Reincarnating as a Barbarian

[Buboe]

Hi guys, I've taken about a year away from DDO and been back for about a month. My character is a twf fighter with a splash of paladin for wand healing and fear/disease immunity but he's a 28 pt build and I did some stupid things when i first created him. I'm leveling up fairly quickly and reincarnation is becoming the 300 lb gorilla in the room.

Since he has a nice collection of dwarven axes and I want to become a serious dps'er my first thought was to create a twf dwarven barb. I've read a lot of the forum here and have seen a lot of good pointers but I have two main concerns I would like your opinion on. It seems going 20 barb would mean I had to heal only with pots. Is this a problem for most of you?

The other is I have a set of Stonemeld Armor with DR 5/-. I've worn it for quite a while even though I can achieve better AC with MFP (which I know isn't important on my new character- but was on my fighter)or get guards on another set of armor. On the other hand the new, to me at least, capstones make me hesitant to splash and I know As a barb I will be feat starved, espcially compared to what I'm used to. Would it, in your guys opinion, be worth working in a feat or splashing a level of fighter to get that DR or does it even stack with barbarian DR?

Thanks for your help in advance guys.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

On a Barb DO NOT SPLASH. Plus, DO NOT SPLASH. The only acceptable barb splash is 2 rogue for evasion, and that's only for a high dex barb and even then, its a question.

Healing with pots is a problem for a barb..basically they can't do it (well they can, but the potion consumption would be INSANE).

Your only options to a cleric/fvs behind you are silver flame pots (400 sf favor, but they have side effects) or UMD enough to wand whip (which you can't do while raged, which is most of the time). Clerics/FvS know this, they will take care of you.

Your best defense, go kill things quickly.

[EAB]

On a Barb DO NOT SPLASH. Plus, DO NOT SPLASH. The only acceptable barb splash is 2 rogue for evasion, and that's only for a high dex barb and even then, its a question.

Healing with pots is a problem for a barb..basically they can't do it (well they can, but the potion consumption would be INSANE).

Your only options to a cleric/fvs behind you are silver flame pots (400 sf favor, but they have side effects) or UMD enough to wand whip (which you can't do while raged, which is most of the time). Clerics/FvS know this, they will take care of you.

Your best defense, go kill things quickly.

Crack pot splashing 2 levels of Fighter for extra feats and +1 enchantment won't break ant melee class and will only help them with careful planning etc. I have seen several Barbs taking a splash in in fighter and rogue work out really well. Before you say some thing totally false, you should really do your research.

[Gunga]

You haven't gotten really great advice yet, so:

For a dwarven TWF Barb, there is a lot of synergy with 2 rogue splash.

The only caveat being the dwarven axes: not the highest dps weapon. You won't catch up to the dps of a khopesh wielding 18/2 barb/rog.

If you're ok with the DAs, than a 34 Pt Dwarven TWF 18 Barb / 2 Rog should be a lot of fun for ya.

Make sure you level up into umd, and you'll save yourself some serious pot bills. The weekend I drank 2000 CSW Pots while leveling a barb, I almost deleted him.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

You haven't gotten really great advice yet, so:

For a dwarven TWF Barb, there is a lot of synergy with 2 rogue splash.

The only caveat being the dwarven axes: not the highest dps weapon. You won't catch up to the dps of a khopesh wielding 18/2 barb/rog.

If you're ok with the DAs, than a 34 Pt Dwarven TWF 18 Barb / 2 Rog should be a lot of fun for ya.

Make sure you level up into umd, and you'll save yourself some serious pot bills. The weekend I drank 2000 CSW Pots while leveling a barb, I almost deleted him.

Actually with the recent trend of more and more enemies having fortification, i think DA's realy catch up to the kophesh (higher base damage on DA vs hight crit power on kophesh).
And dont forget the dwaven axe enhancements, i really think that for a dwarf DA's are the way to go.

