Lurking

[Ministry]

So, I get back about a week ago and instead of hopping onto playing my regular toons, I make up a lowbie alt to take a look around at all the new stuff (well, other than running a little with Wizzly, Eriik and Emma and almost BT - ty bro).

I was curious about how things might have changed in the 7 months I was gone.

The new content I've seen so far has been pretty decent, not earthshaking, but decent.

My biggest concern was what people were loosely and less elegantly referring to in the stratification of players on the server.

Over my time I've seen the general capability and personality of players find their own levels and subsequently friends and guilds.

I was never a big fan of that, as I found I could learn as much from a "so called" elite player as I could someone very new to the game, so despite what affiliation I may have had over my toons' head, I ran with whomever, whenever.

All I've heard about is the F2P vs. established players, the diversion of talent, personality, etc.

Well, it's rampant and so very obvious who is "established" and who is not. The LFM's by so many people stating "experience only", "no F2P" (which I know means some F2P peeps can't get into stuff, but some can...anyways). Now this has really made me laugh, as I've seen names of people I would probably not made an effort to run with, guilds I didn't think much of and mostly... guilds that I scrolled down the LFM to see they never have a toon higher than 9 on, which most likely means they are a newer guild who could probably use some help or should take whoever they could get... "LFM up for TS - toons levels 11-13" stating only expierienced players??? Ummm... the experienced players did that raid at level 7 or 8 and at 11 are in the Vale biding their time to get into the Shroud. argh... These people should try and find Trissa... remember how she use to take ANYONE through that raid on a regular basis... and I mean ANYONE!!

haha

The model as far as I can understand it was to give people a look at the game for free, in hopes they would see enough value to sign up and pay to play.

Is it working?

All I see in the harbor and marketplace are people in general chat complaining that the F2P people can't get any help from the P2P, that P2P peeps are ******s, etc... etc...

So, I made up a few lowbie alts and ran with a bunch of groups over this past week who I know are newer and / or F2P peeps.

Ummm... they weren't that bad.

Once upon a time I read in a thread where newer players weren't finding the support they hoped for in the game and the odd one ran into someone like Trissa, Memnir, Clay, Hootch, Braegan and a few others that showed a modicum of kindness and it went a LONG way.

Here's hoping there are others out there occasionally taking the time to help out the newer players, as the more we get, the more money Turbine gets and the better chance the game continues and grows.

Anyways... blah, blah, blah...

See ya in game.

[Varr]

Excellent thread and I know many on Thelanis are happy to have you back. I could not agree more with the attitude and suggestions listed.

I will say, I've turned selfish and want all of you other long time players to do this. I was forced to salvage a von 5/6 run on Cannith and find it a terrible burden doing the teamy thing and right by others. I rarely put on the headset now to avoid guiding. After years of being inclusive and teamy I've been overwhelmed or become jaded.

So for the good of the game all that can, be good role models and share the love.......so I don't have to.

[Ministry]

Excellent thread and I know many on Thelanis are happy to have you back. I could not agree more with the attitude and suggestions listed.

I will say, I've turned selfish and want all of you other long time players to do this. I was forced to salvage a von 5/6 run on Cannith and find it a terrible burden doing the teamy thing and right by others. I rarely put on the headset now to avoid guiding. After years of being inclusive and teamy I've been overwhelmed or become jaded.

So for the good of the game all that can, be good role models and share the love.......so I don't have to.

TY Varr.

Oh trust me, I know EXACTLY what you mean. Before I took my time away I was never in Vent, rarely on headset and stopped teaming with anyone I didn't know.

There comes a time where too much "love" can take its toll on ya and I would regularly be heard by my friends to be SCREAMING... "Why oh Why do I help others???" "My time is waaay too valuable" - blah, blah, blah... too funny.. I can almost hear myself saying those things and months later, just want to kick my own arse. haha

What you did in VON is what you and many other vets have done over the time and it does get to be a bit much. I would be one of the last people to say, "Hey all you Uber DDO peeps, quit pharming ingredients and help some new people out... all the time.

