Opinions Needed: 2 Rogue \ 18 Cleric

[Jaellra]

Hi! This is my very first build. I've only been playing for about 2 months, so be kind please She's already almost lvl 7, I love playing her, and I don't plan on re-rolling again. I was following another build, but I switched out nimble fingers for toughness, changed some of the enhancements, and since the first build only went to level 16, I had to make up the rest myself, and I have leftover enhancement points I had no idea what to do with. So, could I get some opinions from some veteran players please?

Thank you!
Jaellra

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Taffi Wolfblade
Level 20 Neutral Good Elf Female
(2 Rogue \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 278
Spell Points: 1465 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            14                    16
Constitution         12                    16
Intelligence         16                    18
Wisdom               14                    21
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         3                     7
Diplomacy             3                     3
Disable Device        7                    28
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     5
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            3                     3
Jump                  6                     6
Listen                2                     7
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                    20
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     4
Search                7                    18
Spot                  6                    23
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                6                     7
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration II


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)

[Gol]

Some stuff you could spend APs on:
Wand/Scroll Mastery 4

For your level 18 feat, I'd also recommend another metamagic enhancer. Empower Healing or plain Empower. Your Wis isn't so high that I'd recommend Empower, though, so pick up Empower Healing @ 18.

Then, you'll want to put some APs into Empower Healing Efficiency so that it doesn't cost as much, and run the Hound raid to get an EHE item. If you load up on it all, it only costs like 2-3 SP per cast to have Empower Healing turned on.

[Jaellra]

Some stuff you could spend APs on:
Wand/Scroll Mastery 4

For your level 18 feat, I'd also recommend another metamagic enhancer. Empower Healing or plain Empower. Your Wis isn't so high that I'd recommend Empower, though, so pick up Empower Healing @ 18.

Then, you'll want to put some APs into Empower Healing Efficiency so that it doesn't cost as much, and run the Hound raid to get an EHE item. If you load up on it all, it only costs like 2-3 SP per cast to have Empower Healing turned on.

Thank you for the info, I appreciate it and will plan that for 18.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Just a note, you will probably want to shoot for having your Search skill maxed once you reach 20 if you intend to handle traps at that point. Though it is important to have Disable Device high as well, Search is even more important because you can't even attempt to disable a trap if you can't find the box. If you're tight on skill points, Spot is a skill you can skimp on more because your wisdom will still be a lot higher than most any rogue. Also, UMD is less important for a build like this because you will already be able to use raise dead and heal scrolls without a check... But it's worth keeping UMD high-ish if you can. And if you don't plan to have Quicken turned on all the time, you should try to max out your concentration.

[Impaqt]

Just a note, you will probably want to shoot for having your Search skill maxed once you reach 20 if you intend to handle traps at that point. Though it is important to have Disable Device high as well, Search is even more important because you can't even attempt to disable a trap if you can't find the box.

Witht he "Find Traps" Spell, he gets an additional +9 Search Skill. THeres no need to max out Search.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Witht he "Find Traps" Spell, he gets an additional +9 Search Skill. THeres no need to max out Search.

Really, Find Traps scales up that high? I thought it was capped at a lowish number, like +3. Not that I've ever had a character who could make use of it other than from a scroll. If you're right, that is certainly a big boost to cleric/rogues.

[captain1z]

top of my head what about cleric 17/ monk 2/ rogue 1


rogue at 1st
monk at 2-3
then cleric all the way

still have access to 8th level spells
still have evasion
gains 2 feats
gains +10 to AC via wisdom
uses all your dex potential
water stance would bump your wisdom by +2
no one would think you were a healer until you hit 13th level


would have to be lawful good
would need access to monks
you would be a pretty bad healer until you hit 13th


otherwise your build would be unchanged

[tc12]

top of my head what about cleric 17/ monk 2/ rogue 1

The OP stated the build wasn't going to be re-rolled, but assuming the post is for educational purposes as well as helping others who may be considering similar builds I would also point out that instead of 32 pt elf a drow could have same first 5 stats and CHA 10, ie a net of 2 extra build pts. But I really don't like the 14 STR / 12 CON, I'd rather have seen 10 STR / 14 CON. Even as a non-melee evasion build.

16 WIS and the lack of spell pen feats/enh means weak casting, so I agree with the Empower Healing recommendation. Keep Maximize and Empower Healing on all the time, but use Quicken only when needed for to ensure non-interrupted casting. Run Hound as was said above but try for the VoD gloves too (cheaper Maximize). Having the SP saving on both meta feats will make for very efficient healing.

Aside from using blade barrier and commetfall (which still get aided by Maximize), this build is really a healbot with trap skills. I don't say that as a negative, there's nothing wrong with a well-played healing cleric.

[Jaellra]

Thank you all for your input! I've just recently started grouping with other players, and from what I've been told it looks like I am going to have to re-roll. I'll keep Taffi around for my own fun, but for grouping and raids in the future I guess I'll go with a pure cleric. Thank you all again!

