Seriously confused

[phalaeo]

Spike Growth. Not very useful, but lot's of fun especially for halflings.

Die.

-A Halfling


(I hate that thing)

[MysterX]

But in EQ, archery has gone the same way as in DDO. There just aren't separate paths. Those in favour of ranged damage don't like to admit that range itself is an advantage. You don't have to close with an opponent and in many cases take a lot less damage by way of kiting. EQ has gone so far as to add summoning mobs, creatures that when agroed tp their top opponent into melee range to limit the benefits of kiting.

Balancing is not as simple as giving all paths equal offense.

I think the reason that Turbine has been treading so carefully around changes to ranged combat in DDO is because that in some situations, it leads to AI and terrain exploits that result in almost no risk to the player. So even though it is generally agreed that melee damage per second is superior, ranged combat can be more effective when tricks like this are found. I believe they keep archery a bit weak so that fewer people are inclined to discover the holes in the system. As I recall, it was a pretty big problem in Asheron's Call as well.

PG, if you are really serious about switching to another game, and want a powerful ranged combatant, I would suggest Turbine's Lord of the Rings Online. It is pretty clear from that game that Turbine can make ranged classes powerful and in balance with melee when they desire to, but they are also not constrained by some of the D&D combat rules in that game.

[Ron]

The feats and enhancements are off because the planner does not accept Mental Toughness as a Metamagic. With some adjustment, I should be able to JUST fit in Manyshot.

I believe this is fixed in the most recent release of the planner (3.14), so you may want to pick up that if you want to get everything just right. I KNOW it's been fixed internally (in the 3.16 build) coming soon(TM).

At the time of 3.10, this wasn't really a bug. Mental Toughness was only recently made a metamagic feat

[adamkatt]

You know what, you are right. You have convinced me. Ranged combat sucks. And since it was what I enjoyed playing, I guess I will have to stop.

Thanks for making it easy for me to choose another game.

Goodbye.

Peaces!!!!!

[Visty]

Visty, I think you actually get what I am trying to accomplish, and this Bowbarian (pretty sure I have read that somewhere) seems pretty strong. I must assume that Cleave is pre-req to FBIII. Why no capstone? Isn't that +2 STR? I can see how there is a lot of synergy, and the damage would be pretty high. How does this build compare to Fighter Kensei and Pure Ranger builds damage-wise?

The only negative feedback I have is that it seems to not make use of a lot of the Barb's strengths, like Toughness and Damage Reduction, but then they should not be as necessary, being at long range and all. I might actually have to roll one up and play it to see if it has the feel I am going for.

Thanks again for your continued input, and not getting put off by my mob of hecklers.

for the capstone you have to be lvl20
that means no arcane archer
str+2 gives +1dmg
arcane archer gives 1d6
1d6>>1
thats why no capstone

also with the fighter level you get the lvl hasteboost too

how they compare...no idea
barb has more str and x6 crits
ranger has fav enemy dmg and faster attackspeed
fighter has higher critrange and lots of burst damage through hasteboost

[Zippo]

For combining Arcane Archer and Kensai, the two I like best are Fighter 18/ Ranger 1/ Bard 1 and Fighter 12/ Ranger 6/ Wizard 2. Though Fighter 12/ Ranger 6/ Rogue 2 isn't bad and gets Evasion.

My brains fried atm from spending the better part of this week trying to figure out what caused my desktop to basically implode (some luck but overall the desktop is fubar'd ) so if you could explain why the 2 wiz on the one build you suggested (in all seriousness, my brain right now can not cope in any fashion that requires any form of analytical thinking)

[honkuimushi]

My brains fried atm from spending the better part of this week trying to figure out what caused my desktop to basically implode (some luck but overall the desktop is fubar'd ) so if you could explain why the 2 wiz on the one build you suggested (in all seriousness, my brain right now can not cope in any fashion that requires any form of analytical thinking)

Basically, to save feats and increase your spell point pool. Magical Training will works as an alternative to Mental Toughness. You also get an additional feat at 1st level, with 2 caster classes with low caster levels, I like Extend. It also has the benefit of unlocking arcane wands. That's useful for Remove Curse and especially Flame Arrow.

