Two weapon fighting?

[Jiipster]

(ok toughness isn't good to take a low levels )

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? Toughness is one of the best feats possible at low levels, where the enhancements for it can give a massive HP boost. At level 5, 20 HP is a lot higher percentage of your total HP than it is at level 20.

[t0r012]

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? Toughness is one of the best feats possible at low levels, where the enhancements for it can give a massive HP boost. At level 5, 20 HP is a lot higher percentage of your total HP than it is at level 20.

I second that. plus it also opens up the racial toughness for even more HP for a few AP.

just don't take more than 1 toughness feat, multiple isn't really worth it.

(side note , anyone know if multi toughness feats are still bugging out feat respecs with fred?)

[Visty]

(side note , anyone know if multi toughness feats are still bugging out feat respecs with fred?)

yes

[Mobeius]

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? Toughness is one of the best feats possible at low levels, where the enhancements for it can give a massive HP boost. At level 5, 20 HP is a lot higher percentage of your total HP than it is at level 20.

I definately agree... a better way for people to look at it..


If you have 30 Hitpoints at level 1 and you gain 10 HP from Toughness, thats a 25% Increase.

When you have a 100 HP around the level 6 area its only 10%

When you have like 500-ish at level 20 its only 2%


Now, even still, toughness feats stack up and add up, you will have to decided what the breaking point is for you. Some only ever take one, some take tons of them, eventually its up to you to decide whats enough. However, I would always recomend taking the feat ATELAST once and taking it at level 1 where it will have the most impact and effect.

Hitpoints matters in this game, especially epic, especially for monks. With healing amp and all that jazz the more hit points you have the more suvivable you become and because of easy healing you can stay up a lot more. Seriously, what other feats out there do you REALLY need for you monk besides the TWF tree of feats, Imp Crit Bludg, Power Attack, Dodge, Stunning Fist. More saves? Better Skill bonuses? Deflect Arrows? etc...

My human monk had 3 toughness feats before I TR'ed him, and he use to have 4, but used one to gain imp crit bludgeoning later on. They stack and add up and DO help but again it depends on your veiw of things and a balance on YOUR toon.

[Torkadius]

I forget where, but I did read that DDO handwraps are considered dual weapons and so TWF feats were recommended. If this isn't true I'm not worried since the consensus here seems to be it's good for other reasons
Also, is there a legend of abbreviations to help new guys like me understand the references? Ddowiki has one but it's been flaking out for days now.

kthnxbye!

Can anybody point me to this? I'd really like to know. My first Monk is ready to level at 9, and I'm debating what Feat to take (Took the Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack so far).

I'd really like to know if Two-Weapon Defense works with handwraps as well.

[Visty]

I'd really like to know if Two-Weapon Defense works with handwraps as well.

doesnt. neither does twblocking

those only works with weapons

[Torkadius]

doesnt. neither does twblocking

those only works with weapons

Lame. ;p

Well, on a positive note, I found the "official" word on the Two-Weapon Fighting Feats adding to Monk unarmed attacks (assume - hope - handwraps count as unarmed)...

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...bility_Changes

5th bullet-point down.

[TreknaQudane]

doesnt. neither does twblocking

those only works with weapons

Nor does the Tempest enhancement.

[Letrii]

Can anybody point me to this? I'd really like to know. My first Monk is ready to level at 9, and I'm debating what Feat to take (Took the Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack so far).

I'd really like to know if Two-Weapon Defense works with handwraps as well.

Get rid of mobility and spring attack and add TWF & ITWF.

[Torkadius]

Get rid of mobility and spring attack and add TWF & ITWF.

I have TWF already (sorry, thought I had implied that earlier, but upon re-reading my post, I did not), and I am adding ITWF this level (9).

Even so, I doubt I would trade Spring Attack for them at this level, as it is awesome for my playstyle. IMHO Spring Attack is one of the best Feats in this game for someone who is mobile. When my monk stands toe-to-toe with high CR mobs I die quickly. When I circle around them I have lasting power. Being able to hit high AC mobs while moving is a big part of my play-style as a Monk. (All my light armor and lower AC types who melee go this route. I get tired of missing when I am running/jumping/tumbling around mobs, especially those rediculous jumpy archer/caster types who constantly jump away from me when I'm beating on them).

Thank you for your input though.

I've been playing PNP D&D since 1977, and DDO since Headstart. DDO, while similar to PNP D&D, has enough differences from D&D to require me to ask that which I don't know (especially since I was on a DDO hiatus playing LOTRO when Monks were added). For the record, my monk is probably my 34-35th character in this game since first day of Headstart back in February of '06. I just was not clear on how handwraps and the Two-Weapon Defense works. Would have taken 2-wpn Defense first, then ITWF at 12 if 2-wpn Defense worked. Seeing how it does not, I'm taking ITWF now, and GTWF when it becomes available.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Angelus_dead]

When I circle around them I have lasting power. Being able to hit high AC mobs while moving is a big part of my play-style as a Monk.

Everyone can hit high-AC enemies while moving. In the event that you find an enemy whose AC is so high that you can't hit it while moving, having Spring Attack won't change that.

[Pyron]

I definately agree... a better way for people to look at it..


If you have 30 Hitpoints at level 1 and you gain 10 HP from Toughness, thats a 25% Increase.

When you have a 100 HP around the level 6 area its only 10%

When you have like 500-ish at level 20 its only 2%


Now, even still, toughness feats stack up and add up, you will have to decided what the breaking point is for you. Some only ever take one, some take tons of them, eventually its up to you to decide whats enough. However, I would always recomend taking the feat ATELAST once and taking it at level 1 where it will have the most impact and effect.

