Reincarnating as a Barbarian

[Hanam]

The reasons have been stated, but I'll repeat them for your benefit:

+2 str from capstone
+2 str from Mighty Rage (plus other benefits - +2con/+1will save)
+glancing blow damage/chance of special effects on galncing blows

Compared to the 2 fighter splash:

+Tower Shields? Heavy Armor?
+Feats - and this is the argument that was made: Can you name 2 feats that give greater benefit to this character then the pure 20 barb advantages listed above?
+1 str
15% haste boost 5/day 20 sec each.

The other argument that was made was a 2 rogue splash - which, for a TWF barb, grants you evasion with a decent reflex save (situationally very good with uncanny dodge), arguably the best feat in the game from a survivability standpoint. Also unlocks UMD, not too shabby either.(15% haste boost and +1 dex)

*fix fix fix*

[spifflove]

Originally Posted by EAB
because you lack the ability to read and right basic English
+1

You're the best.

Thats sig worthy

[excess]

Thanks Hanam, I actually realized I was missing these (str enhancement and haste boost) after posting - the str may or may not be as useful as the capstone depending on the bracket you end up at various gear levels. The haste is always nice, though if that were my only concern I'd go rogue for it .

[EAB]

The reasons have been stated, but I'll repeat them for your benefit:

+2 str from capstone
+2 str from Mighty Rage (plus other benefits - +2con/+1will save)
+glancing blow damage/chance of special effects on galncing blows

Compared to the 2 fighter splash:

+Tower Shields? Heavy Armor?
+Feats - and this is the argument that was made: Can you name 2 feats that give greater benefit to this character then the pure 20 barb advantages listed above?

The other argument that was made was a 2 rogue splash - which, for a TWF barb, grants you evasion with a decent reflex save (situationally very good with uncanny dodge), arguably the best feat in the game from a survivability standpoint. Also unlocks UMD, not too shabby either.

Now we are getting some ware. The 2 extra feats would be Khopesh's and greater 2 weapon fighting. Also, you don't have to give up taking toughness. We both know that AC is not a stat for this class as you want do do as much damage as possible and kill before being killed. So then the question is this. Is the DPS higher from duel wielding Khopesh's or the capstone for a DPS build. If not then I will admin mutli class is not a good idea for this build. I just can't stand it when someone says there way is better with out examples or facts to backup what they say.

[natakeu]

Personally, in my perspective, I only do pure class so I can't comment very well with everyone else on the what is better best ect. I can tell you that I am an old fashioned min/maxer that liked to keep Barbarian simple/stupid.

In my experiances with 18 str/20 con Dwarf Great Axe build everything for the most part has turned out for the best. Buffs generally put my str in the 54-60 range and the apx 900 hp typically makes you any party's best friend when the guy next to you takes a few hits and nearly 50-70% of his hp is gone. Your hp will drop at most by 1/3 with those same inbound hits and you can sustain death a max of 3 times before needing to bow out. The only reason in the future I plan on reincarnating this master of survivability would be for the +4 to add wisdom to a 12 to increase saves, especially after tossing tomes on it.

As it stands now I can achieve a will save of 20ish, I can't remember totally right now since I havent been able to play for two and a half months. The point is will saves on melee's are starting to show more importance when you dont have the boots of anchoring and your tangoing with the General in ToD.

Just my two cents, give pure barbarian a try to to say level 6-8 try out the new stuff on your own. If you like what you have as it stand then keep going with what you got. If you feel multi-classing is your thing then you can do it later at your own whim.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

First off this is not my best build. I put this together as an example because you lack the ability to communicate. I wanted to show you the point of taking the extra feats sine you frog turd size brain would not understand what I was saying. No brother I feel sorry for you, as again because of your ability to read and right basic English, you keep ignoring my questions trying to go off topic because you lack the use of your brain.You keep saying that at level 20 that I would regret this build? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY? Same with the enhancement, you can't even explain why some of them suck. Now you are going off topic a level 20 Pally build, ***? I never said any thing about 2d6 to all evil undead. If you can do is just make claims with no facts, then what you are saying doesn't hold credit. Also, showing a lvl 20 build would be a waste of my time since again you lack the ability to answer questions and give specific examples.