The second level is because 13 Fighter doesn't do much, and while Ranger 7 does give 20 point resists, I liked 4 minute buffs better-- Shield and Expeditious Retreat in particular.

Some of the Enhancements are nice as well. The Spell point enhancement is available before the Ranger one and you have the Elven Wizard spell point enhancements as well. The first rank of the wand damage enhancements will give a 30% bonus to the heal wands you get as a Ranger. Finally, if they do allow some of the Elemental enhancements to affect the spell arrows, you will have the first rank available.

It's not critical and it costs you the chance at a 20 BAB, but it gives you 2 more feats and gives you a little more flexibility. I just liked it better than a Fighter 12/ Ranger 8. The Rogue 2 version gives you Evasion and the same flexibility through UMD, but I generally dumped Charisma and only took Int to 12. Maxing out UMD is a little tight with those numbers and with only an 8 Charisma you would probably need a Shroud item to be able to use Heal scrolls, which is the main thing you'd gain over the Wizard levels.

And in the end, it kind of came down to flavor. Arcane Archer is supposed to require a level or 2 of an arcane class. Something just seems missing without it.

[Lleren]

So I guess it's off to Everquest, then. Thanks for clearing that up that I was wasting my time with this game.

I will just be going now.

Cya

Everquest 2 maybe, but not Everquest if you want a mainly ranged ranger, unless something has changed in the last 6 months to bring back the PoP era levels of power Rangers enjoyed.

Even in Everquest 2 you will have to work hard to keep up with your counterpart class the Assassin, and most likely cannot.

[shores11]

Shores11, thank you for your fine example of a time you really should just keep it to yourself. You contributed nothing useful to the topic, were completely negative, and made me want to put you on squelch. Your statement that Fighters do not "need" Mental Toughness is invalid, as this one WOULD.

You sir are a one class build I want it all my way with no understanding of D&D or DDO. A fighter not needing mental toughness is probably the most VALID statement in this entire thread as NO whether you like it or not fighters do not need mental toughness. Do you think it valid just because you say so? Well it is not. My comments are not negative they are fact and many other players know it as well it is just you that doesn't.

You probably came from WoW or some other MMO because you were bored with it because all the players were nearly equal in accomplishments or abilities. You zerged your way to the games capps and then decided "I don't like the way the game is designed because its not customized to exactly what I want".

The good thing is that this game has not been like that (thank you Turbine). The sad thing is that Turbine has shown of late they are willing to simplify the game and allow players some ridiculous feats like the one you are proposing (Turbine please hold to your guns on some things to include this).

[Zippo]

Basically, to save feats and increase your spell point pool. Magical Training will works as an alternative to Mental Toughness. You also get an additional feat at 1st level, with 2 caster classes with low caster levels, I like Extend. It also has the benefit of unlocking arcane wands. That's useful for Remove Curse and especially Flame Arrow.

The second level is because 13 Fighter doesn't do much, and while Ranger 7 does give 20 point resists, I liked 4 minute buffs better-- Shield and Expeditious Retreat in particular.

Some of the Enhancements are nice as well. The Spell point enhancement is available before the Ranger one and you have the Elven Wizard spell point enhancements as well. The first rank of the wand damage enhancements will give a 30% bonus to the heal wands you get as a Ranger. Finally, if they do allow some of the Elemental enhancements to affect the spell arrows, you will have the first rank available.

It's not critical and it costs you the chance at a 20 BAB, but it gives you 2 more feats and gives you a little more flexibility. I just liked it better than a Fighter 12/ Ranger 8. The Rogue 2 version gives you Evasion and the same flexibility through UMD, but I generally dumped Charisma and only took Int to 12. Maxing out UMD is a little tight with those numbers and with only an 8 Charisma you would probably need a Shroud item to be able to use Heal scrolls, which is the main thing you'd gain over the Wizard levels.

And in the end, it kind of came down to flavor. Arcane Archer is supposed to require a level or 2 of an arcane class. Something just seems missing without it.

Little bit of sleep and this explanation helps it make more sense to me. Some of that I honestly for one reason or another never thought about.

[Tolero]

Here ya go Mr. Cube, New Year's Day dinner!