PnP MMO Mindset Differences

[Usagi101]

I understand that this is not the Tabletop game. It is only based on it and is quite heavily modified. I still find it fun. I am a bit confused about the mindset of some of the players.

A lot of the character builds I read suggest swapping feats. People saying how expensive it is to swap them. Something I'd NEVER do when playing with an actual DM. Why can't you just create the character you want and not "cheat" like that? So different that you need to experiment? Is it because Turbine updates so much that things just become less effective?

I am not complaining about how people play, I just need to know what to expect out of the DDO game. I've been reading the forums a lot but sometimes direct questions are best as I've been playing tabletop D&D for 20+ years now and some things just seem set in stone to me.

[Grimgore]

Not "cheating" per say if they give you the ability to do so. Welcome to the world of no consequences; If you don't like that feat, swap it out. Don't want to work on getting a 32 point build? Buy it. Want to feel like you have power over others? Deny them access to your PUG because you think their build is gimp. Most people like to come on and troll and flame because they know they can hide behind their avatar and there is little consequence to it. Would you do so if you were sitting at the table with your DM? How about at a convention?

A lot of the people I game with online are people I game with in real life and we agree that table top and MMO need to have a solid line between them (kind of like church and state ) so that we don't run into the above.

[Hjarki]

I understand that this is not the Tabletop game. It is only based on it and is quite heavily modified. I still find it fun. I am a bit confused about the mindset of some of the players.

A lot of the character builds I read suggest swapping feats. People saying how expensive it is to swap them. Something I'd NEVER do when playing with an actual DM. Why can't you just create the character you want and not "cheat" like that? So different that you need to experiment? Is it because Turbine updates so much that things just become less effective?

I am not complaining about how people play, I just need to know what to expect out of the DDO game. I've been reading the forums a lot but sometimes direct questions are best as I've been playing tabletop D&D for 20+ years now and some things just seem set in stone to me.

In PnP, you know exactly what that feat does.

In DDO, you don't. Moreover, the information you can dredge up from research varies from sketchy to incomplete, so much of the time you're forced to experiment and see how things actually work.

[JPDefault]

Another crucial point is that you will eventually get turned off from (some) groups/guilds if the others don't like your build. I can tell this even tough I'm still new here.
In DDO, I can still do some things that I used to do in PnP - ie: refusing to use a uber dagger because I insisted that I looked cooler with a staff, or selling my overpowered cloak to a random vendor because I got tired of its colour... There's no DM here to punish me for being such a uselessly stubborn player: other players would punish me by avoiding me (nothing really wrong with it: if I may ruin your game experience then I expect you to avoid me).
So, basically, feat swapping is no cheating: sometimes it's just surviving the society.
I'm not sure, but you probably can find a guild that forbids feat swapping, like are others that forbid the use of shrines, or hirelings, or are strictly RP, so you can just stay in character and refuse to wear a blue armour because you prefer yellow and so on...

On a final note, I can't remember of any PnP player who ran thru the dungeons just to get loot and xp as fast as possible. The aim of the game is definitely different.

[Anarkius]

Another thing about feat swap; just becuase it works for you at low levels, does not mean it will at higher levels. Or that just because it is the best option now, it may not be 4 or 5 updates to the game later.

For instance: My main character took the feats "skill focus: disable device" and "nimble fingers" early in creation (some odd years ago). However given the way that the 'enhancements' had been redone (a couple of times) and the introduction of the class specific enhancement lines, they were both deemed 'not neccessary' or 'gimp'. And due to the role that my character now fills in groups, I decided to swap BOTH out for 'Toughness' effectively moving me from 208 hp to 246 hp (done at level 17).

So while feat swaps may be 'cheating' to some; due to the progression of the game, realese of new abilities and nerfing of older abilities and gear, it is sometimes 'neccessary' to 'cheat' in this way. And no, in PnP, I would never 'swap' a feat.

Also, if you are smart about obtaining and holding onto 'free feat swap tokens' you don't have to spend a lot of money to exchange feats.

[taospark]

I understand that this is not the Tabletop game. It is only based on it and is quite heavily modified. I still find it fun. I am a bit confused about the mindset of some of the players.

A lot of the character builds I read suggest swapping feats. People saying how expensive it is to swap them. Something I'd NEVER do when playing with an actual DM. Why can't you just create the character you want and not "cheat" like that? So different that you need to experiment? Is it because Turbine updates so much that things just become less effective?

I am not complaining about how people play, I just need to know what to expect out of the DDO game. I've been reading the forums a lot but sometimes direct questions are best as I've been playing tabletop D&D for 20+ years now and some things just seem set in stone to me.

There is a reason that Gary Gygax abhorred the use of computers in his game but he did live to see D&D-based MMOs take fruit.

In general, I recommend having a microphone and using the /advice channel in the General chat window pane to get a feel for the community. Try to add players to your friends list that seem to be patient, know the game, and don't just run around getting killed.

As other posters have said, people swap feats not just to "game the system" but also due to patch changes, as DDO is as always, a great work in progress.

[honkuimushi]

While swapping tons of feats out isn't very PnP like, most DMs would work with you if one of your choices wasn't working out. There were some magic items and locations in splatbooks which could accomplish this. And the PHB 2 had a whole section devoted to respeccing characters.

[Anarkius]

.... And the PHB 2 had a whole section devoted to respeccing characters ...

"I ams what I ams, and thats all that I ams"....

[Lorien_the_First_One]

In PnP the rules were the rules.

Turbine frequently changes the rules. As a result feats that were not needed before suddenly are (or the reverse). For example, cleave - which sucks in this game, would have never been taken by a barbaian but suddenly it is REQUIRED by a barbarian to get their prestigue class, something that didn't even exist until a couple months ago and thus couldn't be planned for. On that same barb the Improved Crit piercing that they got to go with the wounding/puncturing rapiers may no longer be needed because after 3+ years they totally changed how stat damage works in this game. For this reason, changes need to be allowed.

Secondly in PnP no good DM would leave you stuck with something completely crappy for the long term, they would give you options, particularily on a first character. If they didn't, they would run out of players. Read the DMG, you are not to be punative.

Finally its not "cheating" to do what you DM says you can do...read that DMG again.

[ApesAmongUs]

I've never played in a PnP game where changing the character wouldn't be allowed. If anything, the cost in DDO makes changing more restrictive than a PnP game.

[Shamurai]

Forget feat swapping when in PnP did you run the exact same module on N/N/N/H/E? I look at them as two different games with the same {spirit of the game} in mind and leave it at that!