[Impaqt]

Thank you all for your input! I've just recently started grouping with other players, and from what I've been told it looks like I am going to have to re-roll. I'll keep Taffi around for my own fun, but for grouping and raids in the future I guess I'll go with a pure cleric. Thank you all again!

Why?

THis build is very similar to my ROgue Cleric.. I suspect mine was the basis. WHile Steelyn isnt my primary cleric by any streatch, she can heal though every raid just fine and is an Excellent soloer.

[tc12]

I'm with Impaqt. I hope my post above wasn't part of your thinking you'd need to re-roll, I was just clarifying what this build is and isn't good at. No build can do everything. My own cleric is a Drow that I started very early on, and I started 12 CON and either 16 or 17 WIS. (3 years ago spell pen issues couldn't be anticipated...)

Now sure if I had time to level a new cleric I'd do things a bit different, but a build like this can be effective still in end-game content. Like I said, empower healing plus maximize on all the time and your mass cures will be very efficient. You have evasion to help make sure you're alive and healing through quests with lots of AoE damage, and your rogue skills add a dimension that while often they'll go unused will definately come in handy.

If you want to level a *second* cleric, you'll find this very handy later to have more than one, given the ~3 day raid timers. Make that one a human max WIS decent CON healer/caster if you like, or a cleric that can melee, or whatever else seems fun to you. But don't scrap this one, it'll continue to play just fine.

TC

[Jaellra]

Whew! Thank you Impaqt and tc12 for your additional comments. Yes, I used your cleric/rogue build Impaqt, you do great work! It wasn't anything anyone here said that had me changing my mind about a re-roll but ppl I grouped with over the last few days. I was told I would have trouble finding groups and raids at higher levels with Taffi, which really bummed me out cause I love playing her. But then Ministry told me to keep playing Taffi so I decided I will, and your additional comments just help to reinforce that! I was thinking about re-doing my enhancements again. I'm going to switch out Follower of the Sovereign Host to Follower of the Undying Court so I can then get Undying call, plus I hear scimitars are better than longswords? At any rate, will be good to have the raise dead. So, empower healing, I'll get it at 18, or should I rearrange my feats to get it earlier? I can then use some extra enhancement points to bump up empower healing.

tc12, if I was to make a cleric/caster, what would you recommend? Or a caster/whatever. I started a pure human wizard cause I really wanted more of a caster than melee, but dang, it's hard going at lvl 4, and the groups she's tried so far have been complete idiots. I can never seem to find a build for exactly what I'm looking for, and I still don't really know enough of the game to create my own builds heh. I'm trying though!

I've tried several of Impaqts builds, and really, they are great, but I loved the cleric/rogue the most! For whatever reason, most of my builds have a splash of rogue in them, heh, but none really stuck except Taffi and Lyrelain, who is a 5Bard/1Rogue right now. I like to multiclass, I find it very difficult to play pure classes, maybe because I solo, ALOT, because most of the groups I've been with the last few days have been horrible, except for like 2 different groups. I don't like warforged. I'm a girl, so sadly appearances matter a wee bit, and I think warforged are so ugly!

Anywho, long winded I know! Thanks again to everyone that offered opinions and advice, I really do appreciate it!

Jaellra

[Impaqt]

Don't let Uma catch you dis'n Warforged!


People who base their commentary on a character solely on the Level makeup or goal are generally pretty short sighted.

A Cleric, whether pure or multiclass, when played well, Is welcome in every group and raid.

[Samiusbot]

Only bad players will say that you need to be something else. If they were better they wouldn't need your help so much.

I find that after a point, unless you make a bad rep for yourself, you will be granted a trial run in any group of good players you want to group with. If you made it to level X then you are a good player or a great piker and I will risk grouping with you to find out.

And great and poor players a like get friended with a comment of good or bad, sometimes a little more detail, so if a name stands out I hit the friends list.

Just play the Pc you love and be the best you can. You will find the circle of players you want to be in, don't be afraid to take friendly advice or carry jerk stones around in your pack or just drop after making a note about the jerk in your friends list.

[Renvar]

I notice that it looks like you took your 5 level up stat bumps and put 2 in Con, 1 in Int, and 2 in Wis. If you have not already done the Con and Int bumps you might want to rethink and put them all in Wis. More SP, better Spell DC will make you a more powerful caster at end game. Unless you need the skill points from the Int bump to keep search, disable, UMD, and concentration up (which I don't know that you should) then I would push your Wisdom to 24 and get that extra +2 on the spell DC and the extra SP.

[Jaellra]

I notice that it looks like you took your 5 level up stat bumps and put 2 in Con, 1 in Int, and 2 in Wis. If you have not already done the Con and Int bumps you might want to rethink and put them all in Wis. More SP, better Spell DC will make you a more powerful caster at end game. Unless you need the skill points from the Int bump to keep search, disable, UMD, and concentration up (which I don't know that you should) then I would push your Wisdom to 24 and get that extra +2 on the spell DC and the extra SP.

