Tell us how many players are needed for quests

[Letrii]

Ah, the only quest I have personally seen mechanics that prevent soloing would be Xorian Cipher with the 4 pressure plates. Was in there with a cleric and we had to recruit more and run them through the outer area, was a big PITA.

[ddaedelus]

Every quest has a "Recommended # of Players" right on the quest description. Sure it can be done with less, but they tell you right there what they recommend.

Most quests recommend 3 or 4 players, yet we all know that 3 or 4 players is not even remotely necessary in most of those cases. I'm fairly convinced that these recommendations are left overs from before scaling and don't really mean anything anymore.

I think most people here are deliberately missing the OPs point. This isn't a question of difficulty, it's a question of mechanics. Delera two has a lever that requires a party of 2, yes, one can be a henchman, but there is no possible way to do the quest with only one person in your party. The OP is simply requesting that that information be made clear up front so that those of us who solo don't waste our time doing a quest that is not completable by a soloer or soloer + henchman.

[Anarkius]

I understand about dev time, but how many quests are we talking about that would need to have not-solo friendly tag added?

I can think of at least 3 (though I am sure there are more), but I'm not trying to think that hard this 'early'.

Although, the ones I am thinking of can usually be completed with the use of a hireling (The Pit included). The downside to using a hireling is you have to drag them through the whole freakin' thing since you cannot summon them once you move too far away from the quest entrance.

Besides I hate hirelings, I have a hard enough time keeping up with MY character and quickbars, adding another 'AI' driven character to the mix does not help me much if any.

[Kaervas]

This is the kind of thing that would be easier/quicker to put together on the forums or wiki.

This kind of guide would also be more accurate than a simple "requires 2/3/4/etc people" indicator because it could list methods for certain characters to bypass the normal restrictions (eg. d-dooring, using create undead + halt undead, flesh to stone, abundant step/leap of faith), and also mention whether the extra roles could be filled by hirelings or whether they required more sentient beings/very specific stat or ability requirements.
This kind of information would never be compressed into in-game notes as it's spoiler-full.

[Sirea]

I can think of at least 3 (though I am sure there are more), but I'm not trying to think that hard this 'early'.

Although, the ones I am thinking of can usually be completed with the use of a hireling (The Pit included). The downside to using a hireling is you have to drag them through the whole freakin' thing since you cannot summon them once you move too far away from the quest entrance.

Besides I hate hirelings, I have a hard enough time keeping up with MY character and quickbars, adding another 'AI' driven character to the mix does not help me much if any.

What I do is I summon the hireling at the beginning of the quest and park him there until I need him in the third furnace. Then I either dismiss him or keep him parked in the third furnace until the quest is done. Keeps him out of the way so I don't have to worry about him going off getting himself killed.

[ddaedelus]

This is the kind of thing that would be easier/quicker to put together on the forums or wiki.

Agreed.

As a soloer, I am perfectly fine by having to do more research than most in order to play the game in the manner I choose.

It's the "You're not supposed to solo in our game, so ****" stuff that irks me.

[Kaervas]

Regarding bringing hirelings along, you can click the "2 green feet" button when you get far enough away from the hireling and it will warp to you directly, instead of running to you.
It also warps if it cannot path directly to you and is still about a room away.
If it cannot path to you but you are still really close to it, it sometimes takes a while before it realizes it has to warp to be properly next to you.

This means you won't need to put up with the hireling's poor AI as you slog through the dungeon to the point where you actually need him to just sit on a pressure plate or pull a single lever.
I generally take a cleric hireling with DVs (not all of them have it) along and just move him to the room I have just cleared out, so I can bum heals and DVs off him to make my life easier since I paid for the hireling already.

If you don't want to bother with that and have some TP to burn, you can just use a Gold Seal hireling when you get to the exact spot you need one.

[flynnjsw]

Agreed.

As a soloer, I am perfectly fine by having to do more research than most in order to play the game in the manner I choose.

It's the "You're not supposed to solo in our game, so ****" stuff that irks me.

Agreed....I have no issue doing some research or asking questions before/after running a quest.

[Cedwin]

I think most people here are deliberately missing the OPs point. This isn't a question of difficulty, it's a question of mechanics. Delera two has a lever that requires a party of 2, yes, one can be a henchman, but there is no possible way to do the quest with only one person in your party. The OP is simply requesting that that information be made clear up front so that those of us who solo don't waste our time doing a quest that is not completable by a soloer or soloer + henchman.

Sure, and while they're at it, why don't they add in how many puzzles are in each quest, along with how to solve them, for the people who can't figure out the puzzles. Oh and a map with a drawing of where to go, for the people who get lost easily.

That type of info can be found on websites like DDOWiki, not in game, which is where the OP should be looking.

Every quest has a trial and error period when you first run it, finding that you need more than one person is a part of that. If you can't do it alone, go out and get a hireling, or get a group. Likewise, if you can't solve a puzzle, go out and get someone who knows it.

