Lv 10 and up with no groups avaible

[Mjoll]

Just sayin'...

There's a reason us sneaky healers like to go anonymous... and it's not so ppl we don't know can add us to their "friends" list without us knowing, then sending us blind tells. We're not here to be your utility peeps. 1-2 random tells from a person is fine, but if I get them constantly, I squelch.

Or, on the flip side... you could just play a healer yourself
(Though granted, I did not look at your sig to see if you do)

Don't think I torture with tells at least a dozen anonymous healers/day I have been playing DDO for 6 months now but the fingers of one hand are more than enough to count the times I used the friends list when looking of a healer. But I will have to reconsider my rarely used method seeing the reactions of those that play healers.

So...let me get this straight.

You're complaining that you have trouble finding groups and healers because you're not in a guild, but you're not in a guild because you haven't put forth the effort to actually get into one?


Fail.

Yes because if I join a guild I will have to go anonymous since the healers will spam me with tells, begging to grant them the honor of grouping with me. That's how you make it sound, guildless = fail, guilded = win^win when it comes to finding healers. It will sure improve my chances of finding one, but from there to failing for not being in a guild is a long way.

But sure, I fail, me and many other guildless players. And according to your theory when it comes to finding healers those that are guilded are the opposite of "fail" so they "win". On the other hand according to your theory lots of them "fail" because the majority of the guilded players I grouped with did not bring a guildie healer with them, usually the healer being either guildless or from a different guild. That makes them what, fail-win players? Odd eh.

And since you want to get things straight I'm not the one complaining that I have trouble finding groups, you are mistaking me with the OP.

[whysper]

If someone I don't know sends me a tell asking me to join a group when I am not LFG, then how is that different from a blind invite? They are one and the same.

No, they are not. An invite pops up a window right in the middle of your screen and steals mouse focus. A tell goes in your chat box (one which you do not even have to have visible) and you can simply completely ignore it. If the same person keeps bugging you - i.e., might have your name on a list and just tries even though you are anonymous, /squelch is an option if you do not feel like telling them not to keep trying to invite you.

Sorry that you get annoyed with unwanted tells. As I pointed out, though, they have been accepted - encouraged, in fact - as a politer way of trying to find party members when an LFM is up all throughout the years. While need for it has been drastically reduced of late, it is still a valid option used judiciously (i.e., an informative but ignorable message sent to non-grouped people visible in the Who list.)

[whysper]

:

Huh, you wrote from the future! 12-14-2009, 08:07 AM. Double-ninja!

Of course, you said that you weren't in one because you hadn't even tried to find one. THAT is your fail. You don't fail because you're not in a guild, because that's not a reason someone fails. You fail because you're complaining about a problem that would be easily fixed by joining a good guild, yet you won't do that because you don't want to apparently.

It is, though, a problem that should not need to be solved by "joining a guild." Unfortunately for many, doing that is not as easy for many as it is to others. It is a situation somewhat similar to what you see with LFMs: only a small portion is willing to put up theirs. A good number of people are just not comfortable joining a bunch of people they do not really know, or maybe just having to ask to join even people they do know (because it involves a "judging.") On the flipside, of course, there are the WoW/EQ-based people who look for disposable drive-through "leveling guilds" and change theirs every couple weeks.

Me, I am just afraid of commitment.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Yes because if I join a guild I will have to go anonymous since the healers will spam me with tells, begging to grant them the honor of grouping with me. That's how you make it sound, guildless = fail, guilded = win^win when it comes to finding healers. It will sure improve my chances of finding one, but from there to failing for not being in a guild is a long way.

Never once did I say that "guildless = fail, guilded = win^win". Pretty poor attempt at repainting history though, since all anyone has to do is actually read the thread to know that I never said what you're accusing me of saying.

You complained that you needed a safety net of a healer (thus justifying you sending blind tells to clerics/FvS you friended without their knowledge) because you "lacked the confidence and synergy" that comes from playing with the same people more often in this post:

From a guildless and casual player's point of view... I have a different experience than yours, with only a couple of exceptions all parties I've been in always had a healer. I'm talking about f2p quests in the 8-12 range, on all difficulties. Some parties weren't even accepting bards, it was cleric/fvs or nothing. Being a casual player (not having THE perfect build and/or not being twinked to the teeth) and being in a pug (lacking that confidence and synergy you get when playing with guild members or players you know well) means that having the safety net called "healer" is a must most of the time.

I responded to that by saying that you should probably attempt to find one.

