Planning a pure Pali, feedback welcome

[Delt]

It's been a looong time since I had a Pali and I want to roll one. They've been buffed up and expanded a lot since I last played one and I am not very familiar with the changes (especially the enhancements).

If you have any feedback or changes, by all means let me know -- just please justify it as well, so I can consider the advice on it's actual merits and learn a bit, rather than blindly following.

Few quick notes though:

- I want the Pali pure. No splashing for any reason (evasion, skills, feats, etc).
- I am reincarnating a Bard into a Pali for two reasons: the bard is an old failed experiment with a fair amount of gear and the bard's (-barian) equipment sync's nicely with the Pali class.
- Feats aren't optimized for order, I just took them willy-nilly. No need to worry about that. The second past life feat I know I probably won't take/keep...extend will probably make more sense (or even SF:UMD, depending where it ends up).
- Warforged is set in stone (gear issue and preference)
- DPS is more of a focus than anything else. I realize that TWF would be more optimal and would be willing to consider that...the only reason I went THF is because I had the gear already (minor issue, with Holy Sword) and I heard Pali extra damage procs 100% on glances. Plus it got a little tight trying to fit Kopeshes in.

All that aside, all feedback is welcome and appreciated. I am pretty noob when it comes to new Pali's.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 412
Spell Points: 275 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         4                    24
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            3                     4
Jump                  5                     7
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  5                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      5                    15.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Bardic Dilettante


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III

Primary current Gear
Head: Minos Helm
Neck: Open slot, Cartouche, Torc, Shroud Smoke/Guard, Shroud Haste clickies
Ring: Open slots for ToD rings.
Belt: Titan Belt, Open slot for KotC set?
Bracer: Shroud Fire x3 (HP), Leviks
Gloves: Titan Gloves, Spectral, Titan Grips
Googles: Shroud CHA+SP
Boots: Madstone, Gyro
Cloak: Open slot
Trinket: Bloodstone, HoGF
Body: DoD + too many Titan clickies
Weapons: MinII Fal, 3x Positive GS

[maddmatt70]

looks very good. Only observations is you may want to tweak your enhancements a bit and fit in extra lay on hands 1 or 2 and it would be nice although I know it is difficult to have a little higher starting charisma so divine might 3 becomes more possible and perhaps you can get divine might 4 if they ever come out with +5 tomes. I would go with 18 str, 15 con, 15 charisma, personally with a 34 pt build.

[Delt]

I admit, I thought the build would get more corrections (especially the enhancements which I'm pretty clueless about [smite, etc] and arguements for TWF).

looks very good. Only observations is you may want to tweak your enhancements a bit and fit in extra lay on hands 1 or 2 and it would be nice although I know it is difficult to have a little higher starting charisma so divine might 3 becomes more possible and perhaps you can get divine might 4 if they ever come out with +5 tomes. I would go with 18 str, 15 con, 15 charisma, personally with a 34 pt build.

LoH - I'll level with as many LoH's I can fit in, but end game I'm thinking I'll need it less (UMD recon scrolls). Definitely willing to re-evaluate that as I play my pali though and it's easy enough to change.

CHA - I like the idea of future-proofing for a +5 tome, but your original pre-edit math was correct...I'd need to drop CON to 13 to afford one more point in CHA (warforged). That's what? A 40HP drop at 20 (30 if I take away the CONII enhancement and put the points into the missing toughness IV).

The only other way I can think of is to go: 16STR/16CON/16CHA
I'm not sure trading in 2 points of perm STR for the CHA is worth it, but that's just cause I don't really know how a pali plays out. Is it easy to keep Divine Might always up (in which case, probably easily worth it)?

[excess]

Think of it this way - if the extra charisma nets you DM4, it's equivalent to +2 damage over DM3 at a cost of +1(.5 I suppose, when THF) damage from the str difference and +1 to hit (which, as a THF, you can safely ignore in most content)...

You also gain some a +1 to all saves over at 14 cha character, and x1 better multiplier on your LoH.

