OK so i tried to pvp

[Bbrik]

Ya ... Thats typically the "new method" now ! The good thing is is you can usually figure out fast whos working with who and try to remove the largest threat first !

About 2 months ago we had about 6 AI guys in a party and 6 Kinghts of Winterfell guys as well ..... It was a great time.

Well ... we started off talking trash ..THEN as the night went on ( either side having a couple more beers ) We formed a 12 man Wayward Lobster Group BUT left teams disabled !

It was alot of fun ...... and the chance of getting in the Crossfire of your own Guildmates Comet Falls etc actually made it that more fun !!

I had 2 guildies REALLY angry at me when I decided to leave improved precise shot on and took them out along with the intended target !!

OH well ................ GET OUTTA THE WAY !!

heh

Basically the purpose of this was to say, as much fun as it is to PvP .... its more fun to do it in groups ... even if you are PvP-ing the same people in your group !! Its also a great way to learn about whom you are fighting !!


GREAT ..... All this PvP talk and I'm supposed to Run VON 5-6 tonight ....... Hehe I'll be there Hema !! We should have a whack of AI toons around as well !

Well after 8flagging runs I better get a spot!!!! And I swear we need AI
vs hema nights lol.... And that's my pit all this talk of people in it while at school!!!!
Need some buddies to watchy pit and keep it warm (no many shot w/e when vs AI haha)

[sephiroth1084]

I will forget so I'll get it out now !!

Happy Bday on Sunday !!

Thanks!

Firestorms help vs. Meteor Swarm, but not Polar, which hits for between 400 and 900 or so damage.

So, with all that gear, you have, what? Mid-20s vs. enchantment spells?

****! Now I wanna PvP!

[96th_Malice]

On archery: Every pit has stuff to hide behind, or to break line of sight/effect. Also, it'd be foolish to keep jumping in a regular pattern, though I admit many people do just that. I don't. I'm not denying that you'd be able to hit with a couple shots from Manyshot--just that you wouldn't hit with enough to kill or enfeeble a well-played caster if they are concentrating only on you. Obviously, if they are dodging even one other person, then that likelihood goes way up.

Agreed 100% -- The key here is a "well played caster" .... which unfortunatley right now theres ALOT of "not well played casters in PvP". However I would not expect a caster or anyone to worry about a PvP specced caster when theres so moch more you can benefit from doing quests.

With that aside. Currently in PvP you get ALOT .. I mean A L O T of new toons claiming to be Tukaw builds ..... but really without Tukaw's gear and Tukaw actually running the toon himself its just a reasonalble facsimile of Tukaw !!

For the record sephiroth1084 ....coould you please stop typing this stuff and giving peeps tactical ideas lol !! ..... Most toons including casters dont even think to hop down to the lower lvl and start running around behind the walls breaking my line of site

Most of them ....... not even lying .... like 75%-80% chase me around while I am sprint boosted running backwards and kiting em around the perimeter of The Lobster wooden walkways !!

Makes my job easy cause distance works in my benefit !

[96th_Malice]

Thanks!

but not Polar, which hits for between 400 and 900 or so damage.

REALLY DONT LIKE THAT ONE LOL !!!

I need a bow form of that !!

[assamite]

Thanks!

Firestorms help vs. Meteor Swarm, but not Polar, which hits for between 400 and 900 or so damage.
Ill give you 1k for every polar ray you hit me with

So, with all that gear, you have, what? Mid-20s vs. enchantment spells?
27 vrs enchantments

****! Now I wanna PvP!

Cass... OMFG! are you serious! i have to get in range?!?!? if hese not a WF im going to dwarfen throw his ass to death! Its what i do to all the elf arcane lmfao thats why they dispell me XD i make them feel gimp

[sephiroth1084]

For the record sephiroth1084 ....coould you please stop typing this stuff and giving peeps tactical ideas lol !! ..... Most toons including casters dont even think to hop down to the lower lvl and start running around behind the walls breaking my line of site

Sure.

Casters in PvP:
-Buff before you jump into the pit: Displacement, Stoneskin, all resists, all protects, Fire Shield (both versions), Nightshield, Jump, Haste, Phiarlen Pendant of Time boost, Greater Heroism, Deathward (goggles clicky or otherwise), Rage, and if fighting other casters try to get Freedom of Movement from somewhere (depending upon how you feel about it, also consume the best food and drink from the tavern right before jumping into the pit as well)
-Keep all of your metamagics up and running: Quicken is especially important
-Make sure you have spells that: attack all 3 saves, do not allow a save, and ones that have no standard defense against
-MOVE!
-KEEP MOVING!
-DON'T STOP!
-More specifically, you should be jumping, strafing and running. Don't ever cast on the ground unless you are on the other side of the room from your target and no one else is trying to lay an axe in your head.
-Use cover. You don't need to have line of sight to your target for more than a second or two, so duck behind stuff, get furniture between you and your opponent, drop into another area (Lobster), then pop out just to toss a spell.
-Remember that persistent AoEs (Fogs, Firewall, Dancing Ball, etc...) and summons cannot be used in tavern brawls, so you might as well prep something else in place of them.
-Vary your attacks. It keeps people guessing and is more fun than just turning everyone to stone. That said, making your own statue garden is fun!
-Don't grief! Don't turn someone to stone and leave them there forever. That's just mean. Stone them, take out any other targets, then drop them.
-Prismatic Spray can be a random "I Win" button
-Spells that have a ring-effect space (Slow, Mass Hold, etc...) are pretty poor in PvP most of the time as everyone is moving around too fast for the ring to land on them, but it can be great as a sort of trap: as someone is running at you, jump in the air and cast the spell straight down, throwing the ring in front of them. Finish with a Dreamspitter or whatever else.
-Ray spells get kinda wonky if you try to cast at someone who is too close. Get some distance before throwing them out there. They also have a hard time hitting moving targets, but jumping and casting seems to have a higher success rate.

Melee
-Get as many buffs up as you can manage. Usually you won't have many. Get a buddy to buff you up if that's the game you're playing. Usually I go with a self-buff only sort of fight. Find some way of getting True Seeing, or you're pretty much screwed.
-Wear the Mantle of the Worldshaper!
-Boost your saves! If you have a saves boost from class or race, use it. Ideally, though, you're a paladin or monk.
-Take off your shield! Casters will rarely be swinging at your, and even more rarely will be able to hit your unshielded AC any better than your shielded, while you want to be clobbering them as fast as possible.
-MOVE!
-KEEP MOVING!
-You need to close the gap between you and the caster. Don't just run straight at them, because you'll die. You should be jumping and juking from side to side on your approach vector.
-USE TRIP! You will not kill a caster in one shot unless you're really, really beefy, or they are very very squishy, and you usually won't be able to get more than one or two swings in on a caster consecutively. Casters tend to have poor Str scores, which you can use to your advantage. Even someone without Improved Trip can knock down most casters long enough to kill them. I suppose Stunning Blow would work as well, but I haven't gotten a character with the feat into PvP so I couldn't say.

[96th_Malice]

Cass... if hese not a WF im going to dwarfen throw his ass to death!

Nothing like a good dwarf toss to make the PvP night complete !!

INTO the Pit with you !!

[96th_Malice]

Sure.

Casters in PvP:
-Buff before you jump into the pit: Displacement, Stoneskin, all resists, all protects, Fire Shield (both versions), Nightshield, Jump, Haste, Phiarlen Pendant of Time boost, Greater Heroism, Deathward (goggles clicky or otherwise), Rage, and if fighting other casters try to get Freedom of Movement from somewhere (depending upon how you feel about it, also consume the best food and drink from the tavern right before jumping into the pit as well)
-Keep all of your metamagics up and running: Quicken is especially important
-Make sure you have spells that: attack all 3 saves, do not allow a save, and ones that have no standard defense against
-MOVE!
-KEEP MOVING!
-DON'T STOP!
-More specifically, you should be jumping, strafing and running. Don't ever cast on the ground unless you are on the other side of the room from your target and no one else is trying to lay an axe in your head.
-Use cover. You don't need to have line of sight to your target for more than a second or two, so duck behind stuff, get furniture between you and your opponent, drop into another area (Lobster), then pop out just to toss a spell.
-Remember that persistent AoEs (Fogs, Firewall, Dancing Ball, etc...) and summons cannot be used in tavern brawls, so you might as well prep something else in place of them.
-Vary your attacks. It keeps people guessing and is more fun than just turning everyone to stone. That said, making your own statue garden is fun!
-Don't grief! Don't turn someone to stone and leave them there forever. That's just mean. Stone them, take out any other targets, then drop them.
-Prismatic Spray can be a random "I Win" button
-Spells that have a ring-effect space (Slow, Mass Hold, etc...) are pretty poor in PvP most of the time as everyone is moving around too fast for the ring to land on them, but it can be great as a sort of trap: as someone is running at you, jump in the air and cast the spell straight down, throwing the ring in front of them. Finish with a Dreamspitter or whatever else.
-Ray spells get kinda wonky if you try to cast at someone who is too close. Get some distance before throwing them out there. They also have a hard time hitting moving targets, but jumping and casting seems to have a higher success rate.