Of course, you said that you weren't in one because you hadn't even tried to find one. THAT is your fail. You don't fail because you're not in a guild, because that's not a reason someone fails. You fail because you're complaining about a problem that would be easily fixed by joining a good guild, yet you won't do that because you don't want to apparently.

[Mjoll]

Never once did I say that "guildless = fail, guilded = win^win". Pretty poor attempt at repainting history though, since all anyone has to do is actually read the thread to know that I never said what you're accusing me of saying.

True, you didn't, not with those words. But you just said it again, with other words: "a problem that would be easily fixed by joining a good guild". Not "improved" (which I agree with), not "better" (again which I agree with) but "fixed". And not just fixed but "easily fixed".

You complained that you needed a safety net of a healer (thus justifying you sending blind tells to clerics/FvS you friended without their knowledge) because you "lacked the confidence and synergy" that comes from playing with the same people more often in this post:

It wasn't a complaint, it was more of a conclusion I arrived at after a few months of play. After lots of "we only need a healer now and we are good to go" or "save the last spot for a healer" or "get the healer, melees are a dime a dozen" lines. And after pugs that go like .. me and 5 other people from the same guild, everybody dies except me and I have to rez them... or the healer leaves because we are too squishy and we have to finish without him... or the party has 3 leaders, each of them yelling "follow me"... or there are some really laid back players in the group that are busy voice chatting rather than playing and are constantly dieing and not giving a **** about it...or I draw more aggro by shooting the wrong mob, everyone panics and we wipe... or you say "trap stop" for the 13th time and for the 13th time the same non rogue player runs through it and the quest has a total of 13 traps... and so on and so on. And that is why I'm talking about the safety net which is nice to have since nobody is a seer to know how good/bad the other 5 puggers are. Which doesn't make you less right when saying that most of the time healers aren't necessary for guild runs, both of us can be right at the same time.

As for why I haven't even tried to find a guild... Maybe I want to discover the game mechanics and earlier parts of the game by myself and not to have them spoiled by well-intended people. Maybe I want to struggle a bit instead of giving up after 2 seconds and asking in gen chat "where is the skeletal mage?". Maybe I don't like being babysitted, powereleveled, rushed through quests, outfited by a guild. Maybe my playtime hours are chaotic due to my chaotic work schedule and for now I'm paying attention to which guilds have more members logged whenever I am online instead of quickly joining some guild only to find out that most of them are offline when I'm on. Maybe I'm working on something that requires that I spend quite a lot of time alone and that once I finish a quest I let the group know that I will remain inside the dungeon to learn every nook and cranny (which sometimes takes up to 1 hour, including afking and doing something else when boredom strikes and sometimes I need to do this more than once for the same quest) so they can boot me if they need my spot. Which is fine in pugs since many of them disband after one quest but not as fine when grouping with guildies.

Are these reasons good enough for you or I still fail because I'm doing something inconceivable as not trying to find a guild AND complaining about having it harder to find healers?

Slightly related... One can partially blame Turbine for how they implemented the friends list, I find it silly to be able to add someone without that person being prompted with a yes/no window but I got used to it. I'm also a "victim" of the friends list, receiving tells from people I grouped once or twice that never told me they added me and, very rarely, receiving a blind invite.

And I'll stop here because we are not getting anywhere.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Mjoll, you seem to have absolutely no idea how a guild works.

But whatever, that's not what this is about.


The point I was making was that you said that you "didn't have the confidence because you didn't run with the same people/guild a lot". The logical conclusion is to join a guild. Seriously, it is.

But if you don't want to join a guild, well that's fine by me; I honestly don't care. But it's pretty stupid to complain about "not having the confidence to go without a healer" because you're not in a guild, then flat-out refuse to join a guild. It's almost as if you don't want to fix the problem just so you can keep complaining about it.

[Cyr]

This is both correct and incorrect. Everything in parentheses is very true. What is incorrect is "level range 10-13". 10-13 is a range of 4 levels. 10, 11, 12, 13. A party of this level range, the level 10 would take an xp hit for being power leveled. Yes I know the social panel starts as default of a range of 4 levels but to avoid any xp hit whatsoever the range must be 3 INCLUSIVE( a range of. NOT any number plus or minus 3).