[shinmade]

I like it a lot. Remember the changes to the min lvl of tomes so try to get +1 Int at level 3 and a +2 at lvl 7 to make the most out of your skill points. Personally I like extend simply because being in full DPS mode on paladin depends on constant self buffing: zeal, divine favor have to be permanently on your buff bar. It is also nice for situations when extended resistances are needed, makes for happy casters and more nuking power for them. I wish there was a way to enhance the duration of the divine might.

Best regards.

[Morrissey]

Why all the skill points into concentration? Balance, jump, UMD all seem like better choices.

[Thrudh]

The only other way I can think of is to go: 16STR/16CON/16CHA
I'm not sure trading in 2 points of perm STR for the CHA is worth it, but that's just cause I don't really know how a pali plays out. Is it easy to keep Divine Might always up (in which case, probably easily worth it)?

It is easy to keep Divine Might running, and +2 extra damage on every swing is better than the +1 extra damage you get from strength...

Also, you're going to want a few extra Lay-on-hands... They are much better than scrolls, because

(1) they are FAST
(2) they heal more than scrolls
(3) they can't be interupted
(4) you don't have to put away your weapon to use them

Edit: forgot you were going THF... Maybe STR is better than CHA because it's 1.5 damage compared to 2 damage with no need to apply a buff.

I would recommend TWF for a DPS paladin, but WF THF probably comes close with the WF enhancements

[Aaxeyu]

but WF THF probably comes close with the WF enhancements

Not really.
WF paladin using two khopeshes without any TWF feats deal roughly equal DPS to a WF paladin using GA with the THF feats.
There were videos up some time ago.

[Thrudh]

Okay then... better go TWF OP... It really does make sense...

Divine Might, Divine Favor... doubled when using TWF

Smites, Divine Sacrifice... doubled when using TWF

[Dragavon]

IMO starting with 18 in a stat on anything but a caster build is not a good option.

Those 2 points cost 6 build points, its just too expensive, and not really worth it for just +1 to attack and dmg. I think a more balanced char is better in the long run.

Would also say TWF is better, but a WF with the WF twohander enhancements is probably good anyway.

[Dragavon]

I would do something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 422
Spell Points: 275 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 19
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            15                    19
Constitution         16                    22
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                6                    10
Charisma             14                    20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     9
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy             2                     5
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -2                     0
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -2                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                 -2                     0
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   6
Use Magic Device      4                    16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I

Enhancements could probably do with some polishing

[Delt]

Thanks for the feedback/advice. I essentially changed nothing (except skills, thanks for the reminder about new ml's on old tomes), mostly because the advice here clashed with advice in other pali threads which clashed with other threads....I simply didn't know what to do (mostly talking about Divine Might utility and the CHA 14 to 15/16 idea). Junts thread explained a lot about the class in general though.

I think I will regret not going TWF...but big deal, I'll try THF and do my 2nd reincarnate if needed. What's another grind?

Too early to tell how I like the build/class. A level 8 with greensteel weapons running through Delera's is overpowered no matter what. Still, capstone+DSIII+DMII+KotCIII+ToD set seems like sexy end game damage potential. I'm hopeful I'll like the class again.

[Murderface]

Thanks for the feedback/advice. I essentially changed nothing (except skills, thanks for the reminder about new ml's on old tomes), mostly because the advice here clashed with advice in other pali threads which clashed with other threads....I simply didn't know what to do (mostly talking about Divine Might utility and the CHA 14 to 15/16 idea). Junts thread explained a lot about the class in general though.

I think I will regret not going TWF...but big deal, I'll try THF and do my 2nd reincarnate if needed. What's another grind?

Too early to tell how I like the build/class. A level 8 with greensteel weapons running through Delera's is overpowered no matter what. Still, capstone+DSIII+DMII+KotCIII+ToD set seems like sexy end game damage potential. I'm hopeful I'll like the class again.

you might as well go thf i dont think you will be missing huge amounts of dps its just to stat spreading really to try to get devine might 4 on a wf and twf would make it extremly difficult altho maybe if you had a 38 point double tr then it might make it possible