Level 10 Rogue feats

[Uhtred_Stark]

Looking for some advice on what to take with my level 10 Rogue feat. I'm pure rogue going assassin path. My inclination is to take crippling strike. Does the +2 STR dmg stack with each sneak attack hit? Overall bonus to all skills +1 is obviously useful as well, especially the UMD. As is relex save 1/2 dmg. Any advice is appreciated.

[Timjc86]

My inclination is to take crippling strike. Does the +2 STR dmg stack with each sneak attack hit?

Yes. It also stacks with weakening and enfeebling. I take Crippling Strike first on my rogues, and Improved Evasion at 13 Rogue.

[Rusty_Can]

Does the +2 STR dmg stack with each sneak attack hit?

It does and it stacks with weakening, enfeebling and strength sapping; technically, after few sneak-attacks, "trash mobs" will have zero STR and all following hits will be critical hits.

Overall bonus to all skills +1 is obviously useful as well, especially the UMD.

Skill Mastery can seem interesting at low levels, but rogues usually don't need it later on; unless you are thinking to swap it at higher level, skip it.

You didn't state how many rogue levels you are planning to take; rogues get extra class features at 10, 13, 16 and 19. whatever you are planning, I'd say get Improved Evasion and Crippling Strike (which one first is really up to you).
At lvl 16, my rogues usually take Slippery Mind: rogues' will save is usually weak and Slippery Mind helps against Enchantment spells.

[sephiroth1084]

On my new rogue assassin (currently 14), I took Improved Evasion first, and Crippling Strike second (10 and 13 respectively), and from what I'm experiencing right now, I'd actually consider taking Improved Evasion and Slippery Mind at 10 and 13, waiting until 16 for Crippling Strike.

Here's why:

-There are a lot of traps whose boxes are found somewhere through the trap, meaning you'll need to make one or more Reflex saves just to disarm. I ran a VoN 5 elite the other day with another rogue, and while he had a better Reflex save than I did (multiclass Monk/Rogue), I was dying in traps less often since I even on a poor roll I was taking 1/2 damage. Also, you're going to always be subject to Reflex-based spells.

-Monsters still haven't gotten such inflated HP that you have time to drop their Str to 0 before they die. Out in GH even the toughest monsters tend not to get more than a few swings before they're dead if I have sneak attack on them. While some Str damage is worthwhile for dropping their damage and attack bonus, they just don't last long enough for the debuff to be very worthwhile.

-Failing a will save is one of the worse things that can happen to any character, and Rogue will saves are typically pretty poor. I know that most of my deaths come from failing a save vs. Greater Command, Otto's, Hold Person, Symbol of Stunning, Fear and Hypnotism--all Will saves.

Putting all of this together, it seems to me like Imp. Evasion and Slippery Mind are more valuable earlier, as they will be granting you their benefits, tangibly, for longer than Crippling Strike will. Certainly by the time you're in the Vale, though, Crippling Strike will be great to have, as many of the monsters there have over-inflated HP.

I'd probably not take Skill Mastery--the only skill that really benefits from it is UMD, as the rest of your skills should be high enough for almost everything, and blowing a feat for +1 UMD is fairly poor.

[baddax]

I went improved evasion,crippling strike then slippery mind.

[Uhtred_Stark]

Thank you for the comments. I'm going to go with improved evasion. Per the level question, I was going to go L20 rogue, but after reading up it seems the benefits after L18 aren't worth it vs taking something like 2 levels of monk.

[sephiroth1084]

Thank you for the comments. I'm going to go with improved evasion. Per the level question, I was going to go L20 rogue, but after reading up it seems the benefits after L18 aren't worth it vs taking something like 2 levels of monk.

The extra feats are nice, as well as the slight boost to some saves, but most of the other benefits aren't there unless you're already built to utilize them (high Dex and Wis). Also, Rogue 19 is worthwhile, as it grants both an additional 1d6 damage and another Rogue bonus feat (Defensive Roll or Skill Mastery). If you really want the feats, and/or can make use of the monk abilities, then, yeah, it's probably worth taking the 2 levels of monk, although, we may see a rogue capstone some day that doesn't completely blow...

