Pure Arcanist: Sorcerer/Wizard multiclass

[MilleniumEagle]

ok so i am a big fan of the table top Dungeons and dragons, and I love playing as Warlock/Sorcerer/Wizard so I can prestige class into Eldritch thurge and Ulimate Magis. I began playing ddo for many months now and I have been trying various character builds and I so far I have found joy in playing sorcerer/wizard multiclass characters, I would like to hear the good and bad about such characters once again, and if there are possibly any suggestions to maximize its power as well. I would like to hear a good solid debate about this class, however, instead of just saying its bad or good, I would like you to provide proof of your claim so that it is more relavent and has more significance, Happy Debate! ^_^

However now, I am adding the debate over a certain PrE I am suggesting for ddo, after all the kinks get irond out after the debate on the forums, If anybody would be willing to sponsor this PrE on the suggestion forums that would be great and here is my suggestion, this class currently uses all the mechanics from ddo.

Inputs on both are greatly appreciated ^_^

The Ultimate Magus

I took this template from the complete mage, and I altered it to best fit ddo, and allow multiclass arcanists a chance to shine

Ultimate Magi are Arcane spellcasters that blend the powers wizardry and Sorcery, While initially inhibits the arcane casters powers by requiring both sorcerer and wizard powers, at higher levels they are able to learn the higher level spells they would have missed out on had they not blended the two types together and their spells are just as powerful as a pure sorcerer or pure wizard. These are specialists of magic able to cast more spells between each rest as a pure wizard or sorcerer can (example: a sorcerer can cast 3 spells, wizard can cast 4, an ultimate magus of the same level would be able to cast 5 one more than the wizard). Due to this vast array of spell points and spells able to cast at comparable levels, the melee and fortitude strength of these characters is poor at best.

Ultimate Magus I (4 AP)
Prerequisites: cast 2nd level arcane spells from one class; cast 1st level arcane spells from the other. 1 Metamagic feat. Mental Toughness Feat, Arcane classes no more than 6 levels appart

Benefit: The lowest level arcane class can cast spells of a level equal to half the level of the highest level spell casting class. However the caster level of the lowest level class is the same as usual (Example: 4th level wizard/ 1st level sorcerer: the sorcerer class can cast the same amount and level of spells as if he were a sorcerer of level 2)

Arcane Spell Power I (1 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus I,

Benefit: The caster level of your lowest class equals that of half your highest level spell casting class, and the caster level of your both your classes I given a +1

Expanded spell knowledge 1 (2 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus I

Benefit: A player can add one spell of levels 1 2 and 3 from his wizard spell list and add them to his sorcerer spell list, also all spells that are a part of his sorcerer spell list of those levels are added to his wizard spellbook

Arcane Spell points (2 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus I, Wizard Energy of Scholar I OR Sorcerer Energy of Dragonblood I

Benefit: the total spell points the character would have at a given level would be averaged from both classes. The average is derived from the maximum spell points available to each individual class at the current character level (Example: say you have an arcane caster level 8 the spell points would be averaged from the total he would have as an 8th level sorcerer and an 8th level wizard). Also the spell points gained from Wizard energy of the scholar I or Sorcerer energy of the Dragonblood I would be averaged ad well (Example: a wizard gains 20 sp from Energy of the Scholar and sorcerer gains 30 sp from Energy of the Dragonblood, when a character takes this, he gains 25 sp instead of 20 sp or 30 sp).

Arcane Blending I (1 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate magus I

Benefit: The ultimate magus casts her wizard spells at the same speed and power as if they were sorcerer spells. Items that increase spell points of character give the same amount as if he were a pure sorcerer,

Ultimate Magus II (4 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus I, 2 Metamagic Feats, Arcane Classes no more than 4 levels appart

Benefit: The lowest level arcane class can cast the same level spells as if the class were the same level as the highest level arcane class. However the caster level of the lowest class remains the same as usual. (Example 7th level wizard 1st level sorcerer: the sorcerer class can cast the same spells as if he were a level 7 sorcerer; however his caster level will be the same as if he were as 1st level sorcerer. This is purely for example purposes only, a character like this, would not be able to meet the prerequisites.)

Arcane Spell Power II (1 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus II, Arcane spell power I

Benefit: The caster level of your lowest class is equal to the caster level of your highest class. The caster level of both classes is also increased by another +1 bringing the total to +2

Expanded Spell Knowledge II (2 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus II, Expanded spell knowledge I

Benefit: Take one spell of 4th, 5th, and 6th level from your wizard spell list and and add it to your sorcerer caster spell list provided your sorcerer can cast spells of that level after Ultimate Magus II is applied. Also all spells of those levels from his sorcerer spell list are automatically added to his wizard spellbook

Arcane Spell Points II (2 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus II, Arcane Spell Points I, Wizard Energy of the Scholar II OR Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblood II

Benefit: This enhancement functions like Arcane Spell Points I, however as an added bonus, the characters spell points are not derived from intelligence and Charisma as it normally would, instead they are derived from the average of the two bonuses (Example: intelligence is +4 but Charisma is +2 spell points from both classes are derived from a +3 bonus). Also bonus spell points from Wizard Energy of the Scholar II and Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblood II are averaged instead in the same fashion as Arcane spell points I.