[Gunga]

Actually with the recent trend of more and more enemies having fortification, i think DA's realy catch up to the kophesh (higher base damage on DA vs hight crit power on kophesh).
And dont forget the dwaven axe enhancements, i really think that for a dwarf DA's are the way to go.

Tru. I'm reincarnating my twf to Human 18/2 barb/rog khopeshes...more str less con.

Both have high DPS potential with good survivability.

Don't dump cha.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Crack pot splashing 2 levels of Fighter for extra feats and +1 enchantment won't break ant melee class and will only help them with careful planning etc. I have seen several Barbs taking a splash in in fighter and rogue work out really well. Before you say some thing totally false, you should really do your research.

I notice your Sept 09 join date...I assume you have been running with lots of high level barbs? Or are you talking about how it worked at L10?

2 levels of fighter cost you 1 DR, Mighty Rage, and the capstone. 2 Feats rarely give you the same value back.

As I said, rogue can work, for a high dex build, it has advantages and disadvantages that may or may not be worth the tradeoff, that's why its a question.

I never used the phrase "break", that's you. And I didn't say melee, I said "barb", other melees are not the same.

You should really learn to read what is said before you comment on it.

[Impaqt]

Crack pot splashing 2 levels of Fighter for extra feats and +1 enchantment won't break ant melee class and will only help them with careful planning etc. I have seen several Barbs taking a splash in in fighter and rogue work out really well. Before you say some thing totally false, you should really do your research.

Giving up the Capstone and final rage increase for 2 Feats and +1 to STR isnt a really good plan.

Theres no Critcal Feats a barb cannot already fir in withthe base 7 or 8 feats they get.

TWF or THF(3) PA, Cleave, Improved Crit are all thats needed. 7th can be used for Toughness or Stunning blow(Or both if your human)

The only thing most people consider worth trading 4 points of STR for is Evasion.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Giving up the Capstone and final rage increase for 2 Feats and +1 to STR isnt a really good plan.

Theres no Critcal Feats a barb cannot already fir in withthe base 7 or 8 feats they get.

TWF or THF(3) PA, Cleave, Improved Crit are all thats needed. 7th can be used for Toughness or Stunning blow(Or both if your human)

The only thing most people consider worth trading 4 points of STR for is Evasion.

He probably thinks you need to fit in skill focus:balance and diehard

[Gunga]

The only thing most people consider worth trading 4 points of STR for is Evasion.

4 pts? 'Splain.

[HeavenlyCloud]

4 pts? 'Splain.

2 capstone, 2 mighty rage.

[Impaqt]

4 pts? 'Splain.

L20 bumps base Barb rage from +6 to +8.
Capstone raises str another +2 for a Total of +4 STR.

(EDIT: I should read the rest of the responses before replaying. )

[Demoyn]

Crack pot splashing 2 levels of Fighter for extra feats and +1 enchantment won't break ant melee class and will only help them with careful planning etc. I have seen several Barbs taking a splash in in fighter and rogue work out really well. Before you say some thing totally false, you should really do your research.

I'll give my take on this, just in case you're of the mind to believe this guy that's only been playing for two months over the plethora of vets who disagree, but I wouldn't splash a barb for ANY reason, not even evasion. Also, I have both builds you're thinking of, and I can assure you that the pure barbarian is a better character for this point in the game (the same wasn't true six months ago, though).

[EAB]

I'll give my take on this, just in case you're of the mind to believe this guy that's only been playing for two months over the plethora of vets who disagree, but I wouldn't splash a barb for ANY reason, not even evasion. Also, I have both builds you're thinking of, and I can assure you that the pure barbarian is a better character for this point in the game (the same wasn't true six months ago, though).

Giving up the Capstone and final rage increase for 2 Feats and +1 to STR isnt a really good plan.

Theres no Critcal Feats a barb cannot already fir in withthe base 7 or 8 feats they get.