Insulting other players in violation of the TOS.

Not understanding how the game works by thinking a player is "making claims with no facts" when they are giving you the factual data on capstones

Failing to look at a L20 build saying it doesn't matter, and L20 is the only level that maters when considering a MC because that's where you take the main trade off

Insulting others abilities to "read and right" english... now that's funny. You might want to look the words "right" and "write" up in the dictionary, assuming you can work one, before insulting others english abilities.

[EAB]

Insulting other players in violation of the TOS.

Not understanding how the game works by thinking a player is "making claims with no facts" when they are giving you the factual data on capstones

Failing to look at a L20 build saying it doesn't matter, and L20 is the only level that maters when considering a MC because that's where you take the main trade off

Insulting others abilities to "read and right" english... now that's funny. You might want to look the words "right" and "write" up in the dictionary, assuming you can work one, before insulting others english abilities.

Ever heard of something called freedom of speech? This is another example when someone is trying to deflect from the main topic. Not a good argument strategy.

[Junts]

Now we are getting some ware. The 2 extra feats would be Khopesh's and greater 2 weapon fighting. Also, you don't have to give up taking toughness. We both know that AC is not a stat for this class as you want do do as much damage as possible and kill before being killed. So then the question is this. Is the DPS higher from duel wielding Khopesh's or the capstone for a DPS build. If not then I will admin mutli class is not a good idea for this build. I just can't stand it when someone says there way is better with out examples or facts to backup what they say.

Those aren't the extrafeats; if you had 2 less feats, they are not the first 2 feasts you drop.

[Xaearth]

Ever heard of something called freedom of speech? This is another example when someone is trying to deflect from the main topic. Not a good argument strategy.

Freedom of speech does not apply when the medium upon which the "speech" is conveyed is the property of some other entity.

You can spew whatever you want, but that doesn't give you the right or the expectation for it to be printed in The New York Times.

[Impaqt]

Both you and Impaqt keep saying that you wouldn't take a splash in multi class for a Barb. However, that is all you keep saying. Please explain why?

It was Explained. 4 Points of STR is not worth giving up for feats you dont need.

No one cares about Level 9. But even here, we see a build that is heading down the wrong path. No barb needs Oversize Two Weapon Fighting or Power Critical. Power Critical is laughable... OTWF is handy for about 3 levels.... and most can get by without it with no trouble at all.

Otherwise you guys sound like egocentric noobs who have not really dealt much with multi class builds.

I've designed, built, and play a multitude of Multiclass builds.

With that said since you can't backup your claims then both of you guys can role a pure Barb while the best of us can put some thought and planning into making a good build.

Actualy, I already have, you just dont like my reasoning. that doesnt mean I didnt explain it multiple times.

Here is an example build that I am talking about up until level 9. I have done some thing very simular with Drow Pally. Taking 2 levels of fighter and duel wielding khopeshe's. I didn't bother to pick all the enchantments but you get the idea. Please tell me why this would no work?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 9 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 7 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 9)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 9)
Balance               5                     7
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            3                     7
Jump                  3                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Barbarian)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical

Its not about "Not Working" The character is certainly playable. Its about inneficent use of your stat points and Feats. ABout having stuff in the build thats useless and missing things that pure barbs get.

[Impaqt]

Now we are getting some ware. The 2 extra feats would be Khopesh's and greater 2 weapon fighting. Also, you don't have to give up taking toughness. We both know that AC is not a stat for this class as you want do do as much damage as possible and kill before being killed. So then the question is this. Is the DPS higher from duel wielding Khopesh's or the capstone for a DPS build. If not then I will admin mutli class is not a good idea for this build. I just can't stand it when someone says there way is better with out examples or facts to backup what they say.

lol. You cant just indiscriminatly pick out 2 feats and call those your "Extras".
a Khopesh Speced barb is going to take Kopesh regardless of whether or not he has Fighter levels. and I have NEVER seen a TWF speced bard without GTWF. thos are NOT extra.. those are core, critical feats for the build.

