I hate Barbarians...

[Cedwin]

wand usage, bow strength, +2 against a favored enemy, rapid shot, and TWF. So it would be better to actually start out as 2 ranger then go into barb TWF in this manner.

Self Healing. Not off just pots. Be able to use wands.

THF...another thing I hate. I have some nice Greatswords taking up mulespace... But will except TWF

Sounds like that's what she wants anyways, since 2 ranger will grant TWF, with the added benefit of wand usage.

[SpanishBlueEyes]

I have a barb and barb is my fav class. But i hardly ever rage. I use my rage for that extra to hit per swing on long fights such as boss's and such. i do have power attack on all the time and with my green steel min 2 GA on a crit without raging i am getting 230. I dont knock people who rage all the time as it can help out in their dps if they are a splash of some sort, but i built mine to be major dps without rage. And you can just get rage cast on you or a pot and still be able to use a wand. And once you are lvl 17 barb you can dismiss your rage so you can heal if need be. I think it is great you are trying a barb and i wish you luck.

[Shamurai]

aaaah I misunderstood this was about self healing, which is "hard" to do while raging, but they can still be healed by others... duh I shoulda got that! But does drinking a pot end the rage?

Re: Healing during a fight ~ Lay on Hands has kept me fighting on MANY MANY occasions! I love it!

[Cedwin]

I have a barb and barb is my fav class. But i hardly ever rage. I use my rage for that extra to hit per swing on long fights such as boss's and such. i do have power attack on all the time and with my green steel min 2 GA on a crit without raging i am getting 230. I dont knock people who rage all the time as it can help out in their dps if they are a splash of some sort, but i built mine to be major dps without rage. And you can just get rage cast on you or a pot and still be able to use a wand. And once you are lvl 17 barb you can dismiss your rage so you can heal if need be. I think it is great you are trying a barb and i wish you luck.

Really? Do you not have the FB prestige enhancements? That adds another +1 to your crit multiplier at level 12, then another +1 at 18 while raging. So a x4 GS weapon would do some serious crit damage while raging with FB at level 18+.

Not to mention all of the other added benefits like increased str, con, hitpoints and saves.

As I've seen in other posts, an un-raged barbarian is just a gimped fighter with no AC.

[Cedwin]

aaaah I misunderstood this was about self healing, which is "hard" to do while raging, but they can still be healed by others... duh I shoulda got that! But does drinking a pot end the rage?

Re: Healing during a fight ~ Lay on Hands has kept me fighting on MANY MANY occasions! I love it!

No, drinking pots doesn't end rage, but the pots you can drink only return around 20-30 hitpoints, unless you have some healing amp items/enhancements. At level 15, my barb has around 500 hitpoints... that takes a LOT of potions to fill up.

The silverflame potions are nice, but you have to do some major favor grinding to use them, and when you do use them, you have to stand around and wait for the side effects to wear off.

[Emili]

Yeah, because of the Rage mechanics, even Wand or Scroll healing gets difficult. It's gotta be the pots.

Do the Silver Flame pots heal WF less?

Yes Silver Flame Pots heal WF for a little less, You can take Healers friend though to even it up a little.

Sirgog, suggested human for a reason... -> stacking healing amp up to the 180-200% + range easier. Turns two or three csw pots into an heal scroll as far as hp regen basically, also when a cleric does hit you with a heal spell, the more observant ones notice it lands for double their norm.

1.) FB - is the best dps you get out of a barb, a level 20 death frenzied is just crazy in game with how quick it may kill mob... tactical play like stuns and trips land well and even the glancing with procs now produces enough dps that mob are just falling dead left and right. Even using regular rage on a FB seems nearly double the output of the old crit rage barbs to me.

2.) Healing Amp - is funny, my DR is probably average for a Barb but in shroud part one I'll eat a tasty ham and death frenzy on portals and the clerics never notice am doing damage to myself, but healing the few points it's doing back by myself. In mass cure groups of melee you're more then topped during battles.

3.) Will saves - Barbs have great will save for a melee when raged, while not like a cleric, FvS, pally, monk they may get awful close to some especially buffed up some. It's a lot harder to put significant will save on a figher or rogue, you need to splash there to come close to what a raged barb can pull off.

4.) Dr - toss a 500hp 50+ac ranger in midst of 10 trash mob and do the same with a 650hp 20ac barb - if you did a testing - the difference is almost the same, the ranger's ac is not quite high enough to matter and is getting grazed down 1-3 hp with every mob around and taking a direct hit once in a while (the ac ranger needs more gear to get into the 60 mark to count)... the bard is taking every direct hit but grazing does nothing because DR covers it. It just about equals out.