TWF or THF(3) PA, Cleave, Improved Crit are all thats needed. 7th can be used for Toughness or Stunning blow(Or both if your human)

The only thing most people consider worth trading 4 points of STR for is Evasion.

Both you and Impaqt keep saying that you wouldn't take a splash in multi class for a Barb. However, that is all you keep saying. Please explain why? Otherwise you guys sound like egocentric noobs who have not really dealt much with multi class builds. With that said since you can't backup your claims then both of you guys can role a pure Barb while the best of us can put some thought and planning into making a good build.

Here is an example build that I am talking about up until level 9. I have done some thing very simular with Drow Pally. Taking 2 levels of fighter and duel wielding khopeshe's. I didn't bother to pick all the enchantments but you get the idea. Please tell me why this would no work?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 9 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 7 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 9)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 9)
Balance               5                     7
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            3                     7
Jump                  3                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Barbarian)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical

[Xaearth]

Both you and Impaqt keep saying that you wouldn't take a splash in multi class for a Barb. However, that is all you keep saying. Please explain why? Otherwise you guys sound like egocentric noobs who have not really dealt much with multi class builds. With that said since you can't backup your claims then both of you guys can role a pure Barb while the best of us can put some thought and planning into making a good build.

Perhaps if you'd read the posts you quoted you'd see why, considering Impaqt fairly clearly explained it.

Here is an example build that I am talking about up until level 9. I have done some thing very simular with Drow Pally. Taking 2 levels of fighter and duel wielding khopeshe's. I didn't bother to pick all the enchantments but you get the idea. Please tell me why this would no work?

Power Critical on a barb? That's HAWT!

[Demoyn]

Both you and Impaqt keep saying that you wouldn't take a splash in multi class for a Barb. However, that is all you keep saying. Please explain why? Otherwise you guys sound like egocentric noobs who have not really dealt much with multi class builds. With that said since you can't backup your claims then both of you guys can role a pure Barb while the best of us can put some thought and planning into making a good build.

I don't know who this "us" is that you speak of, but if the BEST of you have to put that much thought and planning into sub-optimal builds then I feel sorry for you.

Here is an example build that I am talking about up until level 9. I have done some thing very simular with Drow Pally. Taking 2 levels of fighter and duel wielding khopeshe's. I didn't bother to pick all the enchantments but you get the idea. Please tell me why this would no work?

Oh, it'll work. It'll just be inferior and disappointing at level 20.

I'll make you a deal, though. If you can name me any two feats (that aren't already taken by the character) that are equal to or better than +1d6 damage to all evil creatures and another 2d6 to all evil undead and outsiders (the paladin capstone, which affects a vast majority of end-game content) then I'll concede that your fighter/paladin has a CHANCE to be better than my pure paladin. Similarly, the same applies to the barbarian (+4 strength, +2 constitution, +1 will saves, and increased glancing blows).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 9 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 7 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 9)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 9)
Balance               5                     7
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            3                     7
Jump                  3                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Barbarian)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical

I don't suppose this build is really all that bad (aside from power critical, which is perhaps the absolute worst feat in DDO - including eschew materials), but if you never plan a build past level 9 then you shouldn't even be in this discussion. This build at level 20 will be inferior to a 20 paladin.

Edit: Oh, and half of the enhancements suck, but that's an easy fix.

[Impaqt]

Both you and Impaqt keep saying that you wouldn't take a splash in multi class for a Barb. However, that is all you keep saying. Please explain why?

It was Explained. 4 Points of STR is not worth giving up for feats you dont need.

No one cares about Level 9. But even here, we see a build that is heading down the wrong path. No barb needs Oversize Two Weapon Fighting or Power Critical. Power Critical is laughable... OTWF is handy for about 3 levels.... and most can get by without it with no trouble at all.

Otherwise you guys sound like egocentric noobs who have not really dealt much with multi class builds.

I've designed, built, and play a multitude of Multiclass builds.

With that said since you can't backup your claims then both of you guys can role a pure Barb while the best of us can put some thought and planning into making a good build.