[Draccus]

First time through:
Crippling Strike
Improved Evasion
Slippery Mind
Skill Mastery

After TR:
Improved Evasion
Crippling Strike
Slippery Mind
Skill Mastery

Improved evasion is very useful running elite quests with major trap damage and AOE spamming mobs. It's far more useful than -2 str on trash mobs.

[Rusty_Can]

I was going to go L20 rogue, but after reading up it seems the benefits after L18 aren't worth it vs taking something like 2 levels of monk.

Why two monk levels? Depending on your build, one monk level could give you some useful stuff (improvement to saves, Wis bonus to AC), but the second one isn't usually worth it on a rogue, imo. If you want 2 extra features, consider going 18 rogue, 1 monk, 1 fighter.

[Uhtred_Stark]

Per the improved evasion, did a lot of questing today on this Rogue and hit up elites on Xorian, the 2nd Mirra's quest and church and the cult. I've been picking up my assassin prereq's so I'm not a built to disarm but had no trouble except for skill boost search needed on pit trap in church. I blew the box in Xorian on elite sonic trap. But taking virtually no trap dmg, and it's balanced by the lead in kills in had in Tempests (maybe my shining ddo moment) and in stormcleave on elite hit up 59 kills, 2nd to ranger who put up 60. Bottom line, this is my 2nd toon but I love the rogue (other is fighter). Can do so much. Still have those cure light wnd wands that can be life savers at this level.

Best thing....parties saying, let's keep going on cause we got a good rogue in the party. Worst thing, I got denied a 2nd Tempest cause they didn't want another rogue who couldn't hurt things on a raid. Sigh..... Good and the bad.

L19 Rogue/L1 Monk is attractive now. I don't have a bad wisdom, but maybe I shouldn't got 2 levels of monk. My feat path looks like toughness, twf, wf, itwf and I plan on taking imp crit piercing, combat expertice and gtwf. That's it for my rogue feats so I'm not sure what else I would want if I had more feats to take for this build. An exotic wpn would be nice, been reading interesting things about the repeating xbows. Although on ranged, my rogue is a drow, and shouldn't the shuriken be at least as good as throwing daggers? Why do I get a shuriken feat when daggers are always better, so I never use it? Seems odd.

[sephiroth1084]

Per the improved evasion, did a lot of questing today on this Rogue and hit up elites on Xorian, the 2nd Mirra's quest and church and the cult. I've been picking up my assassin prereq's so I'm not a built to disarm but had no trouble except for skill boost search needed on pit trap in church. I blew the box in Xorian on elite sonic trap. But taking virtually no trap dmg, and it's balanced by the lead in kills in had in Tempests (maybe my shining ddo moment) and in stormcleave on elite hit up 59 kills, 2nd to ranger who put up 60. Bottom line, this is my 2nd toon but I love the rogue (other is fighter). Can do so much. Still have those cure light wnd wands that can be life savers at this level.

Best thing....parties saying, let's keep going on cause we got a good rogue in the party. Worst thing, I got denied a 2nd Tempest cause they didn't want another rogue who couldn't hurt things on a raid. Sigh..... Good and the bad.

L19 Rogue/L1 Monk is attractive now. I don't have a bad wisdom, but maybe I shouldn't got 2 levels of monk. My feat path looks like toughness, twf, wf, itwf and I plan on taking imp crit piercing, combat expertice and gtwf. That's it for my rogue feats so I'm not sure what else I would want if I had more feats to take for this build. An exotic wpn would be nice, been reading interesting things about the repeating xbows. Although on ranged, my rogue is a drow, and shouldn't the shuriken be at least as good as throwing daggers? Why do I get a shuriken feat when daggers are always better, so I never use it? Seems odd.

A couple of worthwhile feats: Skill Focus: UMD, Power Attack.

The first to help you hit the magic number for Heal scrolls, and the latter to improve your DPS further, especially against SA-immune monsters.

[Deusxmachina]

One problem with taking Crippling Strike is it's not necessarily something other party members see. If people start auto-critting trash, they may not even notice it. But they Will notice if you die from a reflex or will save.

Besides, we all know rogues aren't made for DPS and that's the "tank's" job anyway, right?

[PanicFire]

Why two monk levels? Depending on your build, one monk level could give you some useful stuff (improvement to saves, Wis bonus to AC), but the second one isn't usually worth it on a rogue, imo. If you want 2 extra features, consider going 18 rogue, 1 monk, 1 fighter.

