Reincarnating as a Barbarian

[Xaearth]

You missed what I said on this point. Up to level 9 was just an example to get a feel for the build. So 4 points of STR give you what +2 more to hit and damage. A whole 2 points is not worth staying pure.

So what I am saying is that Oversized TWF adding to dps since you can fight with both in each hand with only -2 to hit. Toughness helps keep you alive along with a high CON.

...
Anyone got a good facepalm pic?
Oh wait, we can't link images here can we? Ah well...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So what I am saying is that Oversized TWF adding to dps since you can fight with both in each hand with only -2 to hit. Toughness helps keep you alive along with a high CON.

OTWF is not needed. No barbarian will miss, ever, except on a 1, even with the extra -2 penalty and a -4 penalty while moving. Their to-hit is just too high to miss. For that matter, at higher levels few if any melee classes miss except on a 1 even withing OTWF. My rogue for example fights exclusively with 2 rapiers without that feat and only misses on a 1.

Barbarian is about the only class that I'd argue doesn't need toughness. Barbs already have a good con score and high hp. They should hit 600 without toughness and more than that just isn't needed anyway. It is true that at low levels a few extra HP don't hurt, but by the time you hit L10 or 12, really you have more than you need on a barb anyway.

[Nyvn]

I don't need to justify my self and really the argument with Impaqt is that he is being a self righteous tool. By the way you spelled English wrong. If you can't spell or type then you have 0% credibility. Thank you for thinking for me and telling me when and where I can post. You are guilty of not leaving this alone and I didn't hear Impaqt asking or needing your help. By the way I haven't lost and not scared by your useless threats, as I have just begun!!!!


Nyvn: Here are the feats I would take. This is with level 1 and 2 being fighter level and the rest Barb.

01 TWF Toughness
03 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh Oversized TWF
06 ITWF
09 Cleave
12 Power Attack
15 Improved Critical
18 GTWF

So what I am saying is that Oversized TWF adding to dps since you can fight with both in each hand with only -2 to hit. Toughness helps keep you alive along with a high CON.

So

20 Barb gets +2 To Hit and and average of 2.5 Damage per hit, with critical hits factored in.


<


18/2 Fighter/Barb gets +2 To Hit and ~17% increase in HP?

Which means 2.5 Damage per hit < 17% HP.

Are you planning on taking all the Toughness enhancements? If so you might want to plan them out because you might be a bit tight on AP.

[natakeu]

This is begining to get out of control. Options I see are agree to disagree or just let it go. EAB doesn't seem to want to listen and this is an uphill battle to nowheresville. Turbine never said to anyone this is how you must play and obviously if this is what they want so be it. My own view is if 80% of the forum's major players are commenting that something is wrong about the build then I would listen, but that's my oppinion. Which as oppinions go everyone is entitled to.

[EAB]

So

20 Barb gets +2 To Hit and and average of 2.5 Damage per hit, with critical hits factored in.


<


18/2 Fighter/Barb gets +2 To Hit and ~17% increase in HP?

Which means 2.5 Damage per hit < 17% HP.

Are you planning on taking all the Toughness enhancements? If so you might want to plan them out because you might be a bit tight on AP.

Yes, I was planning out taking the Toughness enhancements, both class and racial. Otherwise id not then it's not worth the feat for only 23 hit points. BTW to show that I am open minded, I did make a 1st level pure Barb.

Notice that Nyvn is making perfect sense with his posts, putting and asking for specific detail. Along with no spelling mistakes or errors. This is an example of a educated person and actually getting somewhere. If you don't sound like you are educated, then no one will listen to you.

[Xaearth]

Yes, I was planning on taking the Toughness enhancements, both class and racial. Otherwise if not, then it's not worth the feat for only 23 hit points. By the way, to show that I am open minded, I did make a 1st level pure Barb.

Notice that Nyvn is making perfect sense with his posts, putting and asking for specific detail. Along with no spelling mistakes or errors. This is an example of a educated person, and this discussion is actually getting somewhere. If you don't sound like you are educated, then no one will listen to you.

