Trap monkey stats

[Anklenibbler]

assuming you want to be considered a trapmonkey *get invited to open doors and traps* what starting stats should be minimuums? *obviously not all 28/32 points just ones needed*

[Visty]

16str, 14con, 14int 14 dex as minimum id say

[Sohjin]

In a similar vein (I think) to the OP, I've been wondering if there is a resource available that gives the DCs on traps? I assume they are linked in someway to the level of the quest and the difficulty that you are running. I seem to be unable to find the boxes on the occasional elite run - disabling less of an issue as long as I don't roll a 1.

[Visty]

the thing is, rogues arent trapmonkeys

if you built your rogues as trapmonkey, youre a waste of a spot

start with 14 int/dex, keep your skills maxed and get the best gear you can find, and youre set

also a 1 doesnt make the box blow, there are no crititcal failures on skills. boxes blow when you roll 5 or more under the DC

[Cap_Man]

In a similar vein (I think) to the OP, I've been wondering if there is a resource available that gives the DCs on traps? I assume they are linked in someway to the level of the quest and the difficulty that you are running. I seem to be unable to find the boxes on the occasional elite run - disabling less of an issue as long as I don't roll a 1.

Here are 3 User Written guides you might want to take a look at:

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Is_my...l)_high_enough

This one discusses the high water mark for various rogue skills.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/How_d...l)_high_enough

This one shows how to get Disable, Search, Spot and Open Lock ridiculously high. Word of warning on this one, don't expect to get every single boost described here. For example, under Disable Device there are 18 different boosts listed, I have 7 of those at level 20 and get probably 99%+ of the traps in the game (Haven't tried all the new stuff yet) and my rogue is an assassin, not a trap monkey

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Notes..._Dancing_Rogue

This one is probably the best all around rogue guide out there. If you are only going to read one of these 3 guides, this is the one you want

[Vormaerin]

The short version is any rogue and most splash rogues *can* do everything a trapmonkey needs to do if they want to. So the real question is what else are you doing when there aren't traps or locks to worry about?

Trapmonkey is a very part time role and you really don't need to do anything special to fill it as long as you keep your Spot/Search/Disable Device max ranks, invest decently in Open Locks, and keep up with the +skill equipment for your level. All those other modifiers are only needed for the splash rogues who want to keep up.

[donny77]

The short version is any rogue and most splash rogues *can* do everything a trapmonkey needs to do if they want to. So the real question is what else are you doing when there aren't traps or locks to worry about?

Trapmonkey is a very part time role and you really don't need to do anything special to fill it as long as you keep your Spot/Search/Disable Device max ranks, invest decently in Open Locks, and keep up with the +skill equipment for your level. All those other modifiers are only needed for the splash rogues who want to keep up.

I see this advice all the time but it just doesn't work. I am a level 10 rogue, at level 7 had trouble in Gwains, went and bought +5 Search/Spot/Disable gear and +3 open lock. While leveling to 10 I looted +7 Search/Spot/Disable/Open Lock. Later I looted a +10 Spot item. Since I looted it I consider it level appropriate. I have +3, +4 and +5 tools. I am Drow and have 20 dex and 16 int. Problem is Spot is Wis based which leaves it several ranks behind my other skills after bonuses. I haven't failed a trap or failed to find a box in a while, don't even blow on a 1 but Spot is killing me. I am not spotting the trap. Tools don't boost spot, action boost probably does but you can't keep it active all the time. I have a +2 Wis item, trying to find a +4. Am I doing something wrong?

[bobbryan2]

I see this advice all the time but it just doesn't work. I am a level 10 rogue, at level 7 had trouble in Gwains, went and bought +5 Search/Spot/Disable gear and +3 open lock. While leveling to 10 I looted +7 Search/Spot/Disable/Open Lock. Later I looted a +10 Spot item. Since I looted it I consider it level appropriate. I have +3, +4 and +5 tools. I am Drow and have 20 dex and 16 int. Problem is Spot is Wis based which leaves it several ranks behind my other skills after bonuses. I haven't failed a trap or failed to find a box in a while, don't even blow on a 1 but Spot is killing me. I am not spotting the trap. Tools don't boost spot, action boost probably does but you can't keep it active all the time. I have a +2 Wis item, trying to find a +4. Am I doing something wrong?

