Was I too harsh?

[Thailand_Dan]

It would seem the n00b that joined the group was wrong for doing so. He should have known what he was doing. OK, that being said, what did you expect to happen when you called the guy an idiot? You do that in a game, or even in real life, the typical reaction is Fight or Flight. Either they are going to come back at you, calling you names or they are going to drop.

At this point, you are somewhat forcing everyone else in the group to make a decision of, "Do I think the n00b was an idiot and I'm glad he's gone, or do I agree with our benevolent leader who just called the sorry sack an idiot". You got your response by the subsequent people dropping group and 1 guy staying.

Maybe your response was heavy handed, but we all have hellish PuGs and bad days...it happens. But, if you conduct a group this way in the future, expect a similar result. As you level up, you'll find tons of these situations that most vets shake off:

Depths Quest - "Don't break the explosive barrel" *BAM* - Fire ele summoned
Tempest Spine - "Don't pull that lever, it's trapped" *DING*
Rainbow in the Dark - "Don't step on the button in the floor" *DING* *DING* *DING* *WIPE*
Shroud - "Don't break the crystal" *CRASH*
Many different quests - "You have to pull the levers at the same time. Pull on 3, 2, 1, PULL" *GRIND* *GRIND* *GRIND* *RESET* "Pull on "PULL" not on 1!"

It's part of the game, especially in PuGs. If you don't want this to occur, and if it gets you enraged to the point where you feel the need to call group members names, you should probably stick to friends only and guild runs.

[Kriogen]

In a calm sea, anyone can be a Captain.

The real "filter" for a leader is when things go wrong.

[taurean430]

I think how you respond to the players you are in a group with is going to shape your number of options regarding whom you may play with in the future. Being harsh can illicit some really bad responses. And people get chatty as well, and have a tendency to follow the rumor mill as opposed to finding out about things themselves.

Parties, or members within a party wipe now and then. Things don't go as planned sometimes. Consider this example from a guy who I thought was an excellent leader:

In a group of 12 doing Tempest Spine; our party leader explains an alternative tactic that he and his guildmates had devised to make doing the fire and ice rooms easier on the party. Apparently, he and his mates were to rush the ice room and kill the Fenser alone. Then come back to the middle room where we all waited and rush the fire room in force. I thought it odd as we usually split into six man teams and did it simultaneously, but okay...

They ( three of them) rush into the ice area and dispatch the Fenser and come running back giving specific instructions to mob the fire room. All in all, only 5 of us ended up going in there and couldn't kill the thing quickly enough. We had to repeat that part three times in the quest to get the timing right. He laughed about it and made jokes, a good call I think.

Later in the quest, we had three people that managed to die multiple times running off on their own, pulling levers that are traps, charging the beholder, and getting ultimately thrown from the mountiantop at the end. Again, just jokes followed by why that was not so good of a strategy they chose. But the best part to me was that not only did he organize a stone collecting team so they could loot at completion - he also thanked us for helping him out. That when I felt it was really the other way around. I thought that was gold really.

Alternatively, I did a run of the pitt that turned bad as well. The leader, who is really a nice guy, went nuclear in the mic system following party wipe. This was one of those groups where people took off multiple directions, got in over their heads, screamed (literally) for heals and support, and died before anyone could find them. It was only because I had three other smooth runs with him that I decided to let it go. But the tells people sent me afterward were pretty clear. That experience made them really negative about parties and party play in general.

How you approach the Darwinian Nightmare who jumps into traps, aggros mobs, activates the boss early etc make a big difference. It's something to consider.

And yeah, as a new player I never answer lfm's like that unless I know the quest in and out. But some people fail to read or question the requirements you lay down as ground rules. In their eagerness to play they jump at the first opportunity to get into a group.

[Maxou69]

F2P is a pain and lot of irritation. Sell a +2 chainshirt in general chat... 2 hours left on my gold coins on AH...

Now my toons solo quest until L10 (gianthold) and if not I play with my guild. The harbor is a playground now

[tfangel]

This starts a chain reaction of the crybaby syndrome

Sounds like you are being the crybaby here actually. It's waterworks, serious business it's not. You came off like a jerk.

Blown box? It happens, even the best can blow it. If you were so leet, you should have had acid resist potion to make it irrelevant. Hell, if you were so leet, you should have been soloing elite WW.

Yeah, they should have probably avoided the group, but it's you not them that is coming off bad here.

[bogart99]

Okay so as a level 5 paladin, I put up a LFM for "Elite waterworks, need opener, know quest, fast run"

Were you too harsh no I don't think so you stated what you wanted clearly but the people that joined were obviously not ready for it.

This is a huge problem I have found with newbie's they take the jump from normal setting to elite far too lightly thinking that things will be the same as normal and fail to realize that elite means everything hits harder, traps and monsters that were annoyance are now lethal treating them like they are still just annoyance is what wipes parties.

Little things that annoy me are

Not reading the LFM "What quest we doing, share pls" after I have stated the lfm. we are on version 4 of the lfm system its fairly simple to follow even if your new.

Picking up quest sensitive Items and not knowing what to do with them or taking a ten minute afk. I will excuse the afk its just a game and life is more important than any game but taking a no trade quest item and having no idea what it is for or what to do with it is not in any way excusable. For example the ranger that took a key had no idea how to use it to open a locked door after 20 mins of coaching by the rest of the group we got the door open in a quest that normally takes 10 mins.

not being self-sufficient even in a small way.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I agree with the OP fully....I for one am getting quite tired of putting up an LFM that says experienced only or know the quest for stuff like GH then the first thing someone asks when they get in party chat is how to get to the quest, which promptly get's them booted.

I am beginning to think a lot of people just click on the first group that's not darkened, which in truth implies only one thing.....that ur in the level range and if they are looking for something like a cleric or caster that u may only have a one or two levels out of 10-12 of that class because ur an MC.

It's annoying indeed how many people do not FULLY read an LFM.

[Rasczak]

I must admit that having played both versions of DDO, the FtP model's upgrades really do cause more angst than not.

People joining a LFM and asking what quest, please share.....you don't even want to know how many people I have accepted that were FtP and asked if the quest was ftp and if it wasn't please can we do a FtP quest....I mean honestly the cheek of some is bad. But then you do get the ftp players that do read and have taken the time to explain they new and ask where the quest is.

Not that I condone abuse but I can understand that over a 4hour play session and lfm'ing the whole time...your nerves get frayed with some of the special types that join

[Garbudo]

You were once a newb so give them a chance if you didnt get a chance as a newb would you still be here? Your playing a Online MMO game How many idiots have you met in real life? Just as many on DDO

[vVAnjilaVv]

While we all started as newbs maybe, I can assure u a good portion of us did not come into the game oblivious.

And that trait tends to come from overall personal issue more than being new to a specific MMO.

[Garbudo]

I agree with the OP fully....I for one am getting quite tired of putting up an LFM that says experienced only or know the quest for stuff like GH then the first thing someone asks when they get in party chat is how to get to the quest, which promptly get's them booted.

I am beginning to think a lot of people just click on the first group that's not darkened, which in truth implies only one thing.....that ur in the level range and if they are looking for something like a cleric or caster that u may only have a one or two levels out of 10-12 of that class because ur an MC.

It's annoying indeed how many people do not FULLY read an LFM.

So when new content comes out I should not let you in my group cause you don't know your way or the quest? Yea that totally kills the game ya gotta give a newb a chance thats how they become a well rounded player if you have that big of a problem with getting a group for a quest maybe your in the wrong guild. "going to get a few phfffffts" I say HA your guild members that are not doing anything wont help you yea nice guild, always will help a guild member out even if I don't need to do the quest, but some of us are friendly others are anti social and most are just "out for themselves" Even though this is a game that you need to use TEAMWORK for. "leader of the free to play companions over 400 members all newbs ya know how long I have been playing since launch so I would have to say if I can take the hits you should be able too as well" Give them some learning they become a well rounded player. Another thing I have been playing since launch I didnt master the game does that mean im a newb cause i dont know my way to POP cause i hate GH? Would you not let me in your party cause I need a guide these are the things that make this game a waste of time when trying to get in a quest yea ok lets sit here for a hour waiting for a cleric who knows what they are doing instead of challenging ourselves with a cleric that has never run this.

[Thrudh]

Does it matter what we think? No, it does not.
Now, I could debate over people needing thicker skins when faced with criticism or the questionable skills of a Leader who could not get a party past the initial encounter of a quest without that party falling apart... but why bother on both counts? You ask for opinions and then want to argue with somebody when they state theirs. That tells me a lot about the situation - the first of which is that to discuss this with you would be a waste of my time - so I won't bother with one moment more.

EXACTLY... important part in red...

[Mithran]

New Rogues don't yet know what's required, don't have the twink gear or the +5 Tools, so I'd have recommended more patience. In fact, you'd have probably earned a place on my Squelch List for a while.

[Soulself]

i agree with the op and some of the other people in this thread.

one of the things about this game that annoys me is to login and end up in a group with idiots, sadly i have literaly quit playing the game reather then log in and run across moronic PuG's

[vVAnjilaVv]

So when new content comes out I should not let you in my group cause you don't know your way or the quest? Yea that totally kills the game ya gotta give a newb a chance thats how they become a well rounded player if you have that big of a problem with getting a group for a quest maybe your in the wrong guild. "going to get a few phfffffts" I say HA your guild members that are not doing anything wont help you yea nice guild, always will help a guild member out even if I don't need to do the quest, but some of us are friendly others are anti social and most are just "out for themselves" Even though this is a game that you need to use TEAMWORK for

Actually when new content comes out I will either go in and solo some of it to get a feel for it or come to the forums and educate myself on it so the people who went through the effort of writing threads about it do not have thier time wasted, or do both.

And u really didn't read my reply to closely did u, oblivious isn't neccesarily associated with not knowing something because u have never done it, it also has to do with someone who in general is not very consciencious.

The rogue who probably had no acid resist on anyways and who just saw someone go thru the trap before them and probably barely make it decided to stand in the middle of it and die. Sorry, that's oblivious in my book.

New players do not have any excuses for not coming here and brushing up some on this game, reading just a few minutes in the forums a day makes u a much better player, and alleviates some of that obliviuosness I mentioned.

[Garbudo]

Actually when new content comes out I will either go in and solo some of it to get a feel for it or come to the forums and educate myself on it so the people who went through the effort of writing threads about it do not have thier time wasted, or do both.

And u really didn't read my reply to closely did u, oblivious isn't neccesarily associated with not knowing something because u have never done it, it also has to do with someone who in general is not very consciencious.

The rogue who probably had no acid resist on anyways and who just saw someone go thru the trap before them and probably barely make it decided to stand in the middle of it and die. Sorry, that's oblivious in my book.

New players do not have any excuses for not coming here and brushing up some on this game, reading just a few minutes in the forums a day makes u a much better player, and alleviates some of that obliviuosness I mentioned.

i know where your coming from trust me yea i did read whole thing just only stated my opinion on it and wanted to take a bite "if i use beta i know it " alot of newbs dont use party chat they use general so they can try getting good deals so some never even read what you type to them

[bogart99]

So when new content comes out I should not let you in my group cause you don't know your way or the quest? Yea that totally kills the game ya gotta give a newb a chance thats how they become a well rounded player if you have that big of a problem with getting a group for a quest maybe your in the wrong guild. "going to get a few phfffffts" I say HA your guild members that are not doing anything wont help you yea nice guild, always will help a guild member out even if I don't need to do the quest, but some of us are friendly others are anti social and most are just "out for themselves" Even though this is a game that you need to use TEAMWORK for

This is not about giving new players a break. It's about putting up a lfm stating that you want people that know the quest i.e. know the where and how of the quest. If as a newbie you jump into a group that has advertised as Know the quest or Experienced players only and you have no idea where or how you should not have joined that group and your waiting peoples time.

That may seem like being exclusive to you but sometimes you just want to knock a quest out that you have done a thosand times before with the minimum amount of fuss.

Most players myself included are happy to hold a newbies hand but I refuse to do so when I have stated clearly that I didn't want that this run.

[Gunga]

This is a good thread and I'm glad that the OP posted it up.

Some people require that the party be able to perform so that they don't have to. Why else would a level 5 pali need a group for WW?

I see it as a major inferiority complex to then publicize a thread about this epic event looking for validation; woe is me, I asked for uber guys to help me finish an impossible task, and then, when someone wasn't as uber as I needed him to be, I humiliated him and then everyone left. You wouldn't leave me, forum world of uber greats, would you?

And, for all you analogy analyzers, this situation is not even in the same galaxy as starting an Epic DQ raid or Elite Shroud run. This guy would not be able to lead it or complete it. He didn't even have the chops to interview the people he was accepting into his Elite WW group. IMHO, to ridicule someone for not doing their job before finding out if they can follow orders or even speak the same language is, again, a symptom of inferiority.

But the really, really great thing about this thread: seeing who agrees with him. That's where the good stuff is.

[Mithran]

This is a good thread and I'm glad that the OP posted it up.

Some people require that the party be able to perform so that they don't have to. Why else would a level 5 pali need a group for WW?

I see it as a major inferiority complex to then publicize a thread about this epic event looking for validation; woe is me, I asked for uber guys to help me finish an impossible task, and then, when someone wasn't as uber as I needed him to be, I humiliated him and then everyone left. You wouldn't leave me, forum world of uber greats, would you?

And, for all you analogy analyzers, this situation is not even in the same galaxy as starting an Epic DQ raid or Elite Shroud run. This guy would not be able to lead it or complete it. He didn't even have the chops to interview the people he was accepting into his Elite WW group. IMHO, to ridicule someone for not doing their job before finding out if they can follow orders or even speak the same language is, again, a symptom of inferiority.

But the really, really great thing about this thread: seeing who agrees with him. That's where the good stuff is.

I think you're being a bit harsh too, Gunga. I made some allowances for the OP because he'd posted that he wanted experienced people, but with all the new people, if you outsource from your guild, you should honestly expect new people, anyway.

[Gunga]

I think you're being a bit harsh too, Gunga.

I don't have a whole lot of patience for posturing.