In the thick - among melee the barb plays a little differently, you expect to take damage... but there are ways of actually mitigating and even avoiding quite a bit of it when you're a high-to-max dps melee build with little AC. Tacticals, and movement and one thing people do not see or think about often... i.e. you may have complete agro so stand behind the 74ac pally you're groupped with - you now are sporting a shield even though your hands are holding a GS min II greataxe - the shield is the pally. The mob on a regular attack is swinging at you but the pally is in the way.

[Missing_Minds]

Yes Silver Flame Pots heal WF for a little less, You can take Healers friend though to even it up a little.

So standard 50% reduction before healing amps along with all of the negative stuff that happens for a time?

Sirgog, suggested human for a reason... -> stacking healing amp up to the 180-200% + range easier. Turns two or three csw pots into an heal scroll as far as hp regen basically, also when a cleric does hit you with a heal spell, the more observant ones notice it lands for double their norm.

How are you getting healing amp that high? What am I missing?

non WF base (100%) + human (30%) + finger necklace (10%) + greensteel weapon (30%) = roughly 170%. Only monks can get higher, but she's not doing a monk.

WF base (50%) + WF healer friend (25%) + finger neclace (10%) + docent of blood (10%) + greensteel weapon (30%) = roughly 125%

now I'll grant you, the math is NOT that simple, (infact it is flat out wrong. Much like division by zero.) but it gives the idea.

[Stormanne]

Hmmm, after three and a half years of playing barbs, I'd say that the best possible solution is as follows...

Go full barbarian, taking as many rage, con, toughness, and DR boosts as AP allows. Make sure you have enough HP to give a dedicated healer time to heal other members of the party and then you. Make sure you have enough rage and STR to kill whatever is in front of you before it kills you. A blur/displacement clickie wouldn't go amiss. Silver Flame pots in a pinch, but a cleric or favored soul is going to be better than any self healing.

[gizmos19]

Self healing barbarian is not possible.

When you rage you can't use most stuff that heals. If you don't rage ... its like a Bard that never sings.

OK, on paper yes, (some Barb18/Rogue2 with UMD), but ingame not. You must Rage. Theoretical yes, but ingame not practical. Just roll a Kensai Fighter18/rogue2 (evasion and umd) if you want wands/scrolls.

Sorry, Barbs *must* Rage. When you Rage, no hjeel. Barb is like a F1 car. Goes **** fast, but needs a full team of mechanics.

this is true . YOU CANT CAST WHILE RAGEING . but you can after 2min or so . and then you heal up self buff up and rage and do it again

[Missing_Minds]

Who, does keeping a hireling along count as self healing?

[EAB]

Hmmm, after three and a half years of playing barbs, I'd say that the best possible solution is as follows...

Go full barbarian, taking as many rage, con, toughness, and DR boosts as AP allows. Make sure you have enough HP to give a dedicated healer time to heal other members of the party and then you. Make sure you have enough rage and STR to kill whatever is in front of you before it kills you. A blur/displacement clickie wouldn't go amiss. Silver Flame pots in a pinch, but a cleric or favored soul is going to be better than any self healing.

What he said. Finally some one talks the basics. Spec your class right and focus on killing/damage and let the healer do their job to keep you alive. BTW, please feel free to post your build as I am curious.

[Maldavenous]

Just gear up for HP and bonus healing. My Barb has a ton of HP but it's never been an issue seeing he has such a high bonus to incoming healing. It also helps your pots. I'll call this one "If you're going to be a sponge be the most absorbent sponge you can be!" So on those lines I'd say step 1 is:

Make a Human

Beyond that Gear, Gear, Gear, Gear.

Outside of that I can't say much more, I hardly ever use wands even on my characters who have free access to them, it's just easier to buy chugs and pop 'em when you need 'em. That way I don't have to worry about starting to beat the raid portal/raid boss/hoard of mobs with my wand and it's just quicker. Though Heal Scrolls are another story if you can get enough UMD, but that's questionable on a Barb.

If you want UMD I'd say the above class mix 18/2 Barb/Rog suggestion works best. That way you can also have evasion, which is fairly nice on making sure you take less damage.

Myself, I'd just go STR/CON as my only stats and a straight 20 Barb for maximum face poundage.