Yes... trap skills are very equipment intensive...

That's yet one of a million reasons why rogues aren't good for brand new players.

[honkuimushi]

I see this advice all the time but it just doesn't work. I am a level 10 rogue, at level 7 had trouble in Gwains, went and bought +5 Search/Spot/Disable gear and +3 open lock. While leveling to 10 I looted +7 Search/Spot/Disable/Open Lock. Later I looted a +10 Spot item. Since I looted it I consider it level appropriate. I have +3, +4 and +5 tools. I am Drow and have 20 dex and 16 int. Problem is Spot is Wis based which leaves it several ranks behind my other skills after bonuses. I haven't failed a trap or failed to find a box in a while, don't even blow on a 1 but Spot is killing me. I am not spotting the trap. Tools don't boost spot, action boost probably does but you can't keep it active all the time. I have a +2 Wis item, trying to find a +4. Am I doing something wrong?

The answer, maybe. I'm assuming your Rogue skills are all maxed. What was your initial wisdom? If you took an 8, expect to have some issues from time to time. Do you keep your spot item equipped? If not, taking a 10-15 point hit in a d20 system almost guarantees failure. Tomes and items, and even an Owl's Wisdom buff from House P or wands can give you a +4(does not stack with wisdom items.) Drow get a bonus to Spot and Search and you get enhancements for being Drow and a Rogue. The first tier of +1 for 1 AP isn't a bad investment if you're having problems.

Finally, what quests are you running. If you're running quests well over your level range, expect some issues. If your running level 10 quests on Elite, expect some issues. If you're running quests a few levels over your level on Elite, expect problems.

But honestly, Spot is probablythe least important skill. As you level, you tend to remember where the traps are. More recent content has more semi-randomized traps, but even then, there are usually only a few places where traps have a chance to be located. If you reach one and you're not sure if it's clear or your spot is too low, that's what the Barbarian is for.

It's also the hardest skill to keep up because wisdom is seldom a prime stat for Rogues, it's a static target and you don't get a d20 roll, and as you said, you really can't use an Action Boost for it. For this and the above reason, Spot is the Rogue ability most often tanked. Veteran players often use either their memory or the zerging Barbarian to find traps. So you really shouldn't worry too much as long as you're finding the boxes and disabling the traps. Higher level groups are generally used to having Rogues that don't always spot everything and people will often stop at the traps or point out where the box is before you can do anything.

[donny77]

Yes... trap skills are very equipment intensive...

That's yet one of a million reasons why rogues aren't good for brand new players.

Not to offend, but that's really a cop out. I stated the equipment I have and it's level appropriate. I look for better ALL the time. Everything I have found better has a ML 13+. So you are telling me there were no rogues when the game came out? Or none of the rogues could disable traps because there was no gear available for them? Really? If the DC's are such that you can't roll a rogue without twinkage, then the DCs are broken and need to be lowered. PERIOD.

My base wisdom is 10, 12 currently with my +2 wis item. I could get owls, but that is only an additional +1. I have a +10 Spot item. If +1 is really the difference on the traps I missed, then again I would say the DCs are broken and should be lowered.

I don't have a big problem. It's just frustrating to fail and have the WHOLE party *****ing at you. I am doing EVERYTHING I can to be a good rogue and I feel like the deck is stacked against me. The groups I am in are the same level as me. If a level 10 melee can be successful in that quest I feel I should be successful too. I do memorize traps and spot is not a big problem. My last outing was in a new quest though and no one else in the group was pointing out trap locations. I am level 10, Quest was hiding in plain sight, level 11. All rogue stats are maxed. I have 16 Int and nearly all my skills are maxed. I just feel with max stats and level appropriate gear, I shouldn't be failing at all! This isn't subpar gear cranking out less DPS that barely anyone notices. This is top gear available to me and blowing a trap on elite means ending the dungeon crawl and 5 ****ed people *****ing to me about rogues and my skill level.