[Anarkius]

What I do is I summon the hireling at the beginning of the quest and park him there until I need him in the third furnace. Then I either dismiss him or keep him parked in the third furnace until the quest is done. Keeps him out of the way so I don't have to worry about him going off getting himself killed.

I was wondering as I posted my previus comment wether this would be a possibility. Having only run The Pit a few times myself, I was in there the other day and got to the third furnace room and was 'reminded' of the air valves. "Crud!!!" (to keep in forum guidelines). Of course having no UMD (poor build design), jump potions, clickies or hirelings; I had no choice but to abandon the attempt. But, not without pulling my Muckdoom!!

Regarding bringing hirelings along, you can click the "2 green feet" button when you get far enough away from the hireling and it will warp to you directly, instead of running to you.
It also warps if it cannot path directly to you and is still about a room away.
If it cannot path to you but you are still really close to it, it sometimes takes a while before it realizes it has to warp to be properly next to you.

This means you won't need to put up with the hireling's poor AI as you slog through the dungeon to the point where you actually need him to just sit on a pressure plate or pull a single lever.
I generally take a cleric hireling with DVs (not all of them have it) along and just move him to the room I have just cleared out, so I can bum heals and DVs off him to make my life easier since I paid for the hireling already.

If you don't want to bother with that and have some TP to burn, you can just use a Gold Seal hireling when you get to the exact spot you need one.

I was unaware that 'gold seal' hirelings could be summoned at any point in quest. Though I have only used my TP for extra character slots, FvS, Drow (on a different server), guest passes and various hair dye, oh and a pirate bandana (on a different server as well). I will have to take a look at the DDO store more closely I suppose.

BTW - I still hate hirelings

[Zenako]

Ah, the only quest I have personally seen mechanics that prevent soloing would be Xorian Cipher with the 4 pressure plates. Was in there with a cleric and we had to recruit more and run them through the outer area, was a big PITA.

There are many ways around presure plate triggers, so those are more an obstacle to some characters soloing, not a core obstacle to soloing. FtS works well as can Hold with timing, toss in a MS as well.

[Zenako]

I was wondering as I posted my previus comment wether this would be a possibility. Having only run The Pit a few times myself, I was in there the other day and got to the third furnace room and was 'reminded' of the air valves. "Crud!!!" (to keep in forum guidelines). Of course having no UMD (poor build design), jump potions, clickies or hirelings; I had no choice but to abandon the attempt. But, not without pulling my Muckdoom!!



I was unaware that 'gold seal' hirelings could be summoned at any point in quest. Though I have only used my TP for extra character slots, FvS, Drow (on a different server), guest passes and various hair dye, oh and a pirate bandana (on a different server as well). I will have to take a look at the DDO store more closely I suppose.

BTW - I still hate hirelings

Yah just grab the cheapest 1st level Gold seal one for level pulling. Often around 10-15 TP if I recall correctly. Did that once when I had no ingame gold ones available, and did not want to bork the EXP on the quest with a reentry penalty. I think it was actually the PIT when I did it, for the furnace room.

[ddaedelus]

Sure, and while they're at it, why don't they add in how many puzzles are in each quest, along with how to solve them, for the people who can't figure out the puzzles. Oh and a map with a drawing of where to go, for the people who get lost easily.

That type of info can be found on websites like DDOWiki, not in game, which is where the OP should be looking.

Every quest has a trial and error period when you first run it, finding that you need more than one person is a part of that. If you can't do it alone, go out and get a hireling, or get a group. Likewise, if you can't solve a puzzle, go out and get someone who knows it.

Your comment about number of puzzles and solutions again misses the point and makes me continue to think you don't understand the request or are simply being difficult. But as to your solution, I agree (see my similar response to Kaervas above).

I was not supporting the OP's suggestion (though I have several times run into the same problem). My post was specifically addressing the claim that "suggested number of people" satisfied what the OP was asking for. It does not.

[Cedwin]

Your comment about number of puzzles and solutions again misses the point and makes me continue to think you don't understand the request or are simply being difficult. But as to your solution, I agree (see my similar response to Kaervas above).

No, I understand what the OP is suggesting, maybe my comparisons weren't clear enough. I would consider putting "This quest requires 2 people" to be a spoiler. I don't want to know that there is a puzzle or switch that requires 2 people to complete, I want to figure that out myself.

[Zenako]

No, I understand what the OP is suggesting, maybe my comparisons weren't clear enough. I would consider putting "This quest requires 2 people" to be a spoiler. I don't want to know that there is a puzzle or switch that requires 2 people to complete, I want to figure that out myself.

And my point along those lines is that what should one reasonably assume about that statement? Does it require 2 people/players or can one player and a Hireling do it?