You have to look at all the feats and say to yourself. WHich out of these feats could I run without?

if the answer is None of em. THen you've created a good build. If you can pick out a couple that are doing you little to no good, you wasted those extra feats and gimped the build.

[Tanka]

Ever heard of something called freedom of speech? This is another example when someone is trying to deflect from the main topic. Not a good argument strategy.

Good thing Turbine isn't Congress.

[EAB]

It was Explained. 4 Points of STR is not worth giving up for feats you dont need.

No one cares about Level 9. But even here, we see a build that is heading down the wrong path. No barb needs Oversize Two Weapon Fighting or Power Critical. Power Critical is laughable... OTWF is handy for about 3 levels.... and most can get by without it with no trouble at all.

You missed what I said on this point. Up to level 9 was just an example to get a feel for the build. So 4 points of STR give you what +2 more to hit and damage. A whole 2 points is not worth staying pure.

I've designed, built, and play a multitude of Multiclass builds.

So we honestly care? Do you really think that any of us care? Means nothing as everyone and their mom who plays DDO has.

Actualy, I already have, you just dont like my reasoning. that doesnt mean I didnt explain it multiple times.

It's not your reasoning it's your failure to explain things that make sense. Also, learn how to spell and type.

Its not about "Not Working" The character is certainly playable. Its about inneficent use of your stat points and Feats. ABout having stuff in the build thats useless and missing things that pure barbs get.

Nooo really? I thought we were baking cakes here. Again learn how to spell as it is really sad since this forum has a spell checker built in. This is the whole point of the argument and topic is about. As you said the "stuff" that Barbs get, that's exactly what I am talking about. So other then +2 hit and damage by taking 2 levels of fighter as Barbs missing any thing else. or as you would put, what other "stuff" are they missing? Is it the "stuff" inside teddy bears? LMAO

[Nyvn]

Now we are getting some ware. The 2 extra feats would be Khopesh's and greater 2 weapon fighting. Also, you don't have to give up taking toughness. We both know that AC is not a stat for this class as you want do do as much damage as possible and kill before being killed. So then the question is this. Is the DPS higher from duel wielding Khopesh's or the capstone for a DPS build. If not then I will admin mutli class is not a good idea for this build. I just can't stand it when someone says there way is better with out examples or facts to backup what they say.

Khopesh and GTWF are your extra feats? You can't fit those into your Lvl 20 non human barb?

01 TWF
03 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh
06 ITWF
09 Cleave
12 Power Attack
15 Improved Critical
18 GTWF

They seem to fit in fine for me...

I'd consider Toughness and Stunning Blow the extra feats gained from 2 levels of Fighter. They're nice but better than 4 STR? That's debatable. If you primarily used Min II Khopeshes then you could switch Improved Critical for either Toughness or Stunning Blow. Like every build decision it's a trade off, however the math is fairly clear on this one.

[EAB]

It was Explained. 4 Points of STR is not worth giving up for feats you dont need.

No one cares about Level 9. But even here, we see a build that is heading down the wrong path. No barb needs Oversize Two Weapon Fighting or Power Critical. Power Critical is laughable... OTWF is handy for about 3 levels.... and most can get by without it with no trouble at all.

I've designed, built, and play a multitude of Multiclass builds.


Actualy, I already have, you just dont like my reasoning. that doesnt mean I didnt explain it multiple times.



Its not about "Not Working" The character is certainly playable. Its about inneficent use of your stat points and Feats. ABout having stuff in the build thats useless and missing things that pure barbs get.

Khopesh and GTWF are your extra feats? You can't fit those into your Lvl 20 non human barb?

01 TWF
03 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh
06 ITWF
09 Cleave
12 Power Attack
15 Improved Critical
18 GTWF

They seem to fit in fine for me...

