BAB 20 vs. 19

[Samadhi]

For those with the number crunching and the stopwatches that we love so much - is there currently a significant attack speed difference between these BAB's or is it (currently) no more significant than the 18 vs 19 difference?

[Twerpp]

I think its broken down at 5/10/15/20 now.
All I know is haste is still good and madstone is better.

[Samadhi]

I think its broken down at 5/10/15/20 now.
All I know is haste is still good and madstone is better.

I *thought* that it was currently tiered as you stated but wasn't claiming my memory was up to the task

I've been phasing out madstone quite a bit, despite the definitive benefits of it, just due to the number of mobs that spam healing curse anymore. Annoying to say the least - would rather be able to break the potion over my head at the very least if I'm too mad to drink it ><

[SimVerg]

Believe it's 1 animation step/bab/minute(so, 2 less attacks with gtwf, 1 less with s&b and THF).

[Erekose]

I think its broken down at 5/10/15/20 now.
All I know is haste is still good and madstone is better.

I am under the impression 5/10/15/20 was changed to

1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

The original BAB would mean 19 = 15 BAB right?

Anyone confirm BAB since last change?

[Shade]

Anyone confirm BAB since last change?

5/10/15/20 are the only increases.

20 provides a significant and noticable increase. Multi-classers beware.

[Junts]

Each point of BAB is worth roughly 1 attack per minute, modified by hastening effects, etc. 19 vs 20 is consequently pretty much always just one attack, but say 16 vs 20 can end up being 5 or 6 due to stacking haste bonuses.

[Junts]

5/10/15/20 are the only increases.

20 provides a significant and noticable increase. Multi-classers beware.

This is utter, completely wrong, ******** that any simple test can demonstrate.

You are misleading the community.

[Impaqt]

This is utter, completely wrong, ******** that any simple test can demonstrate.

You are misleading the community.

Actually, hes right. Speed increases occur at 5/10/15/20.

THe game Originally scaled 1-20. THats not the case anymore since Patch 2 Ithink it was.

[Junts]

Actually, hes right. Speed increases occur at 5/10/15/20.

THe game Originally scaled 1-20. THats not the case anymore since Patch 2 Ithink it was.

This is simply not true, Impaqt, and simply timing your attacks per minute with a BAB 19 and BAB 20 character with identical weapons can easily demonstrate that it is not true.

Go take a 19 and a 20 bab character, haste each one, and swing a greataxe for 1 minute counting.

You will not vary by more than 2 attacks. If you re-test a few times, you will find that you vary by 1.

There is no speed jump threshold between 19 and 20 BAB.


It's clear neither of you have done any attack speed indexing or testing in the last month.

[Impaqt]

This is simply not true, Impaqt, and simply timing your attacks per minute with a BAB 19 and BAB 20 character with identical weapons can easily demonstrate that it is not true.

Go take a 19 and a 20 bab character, haste each one, and swing a greataxe for 1 minute counting.

You will not vary by more than 2 attacks. If you re-test a few times, you will find that you vary by 1.

There is no speed jump threshold between 19 and 20 BAB.


It's clear neither of you have done any attack speed indexing or testing in the last month.

In Patch 1, the BAB Progression was linear levels 3-20.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=356

In patch 2, it was changed to 1/5/10/15/20
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...tch_2_Official

If it is not working that way now, Its a bug and Should be reported.

no, I have not checked in the last month.. Why would we of? THere has been no announced change since Patch 2. But I will now.

[Junts]

In Patch 1, the BAB Progression was linear levels 3-20.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=356

In patch 2, it was changed to 1/5/10/15/20
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...tch_2_Official

If it is not working that way now, Its a bug and Should be reported.

no, I have not checked in the last month.. Why would we of? THere has been no announced change since Patch 2. But I will now.

Feel free; I've been doing attack speed indicies for my dps calculator, using my 20 bab paladin and my 19 bab paladin, and the difference is negligible. Its possible the jumps at 5, 10 and 15 are larger, but the one at 20 isn't worth more than an attack per minute.

[Dexxaan]

5/10/15/20 are the only increases.

20 provides a significant and noticable increase. Careless Multi-classers beware.

Fixed that for you.

This is utter, completely wrong, ******** that any simple test can demonstrate.

You are misleading the community.

And of course, if Junts is correct......then OMG 1 Attack less per minute! Dooooom!

PS: MultiClass ONLY if you know what you are doing. Otherwise stick to Vanilla-Pure Builds.


.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Feel free; I've been doing attack speed indicies for my dps calculator

Is this something you would care to make available to the public?

