etc. weapons which can be very handy - trust me, after being used to getting that happening from 2 handed fighting, you'll miss it when its gone!

[Jay203]

i'm used to going 14 starting int to pick up Combat expertise and extra couple skill points rather than trying to rush for +1 int tome asap
on a side note, if you really want to go for combat DCs, you should have gone with Dwarf or Warforged, they have potential +3 DC ahead of all other race

[esoitl]

You'd probably do better by going Dwarf or WF for the combat skills line. Both also have a CON line and a starting +2 which means you don't have to waste 6 feats on Toughness.

[baddax]

1) Why do you need improved trip? Most things will be dead long before they can get up.
2) With improved crit pierce stat damage is a very good option.
3) Pretty sure the kensai option works with all piercing weapons. So +1 crit range to all pierceing weapons is very nice.

[Demoyn]

and i don't think i need the con, i got toughness 6 times.

Hmm... maybe you should just start over from scratch, then.

[Sinni]

after speaking with some people i adjusted the build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 10
Will: 8

                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             18             
Dexterity            15             
Constitution         12             
Intelligence         12             
Wisdom                8             
Charisma              8             

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 5
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

i lowered dex by 1 and increased con by 2. and i bought a +2 dex tome, so i have one at hand to reach the 17 dex i need for the twf feats.
additionally i ditched toughness 4 times for oversized 2wf (+2 to hit), luck of heroes, iron will (+3 to will save, +1 to fort and reflex) and stunning fist


i know that WF and Dwarfs have enhancments to increase combat feat DCs, but to put it plainly: they are ugly Dwarf and WF are out of the question for me.

1) Why do you need improved trip? Most things will be dead long before they can get up.
2) With improved crit pierce stat damage is a very good option.
3) Pretty sure the kensai option works with all piercing weapons. So +1 crit range to all pierceing weapons is very nice.

1) imp trip has 3 effects: the trip can last up to 1 minute instead of 6 seconds, the DC is increased by 4 and the cooldown lowered from 15 to 10 seconds. together it is a really neat package. i had it on my 2hf kensai, basically just to test it and it turned out really useful. imo this feat pretty underrated.

2) yes if i take rapiers, but i'll loose a lot of the kensai benefits while using them. but you are right, it is a good option.

3) according to the description the crit range is only increased on your chosen weapon. at least in mod 9 there was a bug which increased the crit range of each and every weapon, i have no idea if this has been fixed in the meantime.

[baddax]

1) imp trip has 3 effects: the trip can last up to 1 minute instead of 6 seconds, the DC is increased by 4 and the cooldown lowered from 15 to 10 seconds. together it is a really neat package. i had it on my 2hf kensai, basically just to test it and it turned out really useful. imo this feat pretty underrated.

Been a while since I used improved trip, but if for nothing else than the lower cool down timer it might be worth it.Ill have to give this feat another look.

3) according to the description the crit range is only increased on your chosen weapon. at least in mod 9 there was a bug which increased the crit range of each and every weapon, i have no idea if this has been fixed in the meantime.

Maybe thats the bug I was seeing, not sure if its been fixed either. For some reason I was thinking the expanded crit range was supposed to be for all piercing weapons.

[argentstar]

One point i'm not sure yet: should i use light or heavy picks? As i'm going Kensai, i'll have to choose one of them. They are pretty much the same but light picks have 1d4 base damage where as heavy picks have 1d6, so it's 1 damage in average. Any idea if that is set off by the availability and price of light picks? And are light picks light weapons? (i don't have oversized 2wf)

The only other thing I'd say might be useful is to drop the 2nd toughness at level 3 and take cleave - its brilliant at low levels for group dps and later on it'll let you swipe groups with paralysing etc. weapons which can be very handy - trust me, after being used to getting that happening from 2 handed fighting, you'll miss it when its gone!

Please excuse a newb for interrupting your conversation, but I am considering the Kensai for my next toon and have a couple of questions for you experienced and knowledgable players.

First: Why Picks? I read over the Kensai in the Compendium and it doesn't mention any particular weapon or weapon type as specifically better than any other for this PrC.

Secondly: Why Cleave instead of Whirlwind Attack?

[Sinni]

Please excuse a newb for interrupting your conversation, but I am considering the Kensai for my next toon and have a couple of questions for you experienced and knowledgable players.

First: Why Picks? I read over the Kensai in the Compendium and it doesn't mention any particular weapon or weapon type as specifically better than any other for this PrC.

i chose picks for 2 reasons:
a) they are the only weapons in DDO with a crit multiplier of 4, with a Kensai you end up critting on 18-20. i played a falchion kensai before, which critted all the time (14-20), but the multiplier was only 2. so for once i wanted to see the big numbers pop up
b) I like a bit of uniqueness, and you don't often see players using picks.

btw: generally kopeshs are considered being the best weapons for str based characters (19-20/x3, but are exoctic and hence need a feat)

Secondly: Why Cleave instead of Whirlwind Attack?

Whirwind Attack requires Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack and Combat Expertise, i only have the 4th of those feats. Cleave (which works as a mini whirlwind in DDO) only requires Power Attack, a feat almost any fighter has anyway.

[Ariotis]

I was thinking about a similar build Sinns.

I will go pure WF Kensai Fighter with Heavy Picks. Taking Improved Trip as well, because i too find it very useful.

Thinking about getting 2 earthgrab HPicks sooner or later and going with DR instead of AC.

[Sinni]

btw this is my current build
i made some feat order adjustments

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 10
Will: 8

                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             18             
Dexterity            15             
Constitution         12             
Intelligence         12             
Wisdom                8             
Charisma              8             

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons

Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

the differences are that stunning blow is taken sooner now, greater weapon specialisaition is taken at lvl 12 (i thought greater focus is required for kensai 2, but it is specialisation and it requires lvl 12, so it has to be taken at lvl 12 to qualify for kensai 2 immediately) and greater 2wf and greater weapon focus have been moved back instead.

btw i'v got the char at lvl 15 at the moment and i'm having fun with it.