solo vs group rant

[Battleworm]

Quite true, your blade barrier's rock as do Silver's...made elite Amrath runs a cake walk

aww gael we miss you come re-level Nightmare with me! :> :> :>

[Katrina]

So the rant should have been Don't bb and kite if you are a newbsauce.

Maybe I'm wrong but this is the heart of the argument.

If you're gonna kite 10 mobs across 4 blade barriers and then die after 2 laps, you're just ****ing everyone off and wasting that 'flawless' xp bonus (for those that are leveling).

[Towrn]

Maybe I'm wrong but this is the heart of the argument.

If you're gonna kite 10 mobs across 4 blade barriers and then die after 2 laps, you're just ****ing everyone off and wasting that 'flawless' xp bonus (for those that are leveling).

We are just ensuring that your silly WF's can't reach lvl 20.

Save the Puppies!!!!!!!!!!

[Thelmallen]

Why chase the things the cleric is kiting? just move on or make a better build and intim them off if you think you can do it better.

You had to just know someone was eventually going to say 'reroll' in this thread.

I think a lot of peeps missed the point here, and it seems that the peeps who have missed the point are the clerics who are doing exactly what Garth was describing in his OP. Personally I don't like chasing kited mobs around any more than ayone else so I appreciate it when the cleric follows a straight forward and back path allowing melees to stand in the middle of the BB and turret around to whack the mobs as the go past. However, I agree with Moops in that even a moderately well-equipped group is going to mow down a mob faster than a BB can and not take that much damage thus making the BB kiting unnecessary.

[Kalari]

You had to just know someone was eventually going to say 'reroll' in this thread.

I think a lot of peeps missed the point here, and it seems that the peeps who have missed the point are the clerics who are doing exactly what Garth was describing in his OP. Personally I don't like chasing kited mobs around any more than ayone else so I appreciate it when the cleric follows a straight forward and back path allowing melees to stand in the middle of the BB and turret around to whack the mobs as the go past. However, I agree with Moops in that even a moderately well-equipped group is going to mow down a mob faster than a BB can and not take that much damage thus making the BB kiting unnecessary.

Hmm probably people who have never run with Garth or really do feel that they should be allowed to use their uber blade barriers.

Its as I say it seems really lately the art of team play is gone, many who do still coordinate and work together do so in guild only now. Its just hard to deal in groups with various players no matter the class who think "I am supreme watch me be bad arse!" and proceed to make something that could have been done quicker and more efficiently with the entire party take longer.

And then they fail to see this because "ooh I can get big numbers ahyuck.."

Its sad and im shocked at how many people came to this thread and defended the whole let the cleric blade barrier thing. I love the spell great for running about explorer areas when im having a bad day or if needed in a group that isnt that strong specially short man to help mitigate damage, but in a full apt party I know my sp is better used in other ways.

But as I said to Garth in my other post tis the new ddo its all about me mentality time

[Lifespawn]

You had to just know someone was eventually going to say 'reroll' in this thread.

I think a lot of peeps missed the point here, and it seems that the peeps who have missed the point are the clerics who are doing exactly what Garth was describing in his OP. Personally I don't like chasing kited mobs around any more than ayone else so I appreciate it when the cleric follows a straight forward and back path allowing melees to stand in the middle of the BB and turret around to whack the mobs as the go past. However, I agree with Moops in that even a moderately well-equipped group is going to mow down a mob faster than a BB can and not take that much damage thus making the BB kiting unnecessary.

I run with garth plenty and agree that in a well built group there is no need for BB kiting. What I was saying is that sometimes it is a good tactic and to specify that if you don't know what your doing then don't do it the op did not say anything like that all it said was don't kite when your in a group which i disagree with.

[Lifespawn]

Hmm probably people who have never run with Garth or really do feel that they should be allowed to use their uber blade barriers.

Its as I say it seems really lately the art of team play is gone, many who do still coordinate and work together do so in guild only now. Its just hard to deal in groups with various players no matter the class who think "I am supreme watch me be bad arse!" and proceed to make something that could have been done quicker and more efficiently with the entire party take longer.

And then they fail to see this because "ooh I can get big numbers ahyuck.."

Its sad and im shocked at how many people came to this thread and defended the whole let the cleric blade barrier thing. I love the spell great for running about explorer areas when im having a bad day or if needed in a group that isnt that strong specially short man to help mitigate damage, but in a full apt party I know my sp is better used in other ways.

But as I said to Garth in my other post tis the new ddo its all about me mentality time

How is taking 10-12 mobs through 1 bladebarrier by yourself and freeing the melee to do other mobs taking more time?

In the right situation it is a Great tactic should it be used the entire quest ...no but don't just lump us all in with the ****** noob kiters i kite when it's better for the group.

[Lifespawn]

Maybe I'm wrong but this is the heart of the argument.

If you're gonna kite 10 mobs across 4 blade barriers and then die after 2 laps, you're just ****ing everyone off and wasting that 'flawless' xp bonus (for those that are leveling).

nowhere in the op did it say anything about the kiter dying it just said don't kite in group play that is the only thing i disagree with.

[soupertc]

You had to just know someone was eventually going to say 'reroll' in this thread.

I think a lot of peeps missed the point here, and it seems that the peeps who have missed the point are the clerics who are doing exactly what Garth was describing in his OP. Personally I don't like chasing kited mobs around any more than ayone else so I appreciate it when the cleric follows a straight forward and back path allowing melees to stand in the middle of the BB and turret around to whack the mobs as the go past. However, I agree with Moops in that even a moderately well-equipped group is going to mow down a mob faster than a BB can and not take that much damage thus making the BB kiting unnecessary.