I'm just hoping that some are still doing a little here and there. When I think about the people I teamed with in Legion, Pestilence, DWAT, BANE, GSI, Maelstrom, Darpa, IFV, Storm Lords and all the other top guilds... if almost any member of those guilds took a few hours every once in a while to help out some new players, things would be so much better.

Hell, for all I know they already are... check this thread out - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=156768 and see Clay helping a guy who wants to become a better mentor.

+1 rep to both those guys.

[Thrudh]

I TRed my barbarian into a fighter (I'm planning on doing it again back to a barbarian), and I've been almost 100% focused on him for the last two weeks...

All I do is PUG, and the groups have not been that bad... It helps that I'm twinked to the gills, so I've carried the team a few times, but I've seen very few really bad groups.

I've led the Pit 3 times, no issues... I did Xorian Cipher the other night, 4 people in the group had never done it... I had to explain what was happening, and we moved slow... but we got it done. Ran VON 5-6 with a bunch of newbs... the leader was very patient and explained everything... He did a great job...

[Wizzly_Bear]

I try to help out, but my patience wears out real quick fast and in a hurry when dealing with numbskulls who don't have two neurons to rub together (like you didn't already know), and its the multitude of these that I constantly run into who predispose me to not be in much of a helping mood for those who are worth my time and effort to help.

[LawstCawz]

I try to help out, but my patience wears out real quick fast and in a hurry when dealing with numbskulls who don't have two neurons to rub together (like you didn't already know), and its the multitude of these that I constantly run into who predispose me to not be in much of a helping mood for those who are worth my time and effort to help.

Wizzly starts out with zero patience, which slowly builds up as he gets to know you.

[Ministry]

Wizzly starts out with zero patience, which slowly builds up as he gets to know you.

Oh Hell ya... I KNOW!!!

Every time I have been on a team with him (too many), I know he will either make someone drop group, cry, get angry or all 3.



Although, I know when my RL brother and his wife tried DDO for a few weeks that Wizzly was very helpful to them.

If that boy can help... I'm pretty sure anyone / everyone can.

Anyways... enough of this thread...

Some people have helped
Some people will help
Some people won't help

**** the forums are boring nowadays...

*yawn*

Time to help a noob...

*tapping* "So... anyone gonna help me or what?"

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I actually think that they are "that bad".

But it doesn't bother me and I still have fun with them.

[Nezichiend]

Wizzly starts out with zero patience, which slowly builds up as he gets to know you.

Lol I was gonna call him out on that too!

You have to earn his lovvee <3

[Bunker]

I actually think that they are "that bad".

But it doesn't bother me and I still have fun with them.

When you say they, do you mean F2P new players?

[Freeman]

I spent a decent amount of time tonight sitting in the marketplace answering questions in advice channel. Everyone that asked questions was polite, well-spoken, and grateful for the help. I've also pugged a decent amount with some of the new people. Generally, I've seen some really bad players in that time, but the majority have ranged from good to excellent players. Most don't have experience, but as long as they are willing to listen to advice, I don't have any issue bringing them along.

In a Shroud run last weekend, we had a wizard that didn't have any Shroud experience. In part I, we told him to help the other caster kill trogs, and he did that with no issues. He'd never done the crystal in part II, and my wife showed/explained to him exactly what needed to be done. He nailed it first try, with the "attune the altar" message popping up the instant the last Lt died. It takes little to no effort to teach a halfway decent player about the quests. The more players that can handle the quest, the easier it is to fill raids, and the faster you can start running them. To me, it benefits us all in the long run.

Of course, you also have to squelch a few idiots along the way

[Wizzly_Bear]

Wizzly starts out with zero patience, which slowly builds up as he gets to know you.

haha, sounds about right actually, though I do default a bit higher than 0 for friends of friends and such ( I assume they wouldn't introduce me if we couldn't handle each other, lol )

Oh Hell ya... I KNOW!!!

Every time I have been on a team with him (too many), I know he will either make someone drop group, cry, get angry or all 3.



