Was I too harsh?

[dontcare123]

Okay so as a level 5 paladin, I put up a LFM for "Elite waterworks, need opener, know quest, fast run"

We get a group of Me, A bard, a rogue, 2 rangers, and a FvS.

We walk in first room, and since I have no clue if im surrounded by noobs or not, I type "Trap" at the very first door with the acid stream. I then say "box is here" And rogue searches around everywhere BUT where im pointing. He finally gets it, then attempts to disarm. Box goes boom first try. Great. Then someone opens the door and triggers the trap. He drinks pots to get his life back and proceeds to start killing mobs. (Indicating he had a clue) The same rogue goes up to the acid stream, stands INSIDE IT, and tries to use the lever again after its already open, and dies. I say "Well thats one idiot down." and he ****es and moans a bit, then logs off. I boot him and move on. One of the rangers wants to cry on his behalf stating that I cant lead a group by being an *******. I respond with he shouldnt join a group if he cant read. Said ranger leaves. This starts a chain reaction of the crybaby syndrome, and all but me and the FvS left. We then laugh and say "its only WW." I put up a LFM with in progress, and within about 2 minutes we had a full crew of people who knew what they were doing. No more deaths, no more dumbasses.

My thoery is if you cant read the caption/quest of the group you are clicking on to join, then you deserve to be treated like the idiot you are. People who say "Share plz" when the giver is right in front of the sewer, or "what are we doing?" when its clearly in the caption are not worth the click on the "accept" tag when they spam you for group. Even after all that failed, they still cant read simple instructions. Am I in the minority here?

In the end, we finished WW elite (not that its a challenge) in a nice, fast manner. I really wish there was a way to see how long someones played, or what their highest level toon is, outside of the TR markers on their name. Would make weeding out the trash much easier.

[Waukeen]

I find your name to be contrary because obviously you do care.
If you can get em to leave with a single passing comment and then move on, who cares? It was fine.
If you starting screaming and swearing that would be over the line.
Personally I would just laugh into my mic and give em one more try.
Like spiderman says, everyone gets one.

[dontcare123]

The name was at account creation. I usually use another name for almost all my gaming accounts, but when i started back over here in D&D, I wanted to start fresh and work my way up again, so I needed a new account name. At that time, I didnt care what it was, so thus, dontcare123.

[Waukeen]

just being whimsical didnt mean to hit a nerve. I am amazed daily by the idiousy of new players.

Today STK elite:

get to bridge near fire room. I type /p trap, stay back. and proceed to activate the fire bridge. Three people run right at it and die in the middle.

I also was in a splinterskull PuG where 3 people were really smelling the flowers, getting **** bonus chests etc. thats cool, but they bailed for dinner with the last 4 parts remaining. sigh*

[dontcare123]

You didnt hit a nerve, man. Its been brought up before so I figured id lay it out there.

Well most of these noobs are ex/current WOW players, and they figure they can do anything. That and WOW doesnt have any real enviornment dangers (traps and such) to worry about.

Oh well hopefully the craptastic ones will go back and the few that dont want to button mash their way through quests will stay.

[Gunga]

Sometimes even vets don't want to hear mouth from somebody who thinks they're Mr. Big in WW. You could've just finished the quest without calling someone an idiot. If you were that uBerZ you would've been soloing WW like the rest of us.

We can't all be the best.

[Fenrisulven6]

I am amazed daily by the idiousy of new players.

I'm having fun running with F2P PUGs. They are much more random and entertaining.

And I still see quite a number of vets fall into "idiot mode" - testing their twitch against an elite trap, aggroing too much at once, etc.

To the OP, I appreciate your pain, but you messed up when you called the rogue an idiot. Sure, he deserved it, but this is a game and there's no need for that.

[Maxou69]

F2P is a pain and lot of irritation. Sell a +2 chainshirt in general chat... 2 hours left on my gold coins on AH...

Now my toons solo quest until L10 (gianthold) and if not I play with my guild. The harbor is a playground now

[tfangel]

This starts a chain reaction of the crybaby syndrome

Sounds like you are being the crybaby here actually. It's waterworks, serious business it's not. You came off like a jerk.

Blown box? It happens, even the best can blow it. If you were so leet, you should have had acid resist potion to make it irrelevant. Hell, if you were so leet, you should have been soloing elite WW.

Yeah, they should have probably avoided the group, but it's you not them that is coming off bad here.

[bogart99]

Okay so as a level 5 paladin, I put up a LFM for "Elite waterworks, need opener, know quest, fast run"

Were you too harsh no I don't think so you stated what you wanted clearly but the people that joined were obviously not ready for it.

This is a huge problem I have found with newbie's they take the jump from normal setting to elite far too lightly thinking that things will be the same as normal and fail to realize that elite means everything hits harder, traps and monsters that were annoyance are now lethal treating them like they are still just annoyance is what wipes parties.

Little things that annoy me are

Not reading the LFM "What quest we doing, share pls" after I have stated the lfm. we are on version 4 of the lfm system its fairly simple to follow even if your new.