I Like to BB and I didn't miss the point. Oh and Thel your 40 man......sayin peeps at that age is WHACK!!!!

[Kalari]

How is taking 10-12 mobs through 1 bladebarrier by yourself and freeing the melee to do other mobs taking more time?

In the right situation it is a Great tactic should it be used the entire quest ...no but don't just lump us all in with the ****** noob kiters i kite when it's better for the group.

Yes in the right situation it could be, but did I specifically say hey Lifespawn you need to stop being a noob kiter? LOL dont start a debate with me on this if your not guilty of what I posted then theres no reason to even bring it up. Point blank there are some clerics and favored souls out there that see shinny happy big numbers and think "My blade barriers are more awesome then any weapon." They get into groups and spam them literally in the worst situations thinking "I R helping." Ugh we had a guy putting them down during VOD finally I let Sully eat him because obviously his blade barriers meant he could also protect himself from boss aggro right?

I in no way was attacking smart clerics who know when to use the spell to save time and resources and if your one of them clerics you didnt even have to pay attention to my posts. What I dont get is how asking people to be smart with the spells they use in groups turned into "My blade barriers are better then 4 fighters dps" (once again this is not something im saying you said Life just so that dont crop up again).

Its about tactics and some people are still figuring out how to use them and some just dont care and the ones who dont care tend to make something that could have been done quicker take longer.

[shenthing]

Ummm, yeah. If your cleric doesn't know how to lay BB, turtle up and throw implosion, you should trade it in for the newer model.

[Lifespawn]

Hmm probably people who have never run with Garth or really do feel that they should be allowed to use their uber blade barriers.

Its as I say it seems really lately the art of team play is gone, many who do still coordinate and work together do so in guild only now. Its just hard to deal in groups with various players no matter the class who think "I am supreme watch me be bad arse!" and proceed to make something that could have been done quicker and more efficiently with the entire party take longer.

And then they fail to see this because "ooh I can get big numbers ahyuck.."

Its sad and im shocked at how many people came to this thread and defended the whole let the cleric blade barrier thing. I love the spell great for running about explorer areas when im having a bad day or if needed in a group that isnt that strong specially short man to help mitigate damage, but in a full apt party I know my sp is better used in other ways.
But as I said to Garth in my other post tis the new ddo its all about me mentality time

the part in red is what was calling me out since i defended the tactic in the right situation so you didn't specify thats all i was flustered about.

[Delt]

yes - have fun when you're soloing but please note that tactics when you're in a group are very different from tactics when you're soloing so please adjust them.

All the other stupid nitpicking aside, this is solid advice, especially for end game content. I know a few really good soloers that contribute directly to group cluster****s all the time because they don't know how to adjust their tactics.

Mind you, it's not just the soloers fault...it's the stupid other non self-healing party members that followed the soloer into a tough situation and died. But the result is still the same - a bunch of soul stones require rescuing.

If you can bend the group to support your playstyle and make it work, great. But if you can't, change what you are doing to support the group...even if it is "less efficient".

[Kalari]

the part in red is what was calling me out since i defended the tactic in the right situation so you didn't specify thats all i was flustered about.

Alright alright I owe ya a beer then? Thats how I get out of most situations when insert foot in mouth syndrome happens

[rest]

I must have just experienced what you did, Garth. Doing a Finding The Path run the cleric set down 3 or 4 blade barriers and tried to kite everything through... then proceeded to exclaim "Someone get the aggro off me its messing up my spells!"

Add to that a wizard who doesn't haste and its a great reminder why I don't pug.

*shudder*

[MystDragon]

I agree with the OP that you need to play in teamwork settings differently than in solo's.

I think this is indicating a larger problem of baseline teamwork. It's the same as with the assassin example above or with a melee who runs ahead and gets killed biting off more than he can handle or even the whole "don't let the trapsmith do his thing" while complaining that they got blown up or shredded by a trap.

In truth - a group working as a team should be able to handle most situations more effectively than a solo run. I've been in good and bad groups (more good than bad) and when I am in a good group it is a thing of beauty. You are like a machine ripping the challenges of the dungeon apart.

My Battle Cleric (I know, <groan>) does use BB, although I actually use it very sparingly. I understand that every skill set has it's usage in the dungeon and try to blend myself to my party's fighting style. I've been able to use it pretty effectively as to add to the melee's attacks rather than to work at odds.

It's just like when working in a full group that has multiple heavy hitters in it - I'll put away my kick ass axe and pull out my paralyzer (unless immune) and I will tag as many creatures as possible to prevent them from hitting the melees while the melees rip them apart. My paralyzer is a little light mace that does **** damage, but as I use it to limit the damage to party members, it just doesnt matter. (The bonus is it doesn't pull aggro away from the heavy hitters either resulting in a kite and run tactic, which would be counter productive.) This is just one example.

The other problem I noticed with this is communication and arrogance. Many seem to think in a party that they can do it better. Everyone else would then be a glorified hireling. There are many situations to send one ahead for any number of reasons, but they should be tactical and not arrogance-based. The answer should be "we can do it - as a team." If you don't want to team up - then don't. I know I get in my solo moods.

The last is communication - when tactics are laid out, suggestions made, etc. and a strategy is adopted. Please don't just ignore the rest of the group and do your own thing, refusing to cooperate. That is just very bad teamwork.

My 2 cents.

[bobbryan2]

I don't think the cleric is the person that needs to adjust tactics.

Just my thoughts...