[Impaqt]

Feel free; I've been doing attack speed indicies for my dps calculator, using my 20 bab paladin and my 19 bab paladin, and the difference is negligible. Its possible the jumps at 5, 10 and 15 are larger, but the one at 20 isn't worth more than an attack per minute.

WOuldt the real test need to be comparing 16,17,18, and 19 though?

[Samadhi]

In Patch 1, the BAB Progression was linear levels 3-20.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=356

In patch 2, it was changed to 1/5/10/15/20
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...tch_2_Official

If it is not working that way now, Its a bug and Should be reported.

no, I have not checked in the last month.. Why would we of? THere has been no announced change since Patch 2. But I will now.

This is what my "memory" corresponded to but I have done no testing to confirm, hence the question to begin with.

[Junts]

As I lack characters with those BABs, I must say I possess a keen lack of interest in their attack speeds and an inability to test them. Someone with a 15, 16 or 18 bab character, however, is invited to test their s/b, thf and twf attack speeds under the following conditions:

hasted only
hasted+10% static bonus (zeal or tempest)
madstoned only
madstone+10% static bonus
hasted+biggest haste boost available to rog13 (35% right?), and rog 1 (15%): HB should be used twice in the minute, and both times activated after you start counting
hasted+10%+haste boost
madstone+hasteboost
madstone+10%+hasteboost

Repeat your test 3-4 times and average the results. Make sure you do not have to drink pots or anything else while testing; the only non-swinging action you should do is the activation of haste boosts, if appropriate. Do not pre-activate a haste boost (losing the activation delay will pervert the numbers).

I possess no more than mild curiousity about 17. 15-16 are interested since that is where 13 rog/6 ran/1 builds end up, and those are real dps builds who's attack speed outputs are of importance. 18 are 18/1/1 exploiter builds.

there's not a serious dps build I know of that has a 17 BAB.

As for making that information public, it would be a little premature at this point.

[Impaqt]

As I lack characters with those BABs, I must say I possess a keen lack of interest in their attack speeds and an inability to test them. Someone with a 15, 16 or 18 bab character, however, is invited to test their s/b, thf and twf attack speeds under the following conditions:

hasted only
hasted+10% static bonus (zeal or tempest)
madstoned only
madstone+10% static bonus
hasted+biggest haste boost available to rog13 (35% right?), and rog 1 (15%): HB should be used twice in the minute, and both times activated after you start counting
hasted+10%+haste boost
madstone+hasteboost
madstone+10%+hasteboost

Repeat your test 3-4 times and average the results. Make sure you do not have to drink pots or anything else while testing; the only non-swinging action you should do is the activation of haste boosts, if appropriate. Do not pre-activate a haste boost (losing the activation delay will pervert the numbers).

I possess no more than mild curiousity about 17. 15-16 are interested since that is where 13 rog/6 ran/1 builds end up, and those are real dps builds who's attack speed outputs are of importance. 18 are 18/1/1 exploiter builds.

there's not a serious dps build I know of that has a 17 BAB.

As for making that information public, it would be a little premature at this point.

So bottom line is you dont "Know" either....

THere IS an attack increase 19-20. We seem to agree on that. Exactly what the increase is is what the question is.

What is "Insignificant" for some may be important to others.

Telling Shade and me (and the release notes) that we are Wrong, and then admitting you havent actually tested it yourself either is pretty silly.

[Junts]

No, since the question is relevant to 19 vs 20, and the difference is typically 1 attack out of 110-130, Shade's specific statement that implied it was a huge, dps-significant jump is in fact complete hogwash, and what I was trying to dispel. The assumption that BAB19 does statistically significant damage to a character's dps ability is patently false.

My observation in testing below the 15 bab threshold suggests that 1 bab/1 attack is generally the pattern, though its entirely possible it isn't an even curve. That is, equally, of complete irrelevance to the question Samadhi asked, which related to 19 to 20.

[Impaqt]

No, since the question is relevant to 19 vs 20, and the difference is typically 1 attack out of 110-130, Shade's specific statement that implied it was a huge, dps-significant jump is in fact complete hogwash, and what I was trying to dispel. The assumption that BAB19 does statistically significant damage to a character's dps ability is patently false.

My observation in testing below the 15 bab threshold suggests that 1 bab/1 attack is generally the pattern, though its entirely possible it isn't an even curve. That is, equally, of complete irrelevance to the question Samadhi asked, which related to 19 to 20.

Shade was NOT responding to the original Question, but a Separate question posed in the thread....