Picking up quest sensitive Items and not knowing what to do with them or taking a ten minute afk. I will excuse the afk its just a game and life is more important than any game but taking a no trade quest item and having no idea what it is for or what to do with it is not in any way excusable. For example the ranger that took a key had no idea how to use it to open a locked door after 20 mins of coaching by the rest of the group we got the door open in a quest that normally takes 10 mins.

not being self-sufficient even in a small way.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I agree with the OP fully....I for one am getting quite tired of putting up an LFM that says experienced only or know the quest for stuff like GH then the first thing someone asks when they get in party chat is how to get to the quest, which promptly get's them booted.

I am beginning to think a lot of people just click on the first group that's not darkened, which in truth implies only one thing.....that ur in the level range and if they are looking for something like a cleric or caster that u may only have a one or two levels out of 10-12 of that class because ur an MC.

It's annoying indeed how many people do not FULLY read an LFM.

[Garbudo]

I agree with the OP fully....I for one am getting quite tired of putting up an LFM that says experienced only or know the quest for stuff like GH then the first thing someone asks when they get in party chat is how to get to the quest, which promptly get's them booted.

I am beginning to think a lot of people just click on the first group that's not darkened, which in truth implies only one thing.....that ur in the level range and if they are looking for something like a cleric or caster that u may only have a one or two levels out of 10-12 of that class because ur an MC.

It's annoying indeed how many people do not FULLY read an LFM.

So when new content comes out I should not let you in my group cause you don't know your way or the quest? Yea that totally kills the game ya gotta give a newb a chance thats how they become a well rounded player if you have that big of a problem with getting a group for a quest maybe your in the wrong guild. "going to get a few phfffffts" I say HA your guild members that are not doing anything wont help you yea nice guild, always will help a guild member out even if I don't need to do the quest, but some of us are friendly others are anti social and most are just "out for themselves" Even though this is a game that you need to use TEAMWORK for. "leader of the free to play companions over 400 members all newbs ya know how long I have been playing since launch so I would have to say if I can take the hits you should be able too as well" Give them some learning they become a well rounded player. Another thing I have been playing since launch I didnt master the game does that mean im a newb cause i dont know my way to POP cause i hate GH? Would you not let me in your party cause I need a guide these are the things that make this game a waste of time when trying to get in a quest yea ok lets sit here for a hour waiting for a cleric who knows what they are doing instead of challenging ourselves with a cleric that has never run this.

[vVAnjilaVv]

So when new content comes out I should not let you in my group cause you don't know your way or the quest? Yea that totally kills the game ya gotta give a newb a chance thats how they become a well rounded player if you have that big of a problem with getting a group for a quest maybe your in the wrong guild. "going to get a few phfffffts" I say HA your guild members that are not doing anything wont help you yea nice guild, always will help a guild member out even if I don't need to do the quest, but some of us are friendly others are anti social and most are just "out for themselves" Even though this is a game that you need to use TEAMWORK for

Actually when new content comes out I will either go in and solo some of it to get a feel for it or come to the forums and educate myself on it so the people who went through the effort of writing threads about it do not have thier time wasted, or do both.

And u really didn't read my reply to closely did u, oblivious isn't neccesarily associated with not knowing something because u have never done it, it also has to do with someone who in general is not very consciencious.

The rogue who probably had no acid resist on anyways and who just saw someone go thru the trap before them and probably barely make it decided to stand in the middle of it and die. Sorry, that's oblivious in my book.

New players do not have any excuses for not coming here and brushing up some on this game, reading just a few minutes in the forums a day makes u a much better player, and alleviates some of that obliviuosness I mentioned.

[Garbudo]

Actually when new content comes out I will either go in and solo some of it to get a feel for it or come to the forums and educate myself on it so the people who went through the effort of writing threads about it do not have thier time wasted, or do both.

And u really didn't read my reply to closely did u, oblivious isn't neccesarily associated with not knowing something because u have never done it, it also has to do with someone who in general is not very consciencious.

The rogue who probably had no acid resist on anyways and who just saw someone go thru the trap before them and probably barely make it decided to stand in the middle of it and die. Sorry, that's oblivious in my book.

New players do not have any excuses for not coming here and brushing up some on this game, reading just a few minutes in the forums a day makes u a much better player, and alleviates some of that obliviuosness I mentioned.

i know where your coming from trust me yea i did read whole thing just only stated my opinion on it and wanted to take a bite "if i use beta i know it " alot of newbs dont use party chat they use general so they can try getting good deals so some never even read what you type to them

[bogart99]

So when new content comes out I should not let you in my group cause you don't know your way or the quest? Yea that totally kills the game ya gotta give a newb a chance thats how they become a well rounded player if you have that big of a problem with getting a group for a quest maybe your in the wrong guild. "going to get a few phfffffts" I say HA your guild members that are not doing anything wont help you yea nice guild, always will help a guild member out even if I don't need to do the quest, but some of us are friendly others are anti social and most are just "out for themselves" Even though this is a game that you need to use TEAMWORK for

This is not about giving new players a break. It's about putting up a lfm stating that you want people that know the quest i.e. know the where and how of the quest. If as a newbie you jump into a group that has advertised as Know the quest or Experienced players only and you have no idea where or how you should not have joined that group and your waiting peoples time.