People are NOT understanding when a rogue is unable to be a trap monkey. I have had groups beg me to join them cause they "have" to have a rogue for the traps. I tell them I am not sure I can get the traps at that level. They beg plead convince to come along. Then blow a trap and they all are *****ing at you, complaining about rogues not spending their skill points right, and I am trying to figure out why I take it. It sucks. But I love rogues.

[neuroticOne]

I'm not seeing how people are having difficulty.. I've got a 3Rogue/6Ranger Dwarf (32pt).. aimed at haveing decent DPS and good De-Trapping skills. He's starting stats were 14STR 16DEX 16CON 14INT 14WIS 6CHA, and at his current level, his Spot is 29, Search is 31 and Disable is 33 (when geared for de-trapping).. and I've had no trouble whatsoever with traps.. I just can't understand it.

He's my first rogue in DDO, and though I geared him originally using another character's money, everything he's using now is bought with his loot, or was found with him.

[Demoyn]

Most rogues don't even take spot. It's not like the traps every change locations, so just ignore it and ask your party where the trap boxes are.

[Engoril]

My rogues like to spot the traps too. I find myself redoing their enhancements regularly as they level up to. Some levels I put enhancement points into improving spot and sometimes later I take them away again. What I do though is experiment to find if I'm close to what I need if I seem to be failing to spot. By experiment I mean take a skill boost enhancement, a heroism potion and/or a friendly bard into a quest with a trap you're having difficulty with. Walk up to and away again from the trap you are having difficulty spotting.

Try various combination of boosts and equipment to vary your spot skill level to determine what level you need for the spot to trigger.

If with all the boosts available to you you still cannot get the trap icon to appear, then you know you have a big problem needing either feats or serious AP investment in enhancements.

Otherwise you should manage to gauge what skill level you need within 1 or 2 points. Now re-arrange you enhancements or feats with that target in mind along with whatever buffs you assume you will regularly be running with. Remember to redo them every few levels. Its easier to do it just with max skill points plus gear and tools at higher level, though this may just be because of the better party buffs available.

[Demoyn]

If with all the boosts available to you you still cannot get the trap icon to appear, then you know you have a big problem needing either feats or serious AP investment in enhancements.

If you need to spend feat slots on finding traps then you have bigger problems than that.

[Vormaerin]

I see this advice all the time but it just doesn't work.

To be honest, I'm not sure why you are consistently having trouble with Spot. If you are lvl 10 with a +10 item and 12 Wisdom as a drow, you should have a total around +25? That is more than adequate unless you are doing lvl 12 elite quests or the like. If you are having problems, invest a few APs in +spot (either as a rogue or as a drow or both).

I'm not sure why Spot failures will be causing the group to be ****ed at you, though. Even if you do trigger the trap, you can still Search the box in 99% of the cases. Heck, in a lot of cases the boxes are beyond the traps anyway.

Are you confusing Spot and Search? Spot just gives you a "hey, be careful" text. Search is the skill to make the box appear. That one in Int based and its very important to have a +search item that is giving a bonus approximately equal to your level, especially if you do hard or elite quests. The other thing with Search is that you need to be near the box, so if you are searching near the right front corner of the room and the box is on the back wall, you may not get a result.

[Vormaerin]

Since I looted it I consider it level appropriate.

This is not actually true, by the way. Or, at least, what you are likely to loot and what the best you can actually use are two very different things. In general, chests drop loot that is (level -2) in minimum level, with a +1 each for hard and elite. So if you run a lvl 10 quest on normal, the typical loot will be Min Level 8 or thereabouts. That's a bit simplified, but a good rough guide.

For Rogue skills, you can get an item based bonus equal to your level in most cases. Odds are that you will need to buy them to actually stay at max all the time, as looting three equal ML items before you out level them again is rather unlikely.

If you are primarily doing quests on normal, you do not need to keep up with the best of the best gear. But you should have at least the next level down (ie +5 at lvl 7). If you are doing elite quests, you need to have the best skills gear you can use at your level.