Although, I know when my RL brother and his wife tried DDO for a few weeks that Wizzly was very helpful to them.

If that boy can help... I'm pretty sure anyone / everyone can.

Anyways... enough of this thread...

Some people have helped
Some people will help
Some people won't help

**** the forums are boring nowadays...

*yawn*

Time to help a noob...

*tapping* "So... anyone gonna help me or what?"

Umm...yeah when you sign on ftard

I haven't been on much lately with the new job and the holidays, and will be on even less Jan 19th when the new semester starts (ft work and school ftw ). I haven't seen you on when I've been on lately though. I always play Wizzly and always post a general hello in HT when I sign on so its much easier for me to be found than to find others.

[SpanishBlueEyes]

I have had some mildstones i wanted to achieve before i go on a few months break (due to moving) and with my RL being crazy busy i was a month behind with release but when i got back a month after release the new players i met were generally bad but not all. I havent pugged as much as i use to due to my schedule i have been using my wonderful friends and wonderful guildies to help me achieve some things in the very limited time i do have, but once i get settled (around Feb/ March) i should be back in the pugging and adventuring mode. I am glad you created this thread. I do think some of our unspoken heros of the game dont get enough credit when credit is due. Oh and before i forget. I would like to thank the TOD group that help Rake get her first completion and Wizzly for draggin my noob arse to get flagged.

[Wizzly_Bear]

btw...we all noob it up sometimes so I (and you who are reading this, but mostly me) should try to have some patience, provided of course that they have more than a couple neurons floating around in their skulls. Hell, I just effed up a Titan yesterday workin the pillars (missed 1 to lag, and 2 to him moving at the last second and me not stopping in time), and in a Storm Lords run of all things - talk about embarassing oneself

[Wizzly_Bear]

I have had some mildstones i wanted to achieve before i go on a few months break (due to moving) and with my RL being crazy busy i was a month behind with release but when i got back a month after release the new players i met were generally bad but not all. I havent pugged as much as i use to due to my schedule i have been using my wonderful friends and wonderful guildies to help me achieve some things in the very limited time i do have, but once i get settled (around Feb/ March) i should be back in the pugging and adventuring mode. I am glad you created this thread. I do think some of our unspoken heros of the game dont get enough credit when credit is due. Oh and before i forget. I would like to thank the TOD group that help Rake get her first completion and Wizzly for draggin my noob arse to get flagged.

I don't think you're as much of a noob as you think you are.

as to the f2p... I think in a couple more months once more of the little kids and WoW refugees either settle in/down or realize this isn't the game for them and leave that the f2p group will be much more tolerable.

That or Turbine will keep lowering the bar to cater to lowest common denominator and then many of us won't be around anymore to complain about the f2p.

[Ministry]

Umm...yeah when you sign on ftard

I haven't seen you on when I've been on lately though. I always play Wizzly and always post a general hello in HT when I sign on so its much easier for me to be found than to find others.

Been on a few times over past couple of days and haven't seen you on.

I've got 2 new lowbie alts I've been playing to have fun and hang out with the newer players instead of jumping back into the raid system, which ultimately bored me out of the game.

I always add ya to my friends list and start up House T each new roll up of a toon.

Did it again tonight.. helped out some new players. Was fun and kinda gratifying.

But... I'm getting a bit restless to see what the new stuff is all about. Eriik and Emma took me on that Inspired Chain (4 or 5 quests) and it was kinda cool. I wouldn't mind capping a toon to do a TR some day, but no biggy... just getting my feet wet again in the game. Just got out of a Tangleroot and had to stop and think about the wheels for 1/2 a sec. hahaha

Now who's the noob...

[Wizzly_Bear]

Been on a few times over past couple of days and haven't seen you on.

I've got 2 new lowbie alts I've been playing to have fun and hang out with the newer players instead of jumping back into the raid system, which ultimately bored me out of the game.

I always add ya to my friends list and start up House T each new roll up of a toon.

Did it again tonight.. helped out some new players. Was fun and kinda gratifying.