Actualy, I already have, you just dont like my reasoning. that doesnt mean I didnt explain it multiple times.

Here is an example build that I am talking about up until level 9. I have done some thing very simular with Drow Pally. Taking 2 levels of fighter and duel wielding khopeshe's. I didn't bother to pick all the enchantments but you get the idea. Please tell me why this would no work?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 9 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 7 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 9)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 9)
Balance               5                     7
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            3                     7
Jump                  3                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Barbarian)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical

Its not about "Not Working" The character is certainly playable. Its about inneficent use of your stat points and Feats. ABout having stuff in the build thats useless and missing things that pure barbs get.

[Hanam]

I'll give my take on this, just in case you're of the mind to believe this guy that's only been playing for two months over the plethora of vets who disagree, but I wouldn't splash a barb for ANY reason, not even evasion. Also, I have both builds you're thinking of, and I can assure you that the pure barbarian is a better character for this point in the game (the same wasn't true six months ago, though).

Either you haven't updated you signature or you have no idea what you are talking about. 14/3 fighter?

The key point in an 18/2 barb's life is level 20. That is when you get FB III.

All three splashes have pros and cons.

[Thrudh]

On a Barb DO NOT SPLASH. Plus, DO NOT SPLASH. The only acceptable barb splash is 2 rogue for evasion, and that's only for a high dex barb and even then, its a question.

I disagree with this sentiment... I would amend it to... On a Barb, DO NOT SPLASH MORE THAN 2 LEVELS... You HAVE to get 18 levels of barbarian for Frenzied Berzerker III, or you're a gimp barbarian... FB III is WAY too powerful... You cannot skip it... The devs made a big mistake here in my mind...

But the capstone and 19-20 barbarian can easily be skipped... It's only a net +4 to STR and +2 to CON.

That's pretty insignificant compared to what you can get... Two extra feats if you splash fighter (and some decent enhancements), evasion if you splash rogue (and occasional extra DPS from sneak attack)... Both give you Haste Boost, which more than makes up for the +3 damage you lose per swing as a THF barbarian...

We're talking doing 97% of max barbarian DPS and gaining a few things... That is not so terrible that you can shout in caps DO NOT SPLASH BARB...

Actually, technically, against most raid bosses, an 18/1/1 Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger would have better DPS than a pure barbarian... The ranger level would get you favored enemy: evil outsider (worth +3 damage per swing - so you're even with the pure barbarian against evil outsiders), PLUS you also get the Haste Boost and feat from the fighter level...

[EAB]

I disagree with this sentiment... I would amend it to... On a Barb, DO NOT SPLASH MORE THAN 2 LEVELS... You HAVE to get 18 levels of barbarian for Frenzied Berzerker III, or you're a gimp barbarian... FB III is WAY too powerful... You cannot skip it... The devs made a big mistake here in my mind...

But the capstone and 19-20 barbarian can easily be skipped... It's only a net +4 to STR and +2 to CON.

That's pretty insignificant compared to what you can get... Two extra feats if you splash fighter (and some decent enhancements), evasion if you splash rogue (and occasional extra DPS from sneak attack)... Both give you Haste Boost, which more than makes up for the +3 damage you lose per swing as a THF barbarian...

We're talking doing 97% of max barbarian DPS and gaining a few things... That is not so terrible that you can shout in caps DO NOT SPLASH BARB...

Actually, technically, against most raid bosses, an 18/1/1 Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger would have better DPS than a pure barbarian... The ranger level would get you favored enemy: evil outsider (worth +3 damage per swing - so you're even with the pure barbarian against evil outsiders), PLUS you also get the Haste Boost and feat from the fighter level...

OMG, this is what I have been saying the whole time. Good to know that someone else understands that you can multi class to make your Barb more powerful and that most of the time the capstone is not worth being a pure class and i this case pure Barb. Thank you, I rest my case.