Fixes in red for those of us that cannot read "educated"...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yes, I was planning out taking the Toughness enhancements, both class and racial. Otherwise id not then it's not worth the feat for only 23 hit points. BTW to show that I am opened minded, I did make a 1st level pure Barb. this is a gramatic nightmare and makes no sense.

Notice that Nyvn is making perfect sense with his posts, putting and asking for specific detail. Along with no spelling mistakes or errors.Sentence fragment This is an example of a educated person and actually getting somewhere. If you don't sound like you are educated, then no one will listen to youHave you read your first paragraph and applied your standard to it?.

I've never claimed to not make spelling errors or typos. I don't think these forums are worth the effort of ensuring perfection.

It is however very funny for someone to repeatedly say that your opinion has no value and you are stupid if you make typos or gramatical errors in a post that is full of them.

[Tanka]

I'd give this thread my Tanka Seal of Approval (patent pending), but since we can only link images here, you're out of luck.

[Lanceroy]

Don't splash a Barbarian if you're a typical Two Handed, which isn't your case so I'd splash.
I would reincarnate into Barbarian14/Ranger6(Tempest) and max my constitution so my rage lasts at least 5min, get enough wisdom to buff myself with ranger spells and Barbarian 14 is all you need for Critical Rage II.

[Xaearth]

Don't splash a Barbarian if you're a typical Two Handed, which isn't your case so I'd splash.
I would reincarnate into Barbarian14/Ranger6(Tempest) and max my constitution so my rage lasts at least 5min, get enough wisdom to buff myself with ranger spells and Barbarian 14 is all you need for Critical Rage II.

Except Critical Rage II is no longer available...

[Thrudh]

On a Barb DO NOT SPLASH. Plus, DO NOT SPLASH. The only acceptable barb splash is 2 rogue for evasion, and that's only for a high dex barb and even then, its a question.

I disagree with this sentiment... I would amend it to... On a Barb, DO NOT SPLASH MORE THAN 2 LEVELS... You HAVE to get 18 levels of barbarian for Frenzied Berzerker III, or you're a gimp barbarian... FB III is WAY too powerful... You cannot skip it... The devs made a big mistake here in my mind...

But the capstone and 19-20 barbarian can easily be skipped... It's only a net +4 to STR and +2 to CON.

That's pretty insignificant compared to what you can get... Two extra feats if you splash fighter (and some decent enhancements), evasion if you splash rogue (and occasional extra DPS from sneak attack)... Both give you Haste Boost, which more than makes up for the +3 damage you lose per swing as a THF barbarian...

We're talking doing 97% of max barbarian DPS and gaining a few things... That is not so terrible that you can shout in caps DO NOT SPLASH BARB...

Actually, technically, against most raid bosses, an 18/1/1 Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger would have better DPS than a pure barbarian... The ranger level would get you favored enemy: evil outsider (worth +3 damage per swing - so you're even with the pure barbarian against evil outsiders), PLUS you also get the Haste Boost and feat from the fighter level...

[Thrudh]

Stunning blow is worth more than +3 damage per swing...

Auto-crits beats +3 damage per swing every day.

I can agree with you guys that going pure barbarian is a very good idea... I vehemently disagree with you that losing 3 damage per swing on a character that routinely does 100 per swing is a big deal...

You're not gimp if you're missing 4 STR... Are you saying that any barbarian who doesn't have his ToD +2 exceptional strength ring finished is doing crappy DPS?

When did 100% of max possible become the only answer? What is wrong with 97% of max damage, but you get evasion and UMD? Or two extra feats like toughness and stunning blow? And again, Haste Boost, used by a skilled player at the right times, can get back most of that 3% loss...

How are these not REASONABLE trade-offs in your mind? You may consider them not to be optimal, and not a choice YOU would make, but can you really say that anyone who splashes 2 levels is a gimp barbarian who can't keep up?