That may seem like being exclusive to you but sometimes you just want to knock a quest out that you have done a thosand times before with the minimum amount of fuss.

Most players myself included are happy to hold a newbies hand but I refuse to do so when I have stated clearly that I didn't want that this run.

[Gunga]

This is a good thread and I'm glad that the OP posted it up.

Some people require that the party be able to perform so that they don't have to. Why else would a level 5 pali need a group for WW?

I see it as a major inferiority complex to then publicize a thread about this epic event looking for validation; woe is me, I asked for uber guys to help me finish an impossible task, and then, when someone wasn't as uber as I needed him to be, I humiliated him and then everyone left. You wouldn't leave me, forum world of uber greats, would you?

And, for all you analogy analyzers, this situation is not even in the same galaxy as starting an Epic DQ raid or Elite Shroud run. This guy would not be able to lead it or complete it. He didn't even have the chops to interview the people he was accepting into his Elite WW group. IMHO, to ridicule someone for not doing their job before finding out if they can follow orders or even speak the same language is, again, a symptom of inferiority.

But the really, really great thing about this thread: seeing who agrees with him. That's where the good stuff is.

[Rasczak]

I must admit that having played both versions of DDO, the FtP model's upgrades really do cause more angst than not.

People joining a LFM and asking what quest, please share.....you don't even want to know how many people I have accepted that were FtP and asked if the quest was ftp and if it wasn't please can we do a FtP quest....I mean honestly the cheek of some is bad. But then you do get the ftp players that do read and have taken the time to explain they new and ask where the quest is.

Not that I condone abuse but I can understand that over a 4hour play session and lfm'ing the whole time...your nerves get frayed with some of the special types that join

[Mithran]

New Rogues don't yet know what's required, don't have the twink gear or the +5 Tools, so I'd have recommended more patience. In fact, you'd have probably earned a place on my Squelch List for a while.

[Vanshilar]

Okay so as a level 5 paladin, I put up a LFM for "Elite waterworks, need opener, know quest, fast run"

Depending on how people interpret that LFM, they might have thought that you meant you know the quest and that you can help them do a fast run.

Sometimes specifying the subject in a phrase helps

[Perspicacity]

In a calm sea, anyone can be a Captain.

The real "filter" for a leader is when things go wrong.

So was the captain of the titanic a bad captain? Or was it just a sh!tty boat? I understand what your getting at but I am sorry to say it's not as black and white as you want to put it, yes sometimes it's bad leadership but sometimes you just get a bad PUG. There are three positions to consider here, the leader is frustrated because he specifically asked for experienced players and got idiots instead.

I know how frustrating it can be when some one joins your group with out regard for the LFM. I had a guy once join my group who couldn't even speak English. You speak Portuguese good for you I'm not saying they can't play it's a free game and any one who wants to play should be able to but allot of quests require strategy team work and most importantly COMMUNICATION, how can we communicate when you cant even understand me. Some of you may ask how is this disregarding of your LFM? Well this takes me back to another group where I had a guy who's icon said he had voice chat but I tried talking to him for five minutes and after not getting a responce I typed "you got audio?" to which he responded no. This is not a question that any one should ever have to ask it should be information you should volunteer reflexively as soon as you join the group. So now I put in my LFMs "must have voice chat" now if you don't speak my language you may as well not even have voice chat cause how are we going to talk?

But I have also been on the other side. I have had party leaders that assume that because I made one mistake or asked a question that I must be a noob. Noob to quest does not mean noob to game. Some one who has been playing F2P for a year but has just never done Tangle root gorge or Shan-to-kor is not a noob but they dont know those quests so if one day they decide to buy them you may have a v ery experienced cleric who doesn't know the quest.

I have also been on the outside looking in as another member of my party did something I could not understand and the leader called him out on it. I herd one guy ask where the quest giver was for Cerulean hills slayers... really? It's not that there inexperienced its that there inatentive. I have never asked for the slayers quest giver because i knew it was automatic since level 2 of my very first toon. By the time you get to storm reach you have at least done slayers once (on korthos) anyone who doesn't know that it's automatic was simply not paying attention and someone that inattentive is someone I don't want in my group because that's the type of person who doesn't pay attention when you say "look out, trap".

Do I think you where harsh? A little. The guy saw the jet was on and stood in it. Noob move yes, deserving of ridicule no, but do I understand why you did it? O god yes. However, if the group was really that bad you could have just bailed and started a new group not like you would have lost much seeing as how you had just started. The question is not was it deserved the questions is was it necessary and the answer to that will always be no, it doesn't help in anyway and usually destroys parties as you clearly proved.