Arcane Blending II
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus II, Arcane Blending I

Benefit: The DC for each all spells the ultimate magus has or has in his spellbook are determined by the sum of the Intelligence and Charisma score bonuses

Ultimate Magus III (4 AP)
Prerequisites: Improved Mental Toughness, Ultimate Magus II, 3 Metamagic Feats, Arcane classes no more than 2 levels appart

Benefit: Each Arcane Spellcasting class can cast the number and level of arcane spells equal to the sum of the levels of both Arcane Spellcasting classes

Arcane Spell Power III (1 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus III, Arcane spell power II

Benefit: The caster level of both arcane classes is equal to the sum of the caster levels of both arcane classes; the caster also gets another +2 bonus bringing it to a total of +4

Expanded Spell Knowledge III (2 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus III, Expanded spell knowledge II

Benefit: Take one spell of 7th, 8th, and 9th level from your wizard spell list and add it to your sorcerer caster spell list provided your sorcerer can cast spells of that level after Ultimate Magus III is applied. Also all spells of those levels from his sorcerer spell list are automatically added to his wizard spellbook

Arcane Spell Points III (2 AP)
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus III, Arcane Spell Points II, Wizard Energy of the Scholar III OR Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblood III

Benefit: This enhancement functions like Arcane Spell Points II, however as an added bonus, However the spell point grand total in each class before averaging is determined based upon the sum of the intelligence and charisma bonuses. Also bonus spell points from Wizard Energy of the Scholar III and IV and Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblood III and IV are averaged instead in the same fashion as arcane spell points II and I.


Arcane Blending III
Prerequisites: Ultimate Magus III, Arcane Blending II

Benefit: Any feats, enhancements, or other abilities that only apply to one class also apply to the spells of the other arcane class. Also the caster levels of both classes are added together to determine if the character meets the caster level prerequisites for feats, enhancements or other abilities

I would like to see some constructive criticism on the balance of this class and how to properly balance it, then since I am a free player, I would really appreaciate it if a premium or VIP would sponsor this on the suggestions thread after 100 supporters support this without changes ^_^

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Well, considering there's no way to increase your casting while advancing as another class at the same time (like many PrCs do in tabletop, or even the Practiced Spellcaster feat for just a caster level increase), you end up kinda sucky.

I don't think you could get your Int AND Cha high enough to have decent DCs for both classes, for starters.
And you'll be missing out on higher level spells, just to have twice as many low level spells. Which... considering the spellpoint-based nature of casting here, and the inflated number of spell points over a tabletop character, and the fact you can switch out spells every 3 days as a sorcerer if you need to, such a multiclass isn't really needed.

Oh, and don't think you can go 19Wiz/1Sorc and come away with double spellpoints from items. The game is smarter than that, and you get increased based on a percentage of your level. So a 19/1 would, at level 20 there, be getting 5% more sp, which on a Wizardry 6 item is 7 more.

And you'll hurt your caster level for overcoming Spell Resistance, no matter your multiclass. In this case, you aren't really gaining anything at all.

[bobbryan2]

No real debate here to spark.

Cons - a lot

Strengths - none.

[Sarazahj]

Biggest con of a Sorcerer/Wizard is the lack of high level spells,unless you split something like 1/19,2/18,etc.

You also need to use up pretty much all your starting points towards Cha and Int,meaning you'll be terribly squishy and will drop very,very fast.

It's usually a pretty bad idea to cross those two classes in DDO,but if you're able to make it to end-game while not being a liability then kudos to you.

[Dragavon]

Multiclassing a wizard by adding sorc levels and vice versa is possibly the worst MC you can build in DDO. I don't think many will discuss that

[MilleniumEagle]

Alright I get all of your guy's points lol, at the beginning levels, the sheer amount of spells would be a good trade off, however in the end, you would lose a lot of great qualities, I will probably close this thread now, however, I am going to suggest the Ultimate Magus PrE, that way I might be able to get what I want and to allow pure arcanists like me a chance to really shine

[sephiroth1084]

If you pick up one level of sorcerer on your otherwise pure wizard you gain maybe 100 SP, and lose the capstone (1 to all DCs, ~25 SP, -1 to cost of all metamagics/-1 to each increase of Heighten), a feat, and lose 1 on your spell penetration rolls (I think). So, not worth it at all.

If you pick up one level of wizard on your otherwise pure sorcerer you gain 1 bonus feat. That's pretty much it. And you lose out on the capstone (currently broken, but supposed to increase damage with spells and criticals with spells), as well as a point of spell penetration and probably a fair chunk of SP. So, not really worth it, but if you really need an extra feat, this might be worthwhile.

Taking more than one level yields basically ZERO benefit, as you trade high level spells for additional low level spell slots, which in DDO is basically pointless. You don't gain more HP, saves, skills, attack bonus, SP (maybe a little for wizard, but that's mitigated by losing better spells), useful class abilities or really anything else.

Add to all of this the fact that there is no arcanist combination PrC or PrE in DDO and there is absolutely no reason to splash more than one level of a second arcanist on your primary caster, and even then there is hardly a reason.

Oh, and the general consensus by most folks who play D&D 3.5 is that multiclassing casters with anything that retards spell progression is that: