Tell me about gimping.

[phalaeo]

How badly can one really gimp something? I can see putting min WIS in a cleric, or even less than 18, but so long as you max out your primary stats, how does one or two points elsewhere matter?

OOC, tell me your def of gimping, so I understand the terminology better.

[kaidendager]

I'd say there are two forms of gimping: 1) Making a character that is simply not viable (even with a max stat) and 2) not making an optimal character (this seems to be the general use, its often a bit of an exageration)

To takle your specific question, lets say you have an Elven cleric and put 18 points into wisdom, but leave your Con at 6. This would definetly be a gimped character as it simply is not viable or survivable. Even with optimal equipment you would be a stone in a backpack slot too often (particularly as a cleric).

[hydra_ex]

How badly can one really gimp something? I can see putting min WIS in a cleric, or even less than 18, but so long as you max out your primary stats, how does one or two points elsewhere matter?

OOC, tell me your def of gimping, so I understand the terminology better.

Gimping:
1. Creating an extremely suboptimal character who can do nothing well
2. Creating a character who has a major Achilles heal, by unintentional design (low hit points, low damage)
3. Creating a character who cannot do anything useful, well.
4. Player cannot play a class well.

Examples (note that these are exaggerations):
1. Creating a 6 Fighter, 6 Wizard, 7 Cleric. Can't really fighter, can't really cast, can't really heal, but can still do those things.
2. Creating a TWF scimitar elven barbarian with max strength, max dexterity, 6 constitution, and does not have toughness, or the toughness enhancements. Can dish out great damage, but has too few hitpoints.
3. Creating a mechanic rogue who has max intelligence, and max dexterity, and whose only feats are specialized to deal with traps. Can disable traps well (generally quite useless) and cannot do anything else.
4. A WoW player who tries to play a 14 Paladin/6 Monk centered build. The WoW player is not used to all the twitch gameplay required to play such a character.

Gimping can also be used as an exaggeration to refer to a character who is not min/maxed, although generally this is more of a joke, as many non "optimal" characters are still extremely viable.

[sirdanile]

gimp = unable to be played past level 10 without dieing continously.

gimp = ineffective and resource wasting

gimp = Not just player build but player playstyle, a good player can take a build gimp and make it work, a bad one won't care and will run screaming into the fray with his uber light crossbow 8 con barbarian 4/wizard 1/ fvs 1 (for those wands obviously...)


Also remember you can't do anything at all when you're dead and that taking 2 points out of your main non-casting stat (16) and spreading it into con (14-16) will make for a much better build than 18 str and 10 con.

[phalaeo]

Ah, ok. The times that I've seen this term bandied around are for people who haven't min/maxxed their character, which I just think is silly. I like building Clerics, and I'm more about building Clerics who are perfect for my playstyle, even if they might be 2 points off someone's idea of an uber superduper perfect l33t build.

Here I was thinking "Oh no, did I gimp my dude?" by taking one "wrong" feat or not maxxing out one "MUSTHAVE OMG***BBQ" enhancement. The only thing that I would have changed about Pallai is putting a wee more into jump and balance, so that's not bad for a first timer, methinks.

[Creddi]

gimp = Not just player build but player playstyle, a good player can take a build gimp and make it work, a bad one won't care and will run screaming into the fray with his uber light crossbow 8 con barbarian 4/wizard 1/ fvs 1 (for those wands obviously...)

I'd like to meet the good player that could make a 6 cleric/7 wiz/7 sorc seem anything other than gimp. Some combinations really just don't work in this incarnation of the game.

[Lithic]

2. Creating a TWF scimitar elven barbarian with max strength, max dexterity, 6 constitution. Can dish out great damage, but has too few hitpoints.
3. Creating a mechanic rogue who has max intelligence, and max dexterity, and whose only feats are specialized to deal with traps. Can disable traps well (generally quite useless) and cannot do anything else.

2: Arguably, barbarians are the class that can most easily start with a low con due to their d12 HD, their innate DR, and the bonuses to their con from rage and class enhancements. The difference between a starting 6 con and a starting 16 con is 100hp. If you already have 650hp (not terribly hard for a barbarian), but then drop to 550, will you really notice much of a difference? An elf wizard with 6 con would suffer much more.

3: A mechanic rogue with max dex, assuming finesse feat, would still have 10d6 (base) + 12 (SA damage enh) + 8 (tharnes goggles) added to every swing. Sure it won't output the damage of the 2wf assasin, but to say such a build is completely useless is an extreme exageration.

[hydra_ex]

2: Arguably, barbarians are the class that can most easily start with a low con due to their d12 HD, their innate DR, and the bonuses to their con from rage and class enhancements. The difference between a starting 6 con and a starting 16 con is 100hp. If you already have 650hp (not terribly hard for a barbarian), but then drop to 550, will you really notice much of a difference? An elf wizard with 6 con would suffer much more.

Dranted. But if he does not take toughness and the toughness enhancements, then there's even more hp down. And with frenzy, its not going to be so pretty.

3: A mechanic rogue with max dex, assuming finesse feat, would still have 10d6 (base) + 12 (SA damage enh) + 8 (tharnes goggles) added to every swing. Sure it won't output the damage of the 2wf assasin, but to say such a build is completely useless is an extreme exageration.

Which is why I implied that feats were only used to enhance trap abilities.

[DoctorWhofan]

gimp = unable to be played past level 10 without dieing continously.

gimp = ineffective and resource wasting

gimp = Not just player build but player playstyle, a good player can take a build gimp and make it work, a bad one won't care and will run screaming into the fray with his uber light crossbow 8 con barbarian 4/wizard 1/ fvs 1 (for those wands obviously...)


Also remember you can't do anything at all when you're dead and that taking 2 points out of your main non-casting stat (16) and spreading it into con (14-16) will make for a much better build than 18 str and 10 con.

QFT and adding starting with a 17 in your main stat can make all the differnence...

[Xaearth]

2: Arguably, barbarians are the class that can most easily start with a low con due to their d12 HD, their innate DR, and the bonuses to their con from rage and class enhancements. The difference between a starting 6 con and a starting 16 con is 100hp. If you already have 650hp (not terribly hard for a barbarian), but then drop to 550, will you really notice much of a difference? An elf wizard with 6 con would suffer much more.

Even, and perhaps especially, on a barbarian with low con, you will feel the drawbacks... Your rage duration will suffer, and a barbarian that isn't raged isn't much of a barbarian.

As far as gimped characters, the only things that can truly make a character gimp, in (IMO) order of severity, are:
1) Player playstyle/skill level and build don't mesh
2) Being an AC tank with no means of grabbing aggro (Ok, it works for solo, but, let's be honest, it's gimp in parties)
3) Poor stat distribution (As others mentioned, dump-stat CON tends to be the biggest offender)
4) (Rarest case) Skill distribution

Everything else can be changed with a little time, effort, and knowledge.

[Vanshilar]

You're also gimped if you keep getting bad loot, bad rolls, etc.

That's part of my definition of gimping, it happens all the time

[Krag]

You are gimped if
you fail to fulfill your role on a regular basis.


Who cares if you are undergeared, poorly build or simply a bad player if you volunteer as a main tank and can't hold aggro?

Likewise nobody will ever know about your suboptimal feat choice as long as you have your job done.

[Shamurai]

I like to call my Paladin (lvl 19) gimped because I she was a 28 pt sub optimally stat asigned build with a couple of bad feat selections (my son told me to take DIE HARD because it was the best ~ and sadly I did. That and my first few enhancement choices were... not well planned..

Now..
She is still 28pt build with bad initial stat choices (come on Greater Reincarnation)
buut
~ I have respecced her enhancements
~ I have respecced her feats
~ I have tweaked her gear selection
~ I have hotbarred every darn thing she can use or do
~ I am getting really good at hotbar key spamming

She gets through pretty much every raid without dying except for the occasional oopsy. She's ready for her GR... and after a few more gear acquisitions is looking forward to her TR.

[Razcar]

You are gimped if you fail to fulfill your role on a regular basis.

Agreed. If you build an intimi-tank that cannot get aggro, a DPS-build who cannot kill, a CC-build that cannot control, etc, that could be said to be a "gimp". Or crazy flaws, like a sorc with 18 Int and 8 Cha, or any character with the Snake-blooded feat

There's also the sad case of the nerf-gimp - when the devs change the game mechanics and make some concepts redundant. Since DDO during four years didn't have a respec feature (and still doesn't, coming Soon™) there's quite many of those once OK builds out there in character lists - now decommissioned into mule-duty since the player didn't have the heart to delete them. E.g. Finesse stat-damage melee, batmen, spellsingers, mega-squishies or class-splits that made sense at lower caps.