Best race for Monk ... I know this post again

[Cedwin]

I'm not sure where the 'humans can't get AC' came from...?

Probably from the /advice channel.

I saw people on Sarlona last night telling someone that racial and class toughness enhancements do not stack, then others saying they do stack. They actually argued about it for a good 5 minutes or so.

[Mobeius]

Probably from the /advice channel.

I saw people on Sarlona last night telling someone that racial and class toughness enhancements do not stack, then others saying they do stack. They actually argued about it for a good 5 minutes or so.

I have actually seen people give purposeful bad advice in the advice channel or attack me when I am in the advice channel and saying I am wrong and then saying some erroroneous data to conter me or someone.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

maybe we need rep in the advice channel

Garth

[wiglin]

The advice channel is pretty bad on ghallanda as well. Its hard to stay quiet when so much wrong information is being said.

As for race, do whatever, I do not believe in a best race for monk.

Elfs = Shadow dragonmarks, +2 Dex enhancements,
Warforged = Immunities, Warforged, Docent of Defiance
Halfling = +1 AC, +1 Attack, +1 Saves, Halfling Guile, +2 Dex enhancements, + save enhancements, healing dragonmarks
Human = Healing Amp, +1 stat (x2), bonus feat, +1 Skill Point / level
Dwarves = More Hitpoints, Bonus to saves vs spells, bonus to ac vs giants
Drow = hmm not a fan

[LAWPRE]

I see that this is a BAD week to actual study. I am the ONLY one with finals to worry about???

Getting back to the topic at hand. Okay... we have several topics now but I will only address two

As a general rule, I blithely and instantly ignore anyone whom insults someone else. Also, I make a note of their toons and WILL NOT PLAY WITH THEM. Sometimes, I tell them why, sometimes not. Socializing is a skill everyone should master but some are just not that good at it.

Likewise, without a really good reason, neg stats are a bad idea. Given all the damage enhancements and gear available, I do not consider maxxing dps or AC good reasons. Therefore, Lyeman, I do not like your build (as Int is -1 to skill points). Additionally, I like to be able to put skill points with as little limits as possible. So, I have an Int score of at least 12. I like having a Ftr with points in heal (or repair) if Warforged.

So, for a Dex based Monk, my human stats (32 pts) would look something like:

Str 14 (as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)
Dex 14 (as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)
Con 14(as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)
Cha 10
Int 14
Wis 14 (as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)


Although, I may take points from Str and Int in order to bump up either Dex or Wis (probably Wis as I do not like Mountain Stance) to 16

Other races would be similar except that the extra 2 points would be used to bring the "bad stat" up to at least 10

[wiglin]

I see that this is a BAD week to actual study. I am the ONLY one with finals to worry about???

Getting back to the topic at hand. Okay... we have several topics now but I will only address two

As a general rule, I blithely and instantly ignore anyone whom insults someone else. Also, I make a note of their toons and WILL NOT PLAY WITH THEM. Sometimes, I tell them why, sometimes not. Socializing is a skill everyone should master but some are just not that good at it.

Likewise, without a really good reason, neg stats are a bad idea. Given all the damage enhancements and gear available, I do not consider maxxing dps or AC good reasons. Therefore, Lyeman, I do not like your build (as Int is -1 to skill points). Additionally, I like to be able to put skill points with as little limits as possible. So, I have an Int score of at least 12. I like having a Ftr with points in heal (or repair) if Warforged.

So, for a Dex based Monk, my human stats (32 pts) would look something like:

Str 14 (as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)
Dex 14 (as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)
Con 14(as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)
Cha 10
Int 14
Wis 14 (as I "lose" 2 points in elemental stance and do not want to go negative)


Although, I may take points from Str and Int in order to bump up either Dex or Wis (probably Wis as I do not like Mountain Stance) to 16

Other races would be similar except that the extra 2 points would be used to bring the "bad stat" up to at least 10

The following is my opinion:

Cha: currently only gives a higher dc for monks dancing finisher. It is not needed for umd, as you can get high enough with it left at 8. Until we see monk pre's cha is pretty much a dump stat and better off left at 8.

Int: If you are not into stealth like me, then really this can stay at 8, especially on a human who gets a bonus skill point. I do not like combat expertise on a monk since A) it turns off when I use a finisher, and B) too much of dps loss from not using power attack.

Str: A monks bread and butter come from dex and wis, I would never start with less than 16 in either of them. Lower str to 12, those two build points give you +1 to your damage, not worth it.

Wis: AC, Monk DC's

Dex: AC, To-Hit (finesse), Refex saves to make evasion worth it.

Con: Hitpoints, and even more importantly qualifying for a higher tier mountain stance so you can spam the best ki strike of them all. Strike of the Enduring

Personally if I was going to build a human monk my stats would be:
12 Str (use a +1 tome by level 5 for power attack at level 6)
16 Dex
15 Con (with a +3 tome you will qualify for mountain stance IV which gives you a +16 damage ki stike...very nice)
8 Int (you can keep 4 skills maxed. balance, concentration, jump, and umd)
16 Wis
8 Cha (even with an 8 cha you can eat a +2 tome, +6 cha item, +3 persuasion, 4 gh, 1 good luck. withouth any serious grinding and be at a 21 umd, enough for 50% + chance to succeed on stoneskin, blur, and shield wands. Throw in human versatility, and even higher.)

[QuantumFX]

The advice channel is pretty bad on ghallanda as well. Its hard to stay quiet when so much wrong information is being said.

As for race, do whatever, I do not believe in a best race for monk.

Elfs = Shadow dragonmarks, +2 Dex enhancements,
Warforged = Immunities, Warforged, Docent of Defiance
Halfling = +1 AC, +1 Attack, +1 Saves, Halfling Guile, +2 Dex enhancements, + save enhancements, healing dragonmarks
Human = Healing Amp, +1 stat (x2), bonus feat, +1 Skill Point / level
Dwarves = More Hitpoints, Bonus to saves vs spells, bonus to ac vs giants
Drow = hmm not a fan

Don’t forget the tactics enhancements applying to Stunning Fist for Dwarves and Warforged.

[wiglin]

Don’t forget the tactics enhancements applying to Stunning Fist for Dwarves and Warforged.

I forgot about those completely.

[Mobeius]

Dont forget Wiglin that there are very few items that can actually boost UMD, my human monk had a 12 cha, 14 with tome, andn with items, buffs, and human versatility I could hit I beleive a 38, 40 if I really tried? I loved wand whipping sheild wands, exp retreat wands (on occasion I took of my striders), raise dead scrolls (saved me a bundle in AP's right there), etc... Honestly when I get done with my TR monk whos a WF this time, I am seriously know I am going to miss that. However, I am testing to see how I like WF, and I must say so far I like them a lot. More than human? Dont know yet, too early to tell.

[lyeman]

The following is my opinion:

Cha: currently only gives a higher dc for monks dancing finisher. It is not needed for umd, as you can get high enough with it left at 8. Until we see monk pre's cha is pretty much a dump stat and better off left at 8.

Int: If you are not into stealth like me, then really this can stay at 8, especially on a human who gets a bonus skill point. I do not like combat expertise on a monk since A) it turns off when I use a finisher, and B) too much of dps loss from not using power attack.

Str: A monks bread and butter come from dex and wis, I would never start with less than 16 in either of them. Lower str to 12, those two build points give you +1 to your damage, not worth it.

Wis: AC, Monk DC's

Dex: AC, To-Hit (finesse), Refex saves to make evasion worth it.

Con: Hitpoints, and even more importantly qualifying for a higher tier mountain stance so you can spam the best ki strike of them all. Strike of the Enduring

Personally if I was going to build a human monk my stats would be:
12 Str (use a +1 tome by level 5 for power attack at level 6)
16 Dex
15 Con (with a +3 tome you will qualify for mountain stance IV which gives you a +16 damage ki stike...very nice)
8 Int (you can keep 4 skills maxed. balance, concentration, jump, and umd)
16 Wis
8 Cha (even with an 8 cha you can eat a +2 tome, +6 cha item, +3 persuasion, 4 gh, 1 good luck. withouth any serious grinding and be at a 21 umd, enough for 50% + chance to succeed on stoneskin, blur, and shield wands. Throw in human versatility, and even higher.)

Those are legitimate points, but I view elves as allowing a true strength build while still having good AC, good monk abilities, and the only drawback is the 12 starting CON. This is easily upgradable to 14 for 2nd tier Earth stance, and the HP and fort save are no big deal. Yes, for the rare instance where strike of the enduring is the only ki strike that will hurt something, my dps is slightly lower, but against everything else...

And yes, I am regretting taking CE.

[wiglin]

Dont forget Wiglin that there are very few items that can actually boost UMD, my human monk had a 12 cha, 14 with tome, andn with items, buffs, and human versatility I could hit I beleive a 38, 40 if I really tried? I loved wand whipping sheild wands, exp retreat wands (on occasion I took of my striders), raise dead scrolls (saved me a bundle in AP's right there), etc... Honestly when I get done with my TR monk whos a WF this time, I am seriously know I am going to miss that. However, I am testing to see how I like WF, and I must say so far I like them a lot. More than human? Dont know yet, too early to tell.

When I reincarnate my monk back to a halfling I will keep my Cha at 8. Here is my UMD breakdown.

11 Base
3 Cha (8base +2tome +6item)
3 Persusion (cartouche)
2 Shroud (I will make a +2Cha Skills, Greater Fire Resistance, Superior Fire Lore, Blur, {Displacement CL:15 3/3} item. It is really for the static blur, but I figured why not throw +2 cha skills in the mix, since I will be getting full hp's from a mineral 2 cloak)
4 GH (currently have 2 girds, so not reliant on others)
1 Good Luck (trinket)
------------------------------
24 (situational for buffing only)

UMD Usage:
Level 5 Shield Wand: 28 (roll of 4 or higher)
Level 7 Stoneksin Wand: 32 (roll of 8 or higher)
Level 10 Shield Wand: 38 (roll of 14 or higher)
Raise Dead Scroll Wand: 36 (roll of 12 or higher)

Not 100% on the wands and or scrolls, but close enough. That is without any heavy farming. Even the +2 shroud skills can be made fairly quick.

Although not the greatest umd, I think it worth the investment. I won't be scroll healing, but I can be self reliant for the buffs I want.

[Impatiens]

11 Base
3 Cha (8base +2tome +6item)
3 Persusion (cartouche)
2 Shroud (I will make a +2Cha Skills, Greater Fire Resistance, Superior Fire Lore, Blur, {Displacement CL:15 3/3} item. It is really for the static blur, but I figured why not throw +2 cha skills in the mix, since I will be getting full hp's from a mineral 2 cloak)
4 GH (currently have 2 girds, so not reliant on others)
1 Good Luck (trinket)
------------------------------
24 (situational for buffing only)

Just FYI if you don't want to go with the +2 to CHA skills from a Shroud item the fire/pos/fire monk finisher (+2 to saves, skills, and hit) stacks with greater heroism. I assume it stacks with the others as well, but I've only tested with GH. Much easier/cheaper way to get that extra +2 if you are a positive path monk or potentially an easy way to get you up to 26 umd. If someone has all these items to test if it stacks with them that would be awesome. I'm not sure what kind of bonus it is considered.

I'm waiting for the lesser forms of reincarnation to come out so I can redo my monk with UMD for shield wands

[wiglin]

Just FYI if you don't want to go with the +2 to CHA skills from a Shroud item the fire/pos/fire monk finisher (+2 to saves, skills, and hit) stacks with greater heroism. I assume it stacks with the others as well, but I've only tested with GH. Much easier/cheaper way to get that extra +2 if you are a positive path monk or potentially an easy way to get you up to 26 umd. If someone has all these items to test if it stacks with them that would be awesome. I'm not sure what kind of bonus it is considered.

I'm waiting for the lesser forms of reincarnation to come out so I can redo my monk with UMD for shield wands

I will confirm tonight, but I believe it does stack. I guess I could meditate when I enter the dungeon and then have enough ki to cast the FPF buff. Although I would still put the +2 cha skills on the shroud item, since nothing else really better is available to keep the aspect of smoke going. That would actually get my umd up to 27 if I count the head of good fortune instead of the +1 good luck.

[Impatiens]

I will confirm tonight, but I believe it does stack. I guess I could meditate when I enter the dungeon and then have enough ki to cast the FPF buff.

I carry enough passive Ki to cast it without meditating. I really love concentration for passive Ki holding. Having the 15 concentration Shintao Cord certainly helps with that

24-27 UMD seems pretty obtainable. If only those level 5 shield wands were more common than the level 10 ones, I'd hate to waste a bunch of charges but half the time the level 5 wands are as expensive or more than the level 10 ones so you really aren't saving any money by having a wand you can more reliably cast.

[Slaynen]

Wow I'm kind of amaze to see so many people to answer to my thread. But i'm still really confuse about the race.

Can someone tell me why warforge can be better monk (except for immunity and ability to have docent without monk penalty ?)

Up to date, i think, with all the replies, that halfing race have the upper hand...

[Maegin]

Elf.

/palmface

[Maegin]

Wow I'm kind of amaze to see so many people to answer to my thread. But i'm still really confuse about the race.

Can someone tell me why warforge can be better monk (except for immunity and ability to have docent without monk penalty ?)

Up to date, i think, with all the replies, that halfing race have the upper hand...

sorry double post.

Um, wf make good monks because of power attack enchancements and such.

[Mobeius]

Wow I'm kind of amaze to see so many people to answer to my thread. But i'm still really confuse about the race.

Can someone tell me why warforge can be better monk (except for immunity and ability to have docent without monk penalty ?)

Up to date, i think, with all the replies, that halfing race have the upper hand...

Just depends on play style, my monk was human, playing a WF to see how it compares.

WF Immunites are very nice, composite plating, the docents, and WF power attack

However, I wouldnt say its the better race for monk, and halfling is a solid choice just as is human and Warforged are too.

[Arkat]

However, I am testing to see how I like WF, and I must say so far I like them a lot. More than human? Dont know yet, too early to tell.

You'll really love your WF Monk when you get high enough to go into the Subterrane!

[Maegin]

maybe we need rep in the advice channel

Garth

/signed

I like humans. Better healing and more versatile, for my tastes.

Human/Halfing/WF all the same thing. Roll a d4 and pick one, and you win. (a 4 is a reroll )