Hitpoints matters in this game, especially epic, especially for monks. With healing amp and all that jazz the more hit points you have the more suvivable you become and because of easy healing you can stay up a lot more. Seriously, what other feats out there do you REALLY need for you monk besides the TWF tree of feats, Imp Crit Bludg, Power Attack, Dodge, Stunning Fist. More saves? Better Skill bonuses? Deflect Arrows? etc...

My human monk had 3 toughness feats before I TR'ed him, and he use to have 4, but used one to gain imp crit bludgeoning later on. They stack and add up and DO help but again it depends on your veiw of things and a balance on YOUR toon.

Isn't Toughness only 3 points at first level and 1 point after that? How does that rate as a worthwhile feat? Especially considering that AP seem to be at a premium for monks.

[AMDarkwolf]

I have TWF already (sorry, thought I had implied that earlier, but upon re-reading my post, I did not), and I am adding ITWF this level (9).

Even so, I doubt I would trade Spring Attack for them at this level, as it is awesome for my playstyle. IMHO Spring Attack is one of the best Feats in this game for someone who is mobile. When my monk stands toe-to-toe with high CR mobs I die quickly. When I circle around them I have lasting power. Being able to hit high AC mobs while moving is a big part of my play-style as a Monk. (All my light armor and lower AC types who melee go this route. I get tired of missing when I am running/jumping/tumbling around mobs, especially those rediculous jumpy archer/caster types who constantly jump away from me when I'm beating on them).

Thank you for your input though.

I've been playing PNP D&D since 1977, and DDO since Headstart. DDO, while similar to PNP D&D, has enough differences from D&D to require me to ask that which I don't know (especially since I was on a DDO hiatus playing LOTRO when Monks were added). For the record, my monk is probably my 34-35th character in this game since first day of Headstart back in February of '06. I just was not clear on how handwraps and the Two-Weapon Defense works. Would have taken 2-wpn Defense first, then ITWF at 12 if 2-wpn Defense worked. Seeing how it does not, I'm taking ITWF now, and GTWF when it becomes available.

Thanks for all the replies.

Reason they say ditch spring attack(and mobility) is simple. Your a monk, your REAL strength is the damage u can deal. While moving around (taking advantage of spring attack) you have a silly 1-2 swing combo which when u stand still and attack, in the same time frame, u will prob dish out 6-10 attacks(considering ITWF+GTWF)

Also, mobility... +4 ac when u tumble, but u don't attack when u tumble, and even on my tempest toons, tumble is next to usless(ONLY +4 ac while tumbling, and chances are the mobs swing at me 'just' as I start or end the tumble)

If your not a tempest ranger, mobility and spring attack are both not worth your time. (and info, whirlwind attack is also a wasted feat, in the time u take to do your 360 deg attack, and the cooldown after, you could easily dish out 20+ attacks with your fists - again considering ITWF/GTWF)

[Torkadius]

My actual in game experiences are different. Apparently we are not playing the same way when moving. I'm getting all my attacks while moving around them the way I move. (Just a quick circle side-step at a time). It allows for me to hit during whatever part of the chain I am on, including the spinning kick, even as I am circling them. It also allows me to avoid trips and mighty swings from certain mobs such as Hobgoblins, Ogres, and Giant Foot Stomps. And I regularly get flanking bonuses to my attacks (bigger pluses to my dice rolls).

As far as one comment earlier, "If you can't hit them without it while moving, you can't with it either" - I have found mobs I could not hit b4 Spring Attack that I hit regularly after spring attack on 3 different characters now, so this argument is false in my experience.

Finally, let me say it again...

I TOOK ITWF!

Telling me to swap something for something I already have is ignorant (true definition of the word, not slang). Next Feat will be GTWF! I am less than one level away from another Feat, so I really don't see where swapping a feat out for it will do anything for me. (The next feat after GTWF will be Imp Crit Bludgeon, for those dying to tell me how borken my build is).

I am not a powergamer, I am an RPer who has been told by many other players over the years I am very good at leading successful quests and raids, including RP groups whom most powergamers would say have gimp builds.

For the record, the feats I have taken are not wasted. For you stat-crunchers out there, I regularly lead the Kill Count and deal more damage than others (as my monk) in nearly every quest I've done so far, including several where I am 2 levels lower than my guildies (some of whom are very good powergamers with consensus perfect stat-builds). They are all amazed at the damage I do, including some other monks. There are a few higher level Sorcs in my guild who can keep up with my monk kill-for-kill, but that is about it.

I was not asking you what I should take, just whether a specific Feat worked a specific way. Once I knew it's effect (or lack thereof as it turned out), I knew what I wanted to do.

Once again, thanks for the input, (especially those who actually answered the question I actually asked, not the hypothetical follow-up question which never existed). For those who thought I was asking what I should take (or even extrapolating what I should trade), thanks anyway, but I'm more than experienced enough to be doing just fine.

*Edited to add - AMDarkwolf is very correct on mobility being next to worthless, other than being a pre-req for Spring Attack and iirc Shot on the Run. While tumbling might make you harder to hit, the mobs are more than willing to wait around for you to stop, and eventually you have to if you wish to help your mates out. I guess you could grab aggro and then roll through firewalls and blade-barriers hoping they follow, but I never found running away to be much fun. The only time I use it is when I know the Healer is being overwhelmed and I have to buy time until it is my turn to be healed. Usually, if that is the case, the party-wipe is only moments away anyway, lol.