Let's have a real correction here. First off, the social panel actually defaults to a range of +-2 levels of your characters level. This means if you have let's say an 11th level character when you put up an LFM it lists 9-13 by default which of course you can change. This is a bad thing because if you grab a 9 and a 13 the 9 get's power leveled. Now how about that 10 in the party with the 13... No he does not get power leveled. How it actually works is if another player is in your dungeon (not explorer area) that is four or more levels higher then your character you get power leveled. You actually still can earn some XP for a character exactly four levels higher then you (at a reduced rate), but anymore and you get nothing.

And to the OP's complaint (no suggestion noted despite the forum) levels 9-13 can be a tougher spot to find groups for. This has something to do with the fact that most highly run content in those ranges are P2P and many of the new crowd may not own the particular pack. There is however a solution! Put up your own LFM. That said, even in these level ranges I have not had any particular problem pugging through them on a TR.

[Laith]

also, consider that at level10 you should still be able to get some XP from doing lvl5+ quests (house quests, 3barrel cove, necropolis1, etc) on elite... at 9, i'm still getting some from market quests (often lvl3-4) on elite. Since these quests usually complete in 10 minutes or less, it's actually a decent xp per minute rate for the first time on elite. Maybe not great, but the point is you still have a WIDE range of content you can benefit from... not just stuff equal to your level.

You can probably solo much of it too, or at least use it to occupy yourself while waiting for a group.

[Zenako]

Couple of questions for the OP that seem to have been overlooked.

Are they F2P, and if so do that have the box to show all LFM's checked or not.

I am not sure how the Grouping panel handles some of that interaction, but if you were F2P and had not purchased any of the mid/higher level quest packs, would it even show you the LFM's for those? If you checked the show all, then I would hope it would show all the LFM's on the server.

Also which server are you on? One of the new ones Cannith or Orien or one of the established servers? I routinely see 20+ LFM's up on Sarlona in the evenings ranging from starter quests to raids, with a constant flux and turnover.

You would be surprised how quick most groups will fill with viable characters once you post something. There are an amazing number of players who long to play, but are lothe to start a group. I know a guild friend and I were running some house K stuff a while back and decided to just post it for all comers. Took perhaps 2 minutes to fill, if that. Then we banged out the 4 low/mid level quests right in House K.

[Arlith]

No, they are not. An invite pops up a window right in the middle of your screen and steals mouse focus. A tell goes in your chat box (one which you do not even have to have visible) and you can simply completely ignore it. If the same person keeps bugging you - i.e., might have your name on a list and just tries even though you are anonymous, /squelch is an option if you do not feel like telling them not to keep trying to invite you.

It is just as annoying, even if it does not pop up in the center of the screen. I usually look at tells as they come in, you never know when one might be from someone you actually want to hear from. And yes /squelch is an option that gets used, much more often of late than ever before.

Sorry that you get annoyed with unwanted tells.

I don't, I get annoyed with the groups of people swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool sending them.

As I pointed out, though, they have been accepted - encouraged, in fact - as a politer way of trying to find party members when an LFM is up all throughout the years. While need for it has been drastically reduced of late, it is still a valid option used judiciously (i.e., an informative but ignorable message sent to non-grouped people visible in the Who list.)

IF the need for it has been drasticly reduced, then why do I get more tells now than I ever did before? Even when I am Anonymous. If the need is reduced then the majority of those must be "needless" tells.

IF the tells were sent to non-grouped people who are visible in the who list, I would say that is their problem. But I am NOT in the who list and I get such tells when I AM grouped. So, they ARE annoying.

I have already disabled general, advice, and trade chat altogether because the **** running amok in there is no longer worth sifting through. That is a shame, as I thought when they came out they would be useful tools. But they turned out to be just spam omelttes. I guess the next step is to stop accepting tells altogther.

Eventually......

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

[Josh]

You are all saying post a group and it fill quickly with people, which is not always true.
Sometimes there is hour of waiting on anyone who want to join any group.

If you're waiting an hr for a group to fill you're doing it wrong. Most quests can be solo'd in that time. Take the first five that join and go with what you have.

[Glenalth]

My favorite LFM to put up...

"I have no idea what I'm doing, come die with me"

You get the strangest groups that way.

[tfangel]

My favorite LFM to put up...

"I have no idea what I'm doing, come die with me"

You get the strangest groups that way.

Ha! I may have to use that.

[Zenako]

My favorite LFM to put up...

"I have no idea what I'm doing, come die with me"

You get the strangest groups that way.

You been reading Guild Chat

[whysper]

IF the tells were sent to non-grouped people who are visible in the who list, I would say that is their problem. But I am NOT in the who list and I get such tells when I AM grouped. So, they ARE annoying.