Posting from work so I don't have my character sheet in front of me. I'm pretty sure I upped INT at level 4. I was then going to do CON at 8 and 12 is it? Then WIS the last two levels. I was following a specific build by Impaqt, but decided to go in some different directions than his build did, taking the toughness to get me more HP's. Haven't re-spec'd my enhancements yet again, heh, I think I've already done that 2 or 3 times, but I plan on doing that in the next couple of days. Hmm, so actually, should I put the last 3 stat bumps into WIS? I already did the lvl 8 into CON, but don't you get the bonuses from having even numbers? Like if my CON stays odd, I'll never get the HP bump from having CON at 16, and my WIS will be 1 short so I'll be losing out on that as well yes? Never been a numbers girl, my hubby figures out all the mechanics of the games we played, EQ, WoW, but I can't get him to play DDO ;/

Thanks for your input DDOTalk71!

Jaellra

[Impaqt]

Posting from work so I don't have my character sheet in front of me. I'm pretty sure I upped INT at level 4. I was then going to do CON at 8 and 12 is it? Then WIS the last two levels. I was following a specific build by Impaqt, but decided to go in some different directions than his build did, taking the toughness to get me more HP's. Haven't re-spec'd my enhancements yet again, heh, I think I've already done that 2 or 3 times, but I plan on doing that in the next couple of days. Hmm, so actually, should I put the last 3 stat bumps into WIS? I already did the lvl 8 into CON, but don't you get the bonuses from having even numbers? Like if my CON stays odd, I'll never get the HP bump from having CON at 16, and my WIS will be 1 short so I'll be losing out on that as well yes? Never been a numbers girl, my hubby figures out all the mechanics of the games we played, EQ, WoW, but I can't get him to play DDO ;/

Thanks for your input DDOTalk71!

Jaellra

Your Biggest mistake is the Level bumps in CON. Level up points are far too valuble to waste on minor parts of the build. this is not a HP Build. Evasion and Self healing means you can keep yourself upright failrly easily. 20 Extra Hit points doesnt do you as much good as an extra DC on your Spells or Extra Skill points for your Rogue Skills.

ALways try to put level up points into your Highest Stat. You maxed that stat for a reason inthe beginning. WHy go away from that?

[Jaellra]

Your Biggest mistake is the Level bumps in CON. Level up points are far too valuble to waste on minor parts of the build. this is not a HP Build. Evasion and Self healing means you can keep yourself upright failrly easily. 20 Extra Hit points doesnt do you as much good as an extra DC on your Spells or Extra Skill points for your Rogue Skills.

ALways try to put level up points into your Highest Stat. You maxed that stat for a reason inthe beginning. WHy go away from that?

So, have I messed up totally? I mean, I guess I could re-roll her, she is only 9, but gosh it feels like it took forever to get there! Should I just go back to the original build and follow that again but still do the Undying court? I won't have the +1INT, +2CON, and +2WIS tomes to work with a second time around though.

Thanks!

Jaellra

[Jaellra]

Only bad players will say that you need to be something else. If they were better they wouldn't need your help so much.

I find that after a point, unless you make a bad rep for yourself, you will be granted a trial run in any group of good players you want to group with. If you made it to level X then you are a good player or a great piker and I will risk grouping with you to find out.

And great and poor players a like get friended with a comment of good or bad, sometimes a little more detail, so if a name stands out I hit the friends list.

Just play the Pc you love and be the best you can. You will find the circle of players you want to be in, don't be afraid to take friendly advice or carry jerk stones around in your pack or just drop after making a note about the jerk in your friends list.

Thanks Samiusbot! I love playing Taffi, so I'll stick with her!

[Ministry]

Hey... Firstly, TY for all the great posts in respect to this OP.

I helped her out last week in a few ways and it's great to see all the excellent advice so far.

Jaellra, I'm so glad you didn't re-roll like those puggers told you to... the ones you teamed with on the weekend... not these puggers above...



This was a very well thought out build and will serve you well.

The best advice I've seen so far is on this thread.

I like the one idea someone posted about 17 Cleric, 2 Monk and 1 Rogue. That has potential, but you will have to do what many have stated and start focusing on taking Wisdom the rest of the way through. The problem with this is, you wanted to be able to melee with your long swords, which will mess up your monk stance. As you get up higher levels, without Con, you won't be able to melee as much as I think you wanted to, which means the monk idea is a good one, and subsequently the wisdom focus.

Also, as stated above... Quicken, Maximize and Empower healing... All good.

I know you wanted more Intelligence to help your Rogue skills, but it comes down to this... DON'T TRY TO DO TOO MUCH or BE TOO MUCH.

You want to be able to be a Cleric, Rogue and Tank all in one. It's very challenging to be all things at all times.

You will have to pick 2 at most, or you will be a jack of all trades and master of nothing.

You know I like you and think you will be an amazing end game player, so now is the time to think about your "end game" character.

You still have time.

What is it that you want to do?

Do you want to be a:

Cleric with excellent Rogue skills
Tank with ability to heal
Cleric with a little bit of rogue and tanking abilities
?

Any of these are still feasible.

Tell us what you want to be / envision at the end.

Then we can help better.



Chat soon.