[DoctorWhofan]

First of, since i forgot to mention it, I KNOW you canot heal when Raged. I just need a "comfort zone" for me. I couldn't play a WF, even a Wizzy one until I made a clericial one with a level of Sorc. These days, If I cannot buff myself even a little bit with resorting to pots, I will not play the character. My Sorc can heal and Rasie Dead, so can my pallys (that's WITHOUT the raise dead/LoH enhancement) I have Fighter/pally who can use the resist wands...

I guess I am saying, I need something more "rounded" for soloish behavior. While I party about 95% of the time, i try not to be a burden to anyone. I hate it when I have to heal the barbarian, even between rages, not because I hate healing, but because of all those HP.

What I didn't know is how much healing enhancements do. I wonder if half the Barbs. I run around with actually take it. I am leaning towards Human. Ranger splash looks good. How about a cleric? Dumb or not? Outside using the full scope of wands (poison, healing, etc.) few spells(nightshield!) and scrolls, is there negatives to it?

[shinmade]

After playing +9 (?) clerics you would think someone would seek some release from the burdens of healing and make a FB WF Barb max STR with a healer/repairman strapped to your backpack.

[DoctorWhofan]

After playing +9 (?) clerics you would think someone would seek some release from the burdens of healing and make a FB WF Barb max STR with a healer/repairman strapped to your backpack.

I love to heal. I rarely see it as a burden.

[spifflove]

18/2barb /rouge
max str /max con every outher stat is a dump

Do not dump dex or wisdom. Now at the cost of insightful reflexes you can move points from dex into intelligence.

max str
1 point per point buy into con
rest in dex and wisdom

Especially on a 2 rogue build because without dex evasion will not work.

[Cedwin]

What I didn't know is how much healing enhancements do. I wonder if half the Barbs. I run around with actually take it. I am leaning towards Human. Ranger splash looks good. How about a cleric? Dumb or not? Outside using the full scope of wands (poison, healing, etc.) few spells(nightshield!) and scrolls, is there negatives to it?

The main con would be that you would lose 1 BaB by taking a splash of cleric, which is why I would go with ranger, who also has access to those wands you mentioned.

Human for the bonus feat, and the healing amp, 2 ranger for the favored enemy and TWF feat, and the rest barbarian. Keep str and con as high as you can keep them, with at least 17 dex for GTWF.

[Gunga]

Silver Flame pots in a pinch, but a cleric or favored soul is going to be better than any self healing.

No.

What he said. Finally some one talks the basics. Spec your class right and focus on killing/damage and let the healer do their job to keep you alive. BTW, please feel free to post your build as I am curious.

No.

Though Heal Scrolls are another story if you can get enough UMD, but that's questionable on a Barb.

If you want UMD I'd say the above class mix 18/2 Barb/Rog suggestion works best. That way you can also have evasion, which is fairly nice on making sure you take less damage.

No.

The dps that Dr. Who would be missing out on by not going 20 is negligible considering her request for a self-sufficient barb.

Storm, If you build your barbarian needing a favored soul attached to you at all times, you won't be playing him as much.

EAB, this isn't rocket science, it's all pretty basic.

Mald, I throw heal scrolls, reconstructs, stoneskin, GT, teleport, recitation and any scrolls I feel like on my 15/2 Barb/Rog. It's hardly questionable.

18/2 Human FBIII is a great build...It'll be my first TR. Good luck, Doc.

[Emili]

...
How are you getting healing amp that high? What am I missing?

non WF base (100%) + human (30%) + finger necklace (10%) + greensteel weapon (30%) = roughly 170%. Only monks can get higher, but she's not doing a monk.
...
now I'll grant you, the math is NOT that simple, (infact it is flat out wrong. Much like division by zero.) but it gives the idea.

I had to ask too... ... and gfunk (who's always been a trusted source) and others had done all the leg work. Healing amp has that air to it similar to caster damage outputs...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...06#post2104706
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=164601

It all has to do with the order of things.

[DoctorWhofan]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Keatheran Vor'shall
Level 6 Neutral Good Human Male
(4 Barbarian \ 2 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 148
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 6\6\11
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 6
Will: 0

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 6)
Strength             18                    20
Dexterity            14                    15
Constitution         16                    17
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 6)
Balance               4                     6
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         3                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  3                     5
Hide                  2                     2
Intimidate            1                     5
Jump                  8                    13
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search                3                     3
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  8                    13
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

There you go. Pick it apart please.