What about quests like Rest for the Restless. If you are not willing to recall or cannot Dim Door to the start, it is impossible for a single character to do it. If you have a hireling, it is trivial. However, it CAN easily be soloed if you are willing to recall or DIM Door. What would the info text read for that one?

In Von 5 for example, what is the Minimum number there? The Lightning gates COULD be done with just two characters. But the Flame Launcher probably needs 3 (I don't think one person could flip all four switches in time.) Both of those are much easier with 4 or more obviously.

What about a quest like PotP in GH. Should the text read, can be soloed, (if you have twitch skills second to none!), or should it read 2. One could argue that the timing to tumble thru those barriers is darn tight and all but impossible for most.

The point being, at what level do you set the "required" at. Required for average melee players with no spells or hirelings?

[ddaedelus]

No, I understand what the OP is suggesting, maybe my comparisons weren't clear enough. I would consider putting "This quest requires 2 people" to be a spoiler. I don't want to know that there is a puzzle or switch that requires 2 people to complete, I want to figure that out myself.

Ah, okay. That I understand completely.

It's safe to ignore me anyway. I'm just grumpy because, presumably like the OP, I tried soloing the Pit with no foreknowledge of the place whatsoever. I like to go into my quests as blind as possible also... part of the reason I solo.

[Rhysem]

Speaking as someone who runs in a 3-man group most of the time these "minimum N bodies" notices are very needed. You could make nonsense spoiler arguments about the EXTREME warning that pops up too -- but the fact of the matter is it is NOT FUN go get a long way through a quest and then run into a wall you simply can't bypass because you don't have N bodies in the quest.

You can make a group that fills any requirement except body count with 3-man: pallie tank (str/cha), cleric (wis), rogue/wiz (int). Full divine and arcane casting. Can bypass pretty much any runes or doors that get sent their way, plus full trapsmithing. Not that our 3-man is, but after we hit 20 and TR you better believe we will be.

[Zenako]

Speaking as someone who runs in a 3-man group most of the time these "minimum N bodies" notices are very needed. You could make nonsense spoiler arguments about the EXTREME warning that pops up too -- but the fact of the matter is it is NOT FUN go get a long way through a quest and then run into a wall you simply can't bypass because you don't have N bodies in the quest.

You can make a group that fills any requirement except body count with 3-man: pallie tank (str/cha), cleric (wis), rogue/wiz (int). Full divine and arcane casting. Can bypass pretty much any runes or doors that get sent their way, plus full trapsmithing. Not that our 3-man is, but after we hit 20 and TR you better believe we will be.

There is No QUEST in the game that I can think of that would not be easy to do with at least 3 players give your above mix. You might have to be clever and think outside the box on a few, but they are all quite doable.

[Cedwin]

Speaking as someone who runs in a 3-man group most of the time these "minimum N bodies" notices are very needed. You could make nonsense spoiler arguments about the EXTREME warning that pops up too -- but the fact of the matter is it is NOT FUN go get a long way through a quest and then run into a wall you simply can't bypass because you don't have N bodies in the quest.

Figuring out that you need 4 people to solve a puzzle is just like any other obstacle in a quest. Once you figure it out, there are multiple ways to overcome it.

The 4 switches in Xorian for example. You could flesh-to-stone mobs on the switches, or bring in multiple hirelings to stand on them.

[ddaedelus]

And my point along those lines is that what should one reasonably assume about that statement? Does it require 2 people/players or can one player and a Hireling do it?

What about quests like Rest for the Restless. If you are not willing to recall or cannot Dim Door to the start, it is impossible for a single character to do it. If you have a hireling, it is trivial. However, it CAN easily be soloed if you are willing to recall or DIM Door. What would the info text read for that one?

In Von 5 for example, what is the Minimum number there? The Lightning gates COULD be done with just two characters. But the Flame Launcher probably needs 3 (I don't think one person could flip all four switches in time.) Both of those are much easier with 4 or more obviously.

What about a quest like PotP in GH. Should the text read, can be soloed, (if you have twitch skills second to none!), or should it read 2. One could argue that the timing to tumble thru those barriers is darn tight and all but impossible for most.

The point being, at what level do you set the "required" at. Required for average melee players with no spells or hirelings?

(I think you may have quoted the wrong text maybe.)

But to respond to your point: You're splitting hairs that don't need to be split. It's very similar to the poor newbs who ask a relatively simple question in the Harbor and are given the answer plus an exhaustive list of all the possible exceptions regardless of how relevant or likely those exceptions are. It's overwhelming and, while perhaps complete and correct, not terribly helpful.

If I were to be told that Quest X has a mechanic that requires 4 people, but it actually turns out that a wizard with a certain combo of spells and good twitch skills can solo it, I'm not going to feel like Turbine has lied to me, and more power to the wizard who figured that out.

Still, this info is best put into a Wiki.

On a related note, I will point out that several of the Necropolis quests have quest text which specifically tell you that you'll need multiple players in your party.