Also, don't forget that luck items like Voice of the Master, Rabbit Gloves, Luckstone, etc are good for a bonus to all skills. So are long lasting buffs like heroism and good hope.

[Samadhi]

Not to offend, but that's really a cop out. I stated the equipment I have and it's level appropriate. I look for better ALL the time. Everything I have found better has a ML 13+. So you are telling me there were no rogues when the game came out? Or none of the rogues could disable traps because there was no gear available for them? Really? If the DC's are such that you can't roll a rogue without twinkage, then the DCs are broken and need to be lowered. PERIOD.

My base wisdom is 10, 12 currently with my +2 wis item. I could get owls, but that is only an additional +1. I have a +10 Spot item. If +1 is really the difference on the traps I missed, then again I would say the DCs are broken and should be lowered.

I don't have a big problem. It's just frustrating to fail and have the WHOLE party *****ing at you. I am doing EVERYTHING I can to be a good rogue and I feel like the deck is stacked against me. The groups I am in are the same level as me. If a level 10 melee can be successful in that quest I feel I should be successful too. I do memorize traps and spot is not a big problem. My last outing was in a new quest though and no one else in the group was pointing out trap locations. I am level 10, Quest was hiding in plain sight, level 11. All rogue stats are maxed. I have 16 Int and nearly all my skills are maxed. I just feel with max stats and level appropriate gear, I shouldn't be failing at all! This isn't subpar gear cranking out less DPS that barely anyone notices. This is top gear available to me and blowing a trap on elite means ending the dungeon crawl and 5 ****ed people *****ing to me about rogues and my skill level.

People are NOT understanding when a rogue is unable to be a trap monkey. I have had groups beg me to join them cause they "have" to have a rogue for the traps. I tell them I am not sure I can get the traps at that level. They beg plead convince to come along. Then blow a trap and they all are *****ing at you, complaining about rogues not spending their skill points right, and I am trying to figure out why I take it. It sucks. But I love rogues.

If people are ****ing at you for not getting traps - then that is their problem - because a well built rogue generally could care less about traps. Believe me or not - but I ASSURE you that every experienced player isn't going to care much at all whether you can do traps or not. Max the skill and get the best gear as it becomes available. That's it. In the meantime, if someone is insulting because you failed a trap, /squelch add <name> works quite well.

[Maegin]

16str, 14con, 14int 14 dex as minimum id say

This.

[donny77]

To be honest, I'm not sure why you are consistently having trouble with Spot. If you are lvl 10 with a +10 item and 12 Wisdom as a drow, you should have a total around +25? That is more than adequate unless you are doing lvl 12 elite quests or the like. If you are having problems, invest a few APs in +spot (either as a rogue or as a drow or both).

Yes my spot was 25, leveled and spent a few APs and it is now 29.

I'm not sure why Spot failures will be causing the group to be ****ed at you, though. Even if you do trigger the trap, you can still Search the box in 99% of the cases. Heck, in a lot of cases the boxes are beyond the traps anyway.

The quest that set me off was a level 11 on Elite with my 25 spot. The problem was, I was dying in the traps to find them.

[donny77]

I'm not seeing how people are having difficulty.. I've got a 3Rogue/6Ranger Dwarf (32pt).. aimed at haveing decent DPS and good De-Trapping skills. He's starting stats were 14STR 16DEX 16CON 14INT 14WIS 6CHA, and at his current level, his Spot is 29, Search is 31 and Disable is 33 (when geared for de-trapping).. and I've had no trouble whatsoever with traps.. I just can't understand it.

He's my first rogue in DDO, and though I geared him originally using another character's money, everything he's using now is bought with his loot, or was found with him.

My question is how? What is the equipment you are using? I have maxed rogue skills 3 levels higher than you and I am in the 24-29 range with my skills. If I just need better gear, fine, but honestly I looked through the AH today and everything better than what I had was ML 11. So you aren't wearing that. I also regularly check the brokers but most of their **** is clever of X which lowers the skill boost for the level. I WANT to be a perfect rogue, just looking for guidance.