Yes, but then you are arguing a different matter entirely. My recommendation was to politely use tells to get group members if LFM fails. This does not and has never included sending tells to people who are anonymous, or who are already grouped. Tells to non-grouped people visible in Who on the other hand have always been considered proper etiquette, and it seemed to me that you were arguing against that advice. Perhaps there was a confusion?

[Vellrad]

I don't know about problems with groups looking for Wizards (I'm a one), i never got any difficulty with finding tanks, its even a wide choice, of them, barbarians, paladins, fighters, monks, and their fancy (and sometimes weird) multiclassings.
I've never had problem with finding a bard or a ranger. Sometimes, but rare, there is a little problem with rogues.
But most of the times there is problem with healers.
Worth of considerig IMO, why that are healers, not any other group of classes.

On comments as "Play as cleric if you can't find them", I'm saying, that from 10 years, when I first time met Dungeons and Dragons I was a Wizard (actualy that was a Mage in AD&D), so I'm unfamiliar with possibilities of playing by clerics, and when I tried it once, I was failing at healing my team. Not everyone got competences to be a healer, and I think we all [players] should respect them.

But on the other hand, there is no oportunity to respect person, you see so rarely.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
One of people said, that if you're waiting on LFG by hour, you should start, even without healer, and you can do solo.
Well, try to do, for example The Xioran Cipher, Invaders or The Enemy Within, with no healing. Even if I would like to take hireling, most of my party members don't like that solution- they're saying that hirelings are weak, stupid and useless (well hard to disagree about their AI), but most of them hopes that healer can jump in the middle of quest, even if he couldn't be found in one hour of waiting. Even if I'm a party leader I must respect my team's member's opinion- its not a dictature.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________

Well, the bright side of LFG is that sometimes team is completing with less than 2 mins. The last record was about 6 seconds . However, it happens very rare.

[ddaedelus]

Often there are no groups avaible, and most of time I spend is on looking for a group.
This is a serious problem of many players, I think.

Aren't there any quests that can be done by one Adventurer from level 10 or higher? I didn't see any quest like that.

I think that an Adventure Pack of some (about 10) unconected quests of level 9-14 or 15 of different duration that could be done only in solo mode would be a great thing.

Wow, this thread is all over the place.

As someone who solos almost exclusively (now watch everyone go all emo about soloers in an MMO) I've noticed the same content gap as you have. It seems that most of the quests in this range are parts of raid-flagging, which is naturally much more difficult than your average quest and definitely not soloable (at level). So, yes, I think something structured like the Sharn Syndicate in a level 10-14 range would be excellent (though longer quests would be nice) and would certainly be something I would buy.

And, more off topic... the few times I've considered starting my own group, I decide against it simply because I don't want the responsibility of managing it. I manage people all day. It is not something I want to do at night as entertainment.

[whysper]

As someone who solos almost exclusively (now watch everyone go all emo about soloers in an MMO) I've noticed the same content gap as you have. It seems that most of the quests in this range are parts of raid-flagging, which is naturally much more difficult than your average quest and definitely not soloable (at level). So, yes, I think something structured like the Sharn Syndicate in a level 10-14 range would be excellent (though longer quests would be nice) and would certainly be something I would buy.

There is absolutely TONS to do in that level range. You probably have to pony up, though.

[Meldoth]

Got a lvl 12 cleric and lvl 7. This may not add a lot to the conversation here but I hardly ever have anyone telling me how to cleric, maybe I'm doing a good job . The other thing is that I really don't mind people sending me random tells asking for a cleric, they're easy enough to ignore, and honestly that's one of the reasons I decided to play a healer when the game first came out.

I don't get enough random tells or random invites to ever annoy me. This isn't an invitation to spam me, but if you need a healer and I'm without a party just kicking it feel free to send me an invite. If you get ignored don't take it personally I could be AFK or busy.

As for the suggestion of no groups available, I think the LFG/LFM system is really good. My only addition would be to have an option to teleport to some LFG area where you can sit there with other people LFG or LFM and walk up and invite them. I don't think it's a necessity but I do think it would be pretty cool to have.

**Edit: One last item about F2P vs P2P I do think the game needs an option to select a checkbox or something so that it will not even allow other people to join the party if the quest selected is P2P and the user doesn't have the module or is not VIP. One thing that is annoying is grouping up at the door everyone ready to go in and some guy is like "oh is this P2P? I'm not VIP" when it's clearly added to the LFM description.