LOL !!!! AWESOME !!!!!

Now we need to get the DM's to remove this post !!

hehe

I'm off to find somthing offensive in here so we can have it locked and hidden away forever lol !!

Man ...... I am not getting ANY work done today !! Oh well...... Thats what Friday is for ... BUT as of right now I forsee it being a LONG night of DDO so Friday may be out for getting "real" work done as well as I may be sleepy

Oh well ...... thats what Saturday is for .... Catching up on sleep !

And so the cycle continues !

Actually ... Looking back up on your "what to do and not do list". You should spend some time with the 20+ casters that stand srill in PvP spamming magic missile at me then sending me tells cause I'm hacking

For the record ..... Sheild clicky counts as hacking I guess !!

[sephiroth1084]

Edited to add some melee tactics.

Probably should have been more explicit with one part:

BE A PALADIN!

Honestly, paladins are very well suited to fighting both casters and other melee. If your AC is high enough, many melee won't be able to hit you at all (most melee self-buff their attack bonus into the low 30s, which is not enough to hit ACs in the 60s or higher). Also, a paladin may only have 400-500 HP, while that multi-raged barbarian has 800-1,000, but paladins have Lay on Hands, which is good for another 300-900 HP. Suddenly that paladin has as much or more virtual AC than anybody else.

[Happosaai]

[I][COLOR="Lime"] Wow just when I thought it was not possible to turn myself into a BIGGER nerd ... I take the bait on Star Wars stuff !!

Where's my lightsaber when I need it?

[96th_Malice]

Edited to add some melee tactics.

Probably should have been more explicit with one part:

BE A PALADIN!

Honestly, paladins are very well suited to fighting both casters and other melee. If your AC is high enough, but paladins have Lay on Hands, which is good for another 300-900 HP. Suddenly that paladin has as much or more virtual AC than anybody else.

Ya ..... I wanted an archer with decent saves .. Danya is heading in that direction with 2 Ranger and so far 5 Pally. I am not sure of the end game for this toon yet, BUT I know the saves are much better already than a couple of my higher lvl toons !

She "was" a 28 point build ( 2 Ranger / 14 Pally ) BUT was built VERY poorly .... her only saving grace was the saves were amazing ! So she made the never ending re-roll list about a month ago !

So I am retrying the same build again with a little more insight on "how-to" build a toon that works for my game style ! And the 32 point advantage helps a little too.

No doubt Pallys work well in PvP ....... Except against Triple Neg Bows !

[assamite]

THW palidans are the I win buttons of PvP yes but, Being a THW dwarf fighter i can tell all other melee it is insanley easy to kill an arcane/devine. If i am not fighting a WF arcane or a squishy cleric i buff up to my 44str, throw on the pendant of time and destroy you with my Dwarfen thrower . You should see that thing in action with Quikdraw, madstone, fighter capstone, and 30% haste boost. I keep my distance and dodge your slow ass projectiles any Stoned hippy witha hangover could avoid. At this point you can choose 1 of 2 options.
1. Stay up top and keep taking 1d10+3+1+2+4+17+1d6 to the face
2. Jump downstairs... into my melee world and meet Mr. Supreme Tyrant.

Now if your a self healing cleric or WF... With the server lag it is imposible to DPS you to death with my Dwarfen thrower, as well as my greataxe because of the hopping around HAHA you can't hit me server lag teqnique. I admit i cannot kill you everytime you are good PvP but, i will give you a run for your money.

Step 1. being a Non healing PvPer is to secure your territory in the pit if you are going up against a WF arcane. Jump down and avoid all the casters spells as best you can and get distance between you.

Step 2. When you have secured your ground look that WF arcane in the face and start ****ing with its mind. It thinks it's the ****, It thinks its invincible use this to your advantage.

Step 3. Run at the arcane then change direction, they will fire off thier sequence of spells but all will miss you when you get good at reading hands. Slowly chip away at the ground between you and the arcane.

Step 4. When your close enough to jump to thier location you got em... but dont jump yet srint at them, as soon as thier hands move jump at them. Thier reaction will be to make you miss and they will jump, once they jump they are ****ed. keep moving sideways from thier face direction and determine where they are going to land.

Step 5. Just as they are about to land greet them with a nice warm trip victory.

When fighting a Squishy cleric skip step 1 and get straight to the mind ****ing. PvP takes practice no you don't get vertual items or recognition but, you do get hours of entertainment

[Tumarek]

Why the hell would Dispel Magic be considered cheating? If anything i would consider those buffed arcane frogs cheaters, but thats just DnD. It's a system where a caster gets stronger the more time he has to prepare and only a few things can stop him when he does have all the time he needs. One of these things is Dispel Magic (and some other pvp class combinations of course). And most classes dont even have this spell.

If it where me making the rules you could hardly walk and not jump at all while casting and for reference all my toons are casters.

Well DnD never was designed as a PvP system and so DDO will never be a good pvp game. So there is really no reason to have any rules (griefing excluded) in PVP areas. I would like to see a few tweaks for rogues there though. If a rogue cant sneak up on anybody he really wont have much fun.

[sephiroth1084]

Why the hell would Dispel Magic be considered cheating? If anything i would consider those buffed arcane frogs cheaters, but thats just DnD. It's a system where a caster gets stronger the more time he has to prepare and only a few things can stop him when he does have all the time he needs. One of these things is Dispel Magic (and some other pvp class combinations of course). And most classes dont even have this spell.

If it where me making the rules you could hardly walk and not jump at all while casting and for reference all my toons are casters.

Well DnD never was designed as a PvP system and so DDO will never be a good pvp game. So there is really no reason to have any rules (griefing excluded) in PVP areas. I would like to see a few tweaks for rogues there though. If a rogue cant sneak up on anybody he really wont have much fun.

My feelin about Dispel Magic is that it makes things much too easy, and is something that is very difficult to defend against. Any non-caster who steps in with buffs is gonna get them stripped, and then they're probably going to fail whatever save comes up next. It makes the playing field even more uneven, as it means that no one will be able to move as fast, or land a hit through displacement, or absorb any spell damage, etc...

Casters already rule the day even when everyone else comes in buffed to the nines. Tipping that scale so much further feels like cheating.

[Corstaad]

Think this is a great example on why Arena's dont work for any PvP games. He knows your coming and plans around seeing you. He has a answer for everything you bring. DDO just wasn't made for PvP which was stated from the very beginning. Unless they want to develop some kinda "wastelands" where we dont fight in a box spending any time on PvP development is worthless.

[assamite]

Why the hell would Dispel Magic be considered cheating? If anything i would consider those buffed arcane frogs cheaters, but thats just DnD. It's a system where a caster gets stronger the more time he has to prepare and only a few things can stop him when he does have all the time he needs. One of these things is Dispel Magic (and some other pvp class combinations of course). And most classes dont even have this spell.

If it where me making the rules you could hardly walk and not jump at all while casting and for reference all my toons are casters.

Well DnD never was designed as a PvP system and so DDO will never be a good pvp game. So there is really no reason to have any rules (griefing excluded) in PVP areas. I would like to see a few tweaks for rogues there though. If a rogue cant sneak up on anybody he really wont have much fun.

Dispell is cheap, and if you use it on me youll have my red dot pointing at your forhead for the rest of your vertual life. Madstone cant be dispelled and thats all i need with a dwarfen thrower to take out a non healing squishie.

[alexthegood]

U do realize there are more pvp pits all over the city go 2 1 of those if u want 2 fight yr friends. When i want 2 test something or beat on a guildie I go to the phoenix tavern almost never any1 in the pit there.

me to! whats you user name ?

[h4x0r1f1c]

he shows up and makes everyone have to leave. he's technically greifing ppl

Are you talking about me?