But... I'm getting a bit restless to see what the new stuff is all about. Eriik and Emma took me on that Inspired Chain (4 or 5 quests) and it was kinda cool. I wouldn't mind capping a toon to do a TR some day, but no biggy... just getting my feet wet again in the game. Just got out of a Tangleroot and had to stop and think about the wheels for 1/2 a sec. hahaha

Now who's the noob...

I barely raid anymore, especially only having one character so you wouldn't need to worry about that. I also haven't done much of the Inspired stuff (and not any of the newest) so I wouldn't mind doing those myself. Wizzly finally made 15 yesterday to. Sweet 16 here I come

[Kojo_Von_Mojo]

The model as far as I can understand it was to give people a look at the game for free, in hopes they would see enough value to sign up and pay to play.
Is it working?

1. Yes, that was the idea, but only in part. The other was to make the DDO store a real revenue stream. You'd be amazed how many f2p people I know that have spent what amounts to a couple of months sub for turbine points.

2. Yes, it's working.

[Grosbeak07]

Welcome Back Ministry, even if we never did quite see eye to eye.

But you make a valid point, new players are no worse than they ever have been. However, there are a TON more of them, than there used to be. In the old days, if you were a new player, very often you would join a pug with 5 vets. It was a great learning experience, you got to see how the quest was done and actually learn it. More importantly you also got to learn how a group works, what classes were responsible for what and learned the group dynamic.

These days you can join a pug with 5 new players and 1 vet, and to complicate it (by Turbines design) the 5 new players have all reached level 6 pretty much by soloing everything. So not only do they not know the quest well or a lot of the game mechanics they have no idea how to operate or behave in a group. What ends up happening is 6 people try to solo the quest, which works sometimes... but often ends up in disaster. With dungeon scaling, there is no incentive for vets to pug with larger groups, meaning there are fewer and fewer people available to help the new players learn these important and critical aspects of the game.

[Ministry]

Welcome Back Ministry, even if we never did quite see eye to eye.

Dude, not seeing eye to eye with me is and always was normal, but you and I are on good terms. Hell, even some of the nicest people in the game and I have our differences... just ask Coldin from GSI. We would pretty much do whatever we can to help the other, but we will not hide our differences and opinions...

It was one of your guildies that raised my ire against your guild and then some of your guildies started on me and then they got more than they could handle... haha. You know me, the only time I get seriously upset is when someone is treating someone poorly in the game, and then they go on my naughty and / or hit list (oh I miss the good ole days). BTW... appreciated your PMs since that time.

With what I've heard about this new model, I had an even more stark fear of what ****ed me off so much in the past. New players suffering the abuse of more vet players who expect way too much or act like ******s / elitists. Like you stated... in the past a new player would come onto a team and would be the only new player, so they may feel a bit shy and uncomfortable, but the other 5 would carry them through with no problem. Now you find teams like what Varr found himself on and you are the only vet trying to carry a whole group through a raid. That can be very challenging and only for the strongest of hearts and patience (Trissa) on a regular (TS Nights) basis.



I think people too quickly forget where they were once upon a time.

My first full day playing ddo, I had NO clue what I was doing and somehow managed to get onto an STK run with a couple of people who were RL friends and knew DDO already. I fell to my death 3 or 4 times, had a Rogue with horrible skills so I couldn't do anything but fall to my death and in the end, they laughed and we had fun and we completed and they invited me to their guild. Shortly after I was an officer and regularly leading runs and raids.

I remember a Legion member who joined one of my LFM's back almost 2 years ago who didn't know a GH quest and was fumbling and dying, etc.. etc.. I teased him and told him to just relax and let my Wizard deal with everything. We got through it just fine and afterwards we became good friends and teamed now and then. One of the reasons / people why I joined Legion a while after.

In the end, I'm just hoping that anyone who reads this remembers, and maybe reminds another person somewhere along the way when they start to lose their cool.

BTW... ty to all those who gave me some rep points...I don't even know what the hell to do with them... edible?