I'd consider Toughness and Stunning Blow the extra feats gained from 2 levels of Fighter. They're nice but better than 4 STR? That's debatable. If you primarily used Min II Khopeshes then you could switch Improved Critical for either Toughness or Stunning Blow. Like every build decision it's a trade off, however the math is fairly clear on this one.

If you take 18 levels of Barb and 2 of Fighter then you will get 2 extra feats to fill the gap. The argument is that, is it worth giving the level cap up for that. What do you think?

[Nyvn]

So what feats are you picking for your 2 fighter levels? That's how you evaluate build decisions. Is X>Y or is X<Y or does X=Y. To do that you need to state specificly that you getX from this build decision and Y from this build decision.

Simply saying 2 feats without saying which ones you'd take is useless. For example;

20 Warforged Barbarian

01 TWF
03 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh
06 ITWF
09 Cleave
12 Power Attack
15 Improved Critical
18 GTWF

18/2 Warforged Barbarian/Fighter

01 TWF
03 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh
06 ITWF
09 Cleave
12 Power Attack
15 Improved Critical
18 Toughness
1F Stunning Blow
2F GTWF

So the Pure Barbarian has 4 more strength or +2 To Hit/Damage

The 18/2 has Toughness (22 Feat HP + up to 40 Class Enhancement HP + up to 40 Racial Enhancement HP = up to 102. If an average Barbarian has 600 HP then you're improving you HP pool by roughly 17% if they a larger pool then the gained % is lower. ) and Stunning Blow. However few Barbarians take all of the racial Constitution Enhancements or the Toughness Enhancements so you'll end up with an even smaller %. Stunning Blow is nice but it's hard to quantify. Do you mainly fight monsters immune to it? Do you mainly fight monsters susceptible to it? Or are you somewhere in between? All three place different weights on stunning blow.


So what's your comparison? What two feats are you taking and what do they provide your build over +2 To hit/Damage?

[Quarks]

So we honestly care? Do you really think that any of us care? Means nothing as everyone and their mom who plays DDO has.

Nooo really? I thought we were baking cakes here. Again learn how to spell as it is really sad since this forum has a spell checker built in.

Yay!! The uber-noob of the year tells us that Impaqt can't build characters!
And Mr. 'read and right english' speaks about spelling mistakes!

Seriously, buddy, you could have easily bowed out of this thread on page one without losing 'very' much face. I'm afraid you're way past that point in time. That's exactly what a couple of people are trying to say when they posted about 'If you have no clue, please don't try to give advice.'

I'll give you some advice... leave this thread be. You lost so bad here that nothing you can do could possibly turn it into a win, not even into a break-even.

[EAB]

Yay!! The uber-noob of the year tells us that Impaqt can't build characters!
And Mr. 'read and right english' speaks about spelling mistakes!

Seriously, buddy, you could have easily bowed out of this thread on page one without losing 'very' much face. I'm afraid you're way past that point in time. That's exactly what a couple of people are trying to say when they posted about 'If you have no clue, please don't try to give advice.'

I'll give you some advice... leave this thread be. You lost so bad here that nothing you can do could possibly turn it into a win, not even into a break-even.

Nyvn: Here are the feats I would take. This is with level 1 and 2 being fighter level and the rest Barb.

01 TWF Toughness
03 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh Oversized TWF
06 ITWF
09 Cleave
12 Power Attack
15 Improved Critical
18 GTWF

So what I am saying is that Oversized TWF adding to dps since you can fight with both in each hand with only -2 to hit. Toughness helps keep you alive along with a high CON.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Ever heard of something called freedom of speech? This is another example when someone is trying to deflect from the main topic. Not a good argument strategy.

Do you know what freedom of speach means? Clealry not.

As for the main topic, you don't appear to understand it either.

[moorewr]

You have to look at all the feats and say to yourself. WHich out of these feats could I run without?

if the answer is None of em. THen you've created a good build. If you can pick out a couple that are doing you little to no good, you wasted those extra feats and gimped the build.

You are wise, sensei.

(and patient, too, for putting up with the OP's antics this long).