Because monk bonus feats allow you to take toughness, thus 2 extra feats of toughness giving you quite a bit extra hp. Or you could sub in deflect arrows as well.

[BuyTiles]

Per the improved evasion, did a lot of questing today on this Rogue and hit up elites on Xorian, the 2nd Mirra's quest and church and the cult. I've been picking up my assassin prereq's so I'm not a built to disarm but had no trouble except for skill boost search needed on pit trap in church. I blew the box in Xorian on elite sonic trap. But taking virtually no trap dmg, and it's balanced by the lead in kills in had in Tempests (maybe my shining ddo moment) and in stormcleave on elite hit up 59 kills, 2nd to ranger who put up 60. Bottom line, this is my 2nd toon but I love the rogue (other is fighter). Can do so much. Still have those cure light wnd wands that can be life savers at this level.

Best thing....parties saying, let's keep going on cause we got a good rogue in the party. Worst thing, I got denied a 2nd Tempest cause they didn't want another rogue who couldn't hurt things on a raid. Sigh..... Good and the bad.

L19 Rogue/L1 Monk is attractive now. I don't have a bad wisdom, but maybe I shouldn't got 2 levels of monk. My feat path looks like toughness, twf, wf, itwf and I plan on taking imp crit piercing, combat expertice and gtwf. That's it for my rogue feats so I'm not sure what else I would want if I had more feats to take for this build. An exotic wpn would be nice, been reading interesting things about the repeating xbows. Although on ranged, my rogue is a drow, and shouldn't the shuriken be at least as good as throwing daggers? Why do I get a shuriken feat when daggers are always better, so I never use it? Seems odd.

Couple of points I'd like to make:

Improved evasion as soon as you can, by far the best rogue feat to get.

Crippling strike sounds nice on paper but trash mobs drop so fast it's kinda pointless as they're dead before any decent debuffs happen.
I'd take opportunist, skill mastery before crippling strike.

I wouldn't take 1 monk splash on a rogue as the rogue capstone adds a nice chunk of dps and bumps int, +1 to assassinate DC and skills.

I'd drop combat expertise as I doubt you'll end up with a worthwhile AC, even with monk splash.
PA is a good feat to replace it with.
ICiercing if you're rapier specced, your GS radII will thank you!

[unbongwah]

Because monk bonus feats allow you to take toughness, thus 2 extra feats of toughness giving you quite a bit extra hp. Or you could sub in deflect arrows as well.

You rezzed a 16-month-old thread for that comment? There are easier ways of padding your post count, dude.

[ArkoHighStar]

[suszterpatt]

GJ bumping a year+ old thread.


But since we're here, my 2 cp:

- Improved Evasion > *
- Slippery mind is decidedly meh considering the poor Will save on rogues. If you only have a 10% chance to save in the first place, another 10% isn't worth the feat. Of course, things change if you work on your Will, but I prefer not taking aggro from casters instead.
- Crippling Strike is good for draining STR, just be aware that STR-drained mobs are "helpless", and as such are subject to the U9 changes. Luckily, rogues are the least affected by these changes, and hey, it's still a helpless mob that can't move/attack.
- Skill Focus is underrated. :P

[destiny4405]

+1 to all skills doesn't mean much. that's why i took two skill masteries :P

[Razcar]

First time through:
Crippling Strike
Improved Evasion
Slippery Mind
Skill Mastery

After TR:
Improved Evasion
Crippling Strike
Slippery Mind
Skill Mastery

I think we have discovered why Draccus has problems getting the Opportunist Doublestrike to process...

[Ookami007]

Looking for some advice on what to take with my level 10 Rogue feat. I'm pure rogue going assassin path. My inclination is to take crippling strike. Does the +2 STR dmg stack with each sneak attack hit? Overall bonus to all skills +1 is obviously useful as well, especially the UMD. As is relex save 1/2 dmg. Any advice is appreciated.

Personally, I usually go with Imp. Evasion first... it helps with your survivability at that level. Next I go with Opportunist - it's just too nice to pass on.

Then I'd add Crippling Strike or Slippery Mind.

One thing to note with Crippling Strike... post U9, it will do 50% extra (3 pts) on a helpless mob.