Level 12 Feat Dilemma: Quicken vs. Empower?

[Kralgnax]

I'm coming up on level 12 (Level 6 spells, yay!), so I have a feat to pick. I'm a melee-capable cleric but primarily a healer. My current feats are:

• Mental Toughness
• Improved mental Toughness
• Extend
• Maximize.

I'm having a lot of trouble picking between Quicken & Empower - any input on whiach I should pick, and why?

Thanks a bunch!

[Impaqt]

I'm coming up on level 12 (Level 6 spells, yay!), so I have a feat to pick. I'm a melee-capable cleric but primarily a healer. My current feats are:

• Mental Toughness
• Improved mental Toughness
• Extend
• Maximize.

I'm having a lot of trouble picking between Quicken & Empower - any input on whiach I should pick, and why?

Thanks a bunch!

Quicken.

If your Melee, your getting into quests where interuption is common and getting spells cast can be critical.

There is also not enough super high HP Mobs that Empower is required in conjunction with maximize. You dont really need Empower until you start doing Shavarath quests.

[Slowe]

If you like to solo, or are forced to solo, Quicken. Maximize + Greater Pot 6 will be more than enough.

If you heal a lot in groups, Empower won't help you much, and neither will Quicken, so I'd actually recommend Empower Healing, with the enhancements, though some will probably disagree.

I have Maximize + Quicken + Extend + Emp Heal, and I'm one happy versatile cleric.

[Kaervas]

You've picked up Heal now (along with Blade Barrier) with the rest of the level 6 spells, so it can really go two ways depending on what you want to do more.

Empower will make your Blade Barriers really strong, and improve your Mass Cure spells too (though it won't affect Heal or Mass Heal - you need Empower Healing specifically for that).
Quicken makes Blade Barrier not as painful to cast, as well as letting you throw Heals in the middle of the fray while you're taking heavy hits. I think this is the wiser choice for now since it makes Heal 99% reliable, and you won't need the extra damage from Empower for a while.

Eventually, if you want to use Blade Barrier effectively, you will want both of them. I don't have much experience with melee-capable clerics but I think a properly-kited Blade Barrier's damage is too much to pass up even if you are able to swing a weapon well.
Empower Healing at 18th rounds things off (alternatively if you find yourself healing more, go Quicken 12, Emp Healing 15, Empower 18).

[Winded]

Why even bother with extend. It really isnt needed on a cleric. If melee or a spell caster take Empower, maximize and quicken.
Blade Barrier at end game is the best spell, make it count.

[natakeu]

There are problems I have heard about with the use of quicken if one doesn't take concentration. As a reminder it is speculation, but what I understand is that the concentration check is still made reguardless if quicken is turned on or not. I mention this only because of the old ethos was to dump that skill and take quicken. I just didnt want to see you fall into that.

[Slowe]

Blade Barrier can be extended, and you will want that effect in many quests where you use it. For that alone, extend is useful, not to mention the short duration buffs, and even longer buffs in slower groups.

I strongly advise keeping Extend.

[natakeu]

Why even bother with extend. It really isnt needed on a cleric. If melee or a spell caster take Empower, maximize and quicken.
Blade Barrier at end game is the best spell, make it count.

Extend is useful on a cleric to assist those who are AC builds. An extended Recitation is generally welcomed by such persons. Additionally extended prayers help the party overall for dps and dont require people to gather up so often in between fights such as VoD.

[Kralgnax]

Thanks for the helpful responses!

Eventually, if you want to use Blade Barrier effectively, you will want both of them

Yes, I had in mind quicken or empower at 12 and the other at 15.

Sounds like Quicken is going to be the overall better choice.

Heal for single targets, Mass Cure Moderate (Maximized when needed) for group heals. With buffs and Blade barrier thrown in, I expect SP management will be an issue, but that's what I get the big bucks for.

[Tinfoot]

My own choice was between Enlarge and Quicken at lvl 12... At the time, I too, as the OP, had a lil' difficulty in choosing between the two. I ended up with Enlarge with the "Oh, why not" attitude... reasoning being that as a "back line, away from the fight" Healer and a constant skill upping of concentration, I honestly do not get hit that often and only a handful of times have things gotten so messy that I couldn't get a heal off (like Devil's Assault on Elite) without interruption. I prolly still will get Quicken, but that was my thinking at the time.

Now that I have worked with Enlarge for a couple levels, I am honestly glad I do have it. Yes, its not often used, but for those loooooong distance heals and Destructions (i.e. top of the maze in The Crucible or targeting Beholders outside of aggro range), its a beautiful thing. I stay out of harm's way.... way of its way.

And to re-iterate, hitting Beholder's with Enlarge-Destruction has saved a LOT of rezzing.

And this is an edit as I goofed and got Extend and Enlarge mixed up... DOH.

[Kaervas]

There are problems I have heard about with the use of quicken if one doesn't take concentration. As a reminder it is speculation, but what I understand is that the concentration check is still made reguardless if quicken is turned on or not. I mention this only because of the old ethos was to dump that skill and take quicken. I just didnt want to see you fall into that.

A quickened spell cannot be interrupted by damage, you have to be tripped/stunned/incapacitated/crowd controlled in some other manner.
It says it right on the tooltip for quicken spell, though it could do with being a little clearer, specifying that it cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks except those that cause you to lose complete control of your character (or something like that, just to make it crystal clear).
"While this metamagic feat is active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but they consume 10 additional spell points."

You are right that one should not forfeit concentration even with quicken though, that extra 10 SP per spell adds up, so you won't always want to have it on, and additionally concentration is handy for when you are scrolling.


@ Tinfoot
You are talking about Enlar- nevermind, I see you caught yourself while I was posting this.

[gwlech]

I'm coming up on level 12 (Level 6 spells, yay!), so I have a feat to pick. I'm a melee-capable cleric but primarily a healer. My current feats are:

• Mental Toughness
• Improved mental Toughness
• Extend
• Maximize.

I'm having a lot of trouble picking between Quicken & Empower - any input on whiach I should pick, and why?

Thanks a bunch!

Drop Imp Mental Toughness...Pick up empower...get quicken for lvl 12. Problem solved Get a Potency 6 item or at the very least a clicky...you don't need the SP that either one of the mental toughness feats give...largely a waste for a cleric imo. Get a pearl of power X if you don't have, or a magi weapon.

Replace the other mental toughness with Toughness (the feat for HP's) With these changes, being a cleric will become so much easier.

[Winded]

I clearly stated for Melee and Spell Casters. Ive downed everything in the game without extend with my blades.
Id rather have higher damage per hit output than lower damage and longer blades. Personal preferences, of course. Ive not missed extend in the slightest.

And to the above poster I think you are referring to enlarge for distances and not extend.

[Kaervas]

Id rather have higher damage per hit output than lower damage and longer blades.

You could just take extend, maximize, -and- empower, and have the highest damage per hit AND the spell lasting for longer.

It's very beneficial before people learn how to perfectly kite around the edge of the blade barrier so that mobs are getting hammered with hits practically every half second.
For 10 extra SP your barrier lasts twice as long.
If the player didn't kite effectively and the mob was still alive when a non-extended barrier dropped, it would cost 35+25+15 = 75 SP non-quickened, and 85 quickened, to put another one up. This is significant.

Even after they learn how to do this, it allows to kill 2 pulls of mobs with 1 barrier, again saving SP.


And as people already stated, extend is very nice for the short term combat buffs. Granted it is not necessary for any of the 1min/level buffs, but recitation, divine power (and favor to a lesser extent - only saves a recast), holy aura, etc will benefit from extend.