FB III is the real force multiplier... +4 STR is just icing

[Thrudh]

Don't splash a Barbarian if you're a typical Two Handed, which isn't your case so I'd splash.
I would reincarnate into Barbarian14/Ranger6(Tempest) and max my constitution so my rage lasts at least 5min, get enough wisdom to buff myself with ranger spells and Barbarian 14 is all you need for Critical Rage II.

You can't get critical rage II anymore... Anyone who is going barbarian needs to get 18 levels of barbarian... FB III is a huge jump in DPS...

FBIII gets you a +1 critical multiplier
Death Frenzy gets you +4 STR, ANOTHER +1 crit multiplier and 4d6 viscious damage.

That is giant.

[EAB]

I disagree with this sentiment... I would amend it to... On a Barb, DO NOT SPLASH MORE THAN 2 LEVELS... You HAVE to get 18 levels of barbarian for Frenzied Berzerker III, or you're a gimp barbarian... FB III is WAY too powerful... You cannot skip it... The devs made a big mistake here in my mind...

But the capstone and 19-20 barbarian can easily be skipped... It's only a net +4 to STR and +2 to CON.

That's pretty insignificant compared to what you can get... Two extra feats if you splash fighter (and some decent enhancements), evasion if you splash rogue (and occasional extra DPS from sneak attack)... Both give you Haste Boost, which more than makes up for the +3 damage you lose per swing as a THF barbarian...

We're talking doing 97% of max barbarian DPS and gaining a few things... That is not so terrible that you can shout in caps DO NOT SPLASH BARB...

Actually, technically, against most raid bosses, an 18/1/1 Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger would have better DPS than a pure barbarian... The ranger level would get you favored enemy: evil outsider (worth +3 damage per swing - so you're even with the pure barbarian against evil outsiders), PLUS you also get the Haste Boost and feat from the fighter level...

OMG, this is what I have been saying the whole time. Good to know that someone else understands that you can multi class to make your Barb more powerful and that most of the time the capstone is not worth being a pure class and i this case pure Barb. Thank you, I rest my case.

[Nyvn]

Stunning blow is worth more than +3 damage per swing...

Auto-crits beats +3 damage per swing every day.

As I said in an earlier post the value of stunning blow is dependent on what content you regularly run. If you mainly fight monsters immune to stun, bosses, constructs, undead, ect. Then it's obviously less powerful than if you do mainly normal quests.

[EAB]

Just wanted to show you all proof that I am right.

Look at the stats with 1,000HP and notice they took 4 levels of Fighter. Anyone that would say this isn't a great build is insane.

A screen shot is worth 1000 words.

Look at this screen shot!!!!

If you doubt the source I am one step ahead of you on that one. It is from DDOcast.com.

[Gunga]

Just wanted to show you all proof that I am right.

Look at the stats with 1,000HP and notice they took 4 levels of Fighter. Anyone that would say this isn't a great build is insane.

A screen shot is worth 1000 words.

Look at this screen shot!!!!

If you doubt the source I am one step ahead of you on that one. It is from DDOcast.com.

Terrible. Good luck.

[Tanka]

And all but three feats were wasted on Toughness.

That does not a good character make.

[Shade]

Look at the stats with 1,000HP and notice they took 4 levels of Fighter. Anyone that would say this isn't a great build is insane.

One of the worst builds I've ever seen.

Bad saves
Poor DR
Poor/Horrible DPS (Depends on his feats, likely all toughness)
Enough hp to be a huge mana sponge while providing nothing useful to the party.

Reroll.

[Tanka]

One of the worst builds I've ever seen.

Bad saves
Poor DR
Poor/Horrible DPS (Depends on his feats, likely all toughness)
Enough hp to be a huge mana sponge while providing nothing useful to the party.

Reroll.

If it was 18/2 rather than 16/4, he could at least save his build by respeccing out all but one Toughness in exchange for the THF feats, PA and Cleave (assuming he only has three feats, he probably kept Crit Rage, so those three Fighter feats are most likely the THF chain anyway).

It's not terrible, but it's far from good.