For you new players. . .

[NXPlasmid]

I look at things in light... chances are the caster you pass the loot to today is going to be grouped with you using said item tomorow more often then the Barb comptemplating a future life of casting next week...

My thoughts exactly. Taking raid loot that someone will use now for your ultimate build destination that may or may not even happen, and if it does will probably be months or a year down the road, is kinda lame anyway.

[Aranticus]

if i'm giving away my loot, i'm going to give it to someone who will use it now. tomes included. roll on it, win it, eat it

[Grimtooth333]

if i'm giving away my loot, i'm going to give it to someone who will use it now. tomes included. roll on it, win it, eat it

Exactly... though sometimes you have to go back to a tavern for those +3's and +4's as they have a more full bodied flavor and need to be washed down with a fine blue vial or Ghallinda Distillate.

[Aranticus]

Exactly... though sometimes you have to go back to a tavern for those +3's and +4's as they have a more full bodied flavor and need to be washed down with a fine blue vial or Ghallinda Distillate.

just a tip hawke, why not update your sig to match the colors?

[adamkatt]

Rolling on an item (raid loot) to pass to your guildie means that any future runs your guild members are in with me means everyone in the raid will be following your example.

If i put something up for a roll it means i dont care what happenes to it im recalling out.... If someone wants to win a roll and pass it to a friend what does that matter....???

I would say there is more than one control freak in this thread...

[Mithran]

If i put something up for a roll it means i dont care what happenes to it im recalling out.... If someone wants to win a roll and pass it to a friend what does that matter....???

I would say there is more than one control freak in this thread...

It's not the issue of what's intended by the one who generously makes the item available for those who want it. It's the issue of people seeking an unfair advantage over those not in their guild in pursuing the acquisition of an item.

I guess I'm more familiar with the concept of fairness than you are.

[adamkatt]

It's not the issue of what's intended by the one who generously makes the item available for those who want it. It's the issue of people seeking an unfair advantage over those not in their guild in pursuing the acquisition of an item.

I guess I'm more familiar with the concept of fairness than you are.

If their is raid loot up for a roll and i want it i roll for it, If im not winner i dont hang around to whine about who is and what they do with it...

When i do get raid loot i dont want i dont sale it or any of that ****, i dont even care who rolls on it... You win the roll you get it otherwise all you are trying to do is control everyone as to what you think should happen... might as well throw the dice out in that senario completely, and just hand it to who you want to have it...

[Mithran]

If their is raid loot up for a roll and i want it i roll for it, If im not winner i dont hang around to whine about who is and what they do with it...

When i do get raid loot i dont want i dont sale it or any of that ****, i dont even care who rolls on it... You win the roll you get it otherwise all you are trying to do is control everyone as to what you think should happen... might as well throw the dice out in that senario completely, and just hand it to who you want to have it...

I think you've missed the point and that you've fallen back on the much easier logic of expressing frustration poorly through asterisks while avoiding the central argument.

What I don't want to see (in the raids I run) is the illustrated unfairness of people pooling their rolls to increase their chances of getting loot for themselves and their friends. If the item is awarded to you by the chest, by all means, do with it as you prefer. If someone wants to roll on loot for their own use, that's similarly fine. Rolling on an item so they'll win the ability to award it as they see fit is against what will be the stated terms of my raids, henceforth.

The assumption in pugs on Khyber (something about which you apparently have no concern) used to be that if you're rolling on it, you want it for your own use. For clearer illustration: Nine members of 1337 Lootstealers (for purposes of illustration only) find they're short three members of a full raid for Hound of Xoriat. Only one member of the guild is willing to play their Cleric (1), so they pug out a Cleric (2) spot, an Arcane spot and a Bard spot. The raid goes well (it's only on Normal, after all) and someone opens the raid chest. The Bard pulls Lorrik's (the shield).

Bard (in Raid Chat): Shield is up for roll

1337 LootstealersCleric (1)(in Guild Chat): Owe nose, I need that shield!

Bard (in Raid Chat): Roll for shield__________________

1337 LootstealersFighter (1) rolls 10 (d100)
1337 LootstealersFighter (2) rolls 14 (d100)
1337 LootstealersCleric (1) rolls 24 (d100)
1337 LootstealersBarbarian (1) rolls 54 (d100)
1337 LootstealersBarbarian (2) rolls 57 (d100)
1337 LootstealersBarbarian (3) rolls 46 (d100)
1337 LootstealersBarbarian (4) rolls 56 (d100)
1337 LootstealersBarbarian (5) rolls 93 (d100)
Cleric (2) rolls 97 (d100)
1337 LootstealersFighter (3) rolls 99 (d100)

The Wizard is new, so he doesn't roll. The Bard dutifully passes the Lorrik's shield to the Fighter (3) who won the roll, who immediately passes it to Cleric (1).

Now, it may be that you still don't understand the fundamental unfairness behind a process like this, but my OP was to let the general population on Khyber know that this kind of practice runs contrary to the prevailing spirit of pugs on our realm.

[adamkatt]

You worry too much about what others are doing with your loot... the ** was the word c r a p.. Hell of a word the get censored....

[Strakeln]

Adamkatt, if you still don't understand after Mithran's explanation, I suggest you start rolling on anything your friends/guildies need, then pass it to them if you win the roll and they don't. In a month, when you can't get into any decent raid groups, I think you'll have a better understanding.

[Strakeln]

You worry too much about what others are doing with your loot...

It's a matter of letting everyone who really wants the loot have a fair shot at it, instead of just the guy who brought the most friends.

[Mithran]

It's a matter of letting everyone who really wants the loot have a fair shot at it, instead of just the guy who brought the most friends.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Strakeln again.

[Grimtooth333]

just a tip hawke, why not update your sig to match the colors?

I'm far too lazy to do that... took me long enough to just to them red! lol

[Rabbi_Hordo]

Custom in my pugs is you roll if you intend to use it. Rolling for someone else is a pointed no-no and widely frowned upon. The reason for this is because the rolls are therefore limited and fair.

If there are six members of my guild in my pug and a couple from three other guilds, it's unfair for every member of my guild to roll on any item a member of my guild in the raid can use.

It certainly does not happen all the time (not on Khyber, at least).

There are a few guilds who make no secret that they run their raids in this manner. The Hand of the Black Tower is not one of them, and the best players from any guild know they can join our pugs and have a fair shot at any loot they are after.

Yah, Loreseekers frowns upon this as well and I will boot any member of my guild who is involved in that sort of thing. The only exception is a STATED BEFORE the raid intention that our guild is PUGging for a spot or two in a raid that we intend to try to get "X" item for a particular guildie. In that case, the PUG may keep the item if they pull it or whatever, but if one of our guildies pulls it it will be given to the player we ran the raid (or any quest for that matter) for.

[DoctorWhofan]

Here's my take:

If you get raid loot you do not want, I find it polite to put it up for roll, even if there are guildies want it. Why? THere are eleven other players that helped you get that loot, and not all of them (may be) are guildies. If no one wants it, then take it and sell it. I don't play favourites with guildies in the group. THe PuGs help me achieve the raid loot, so I feel they should get a shot at it.

Now, if it does up for roll, and you are rolling, I HIGHLY recommend NOT rolling for another player who is ALSO rolling. That means they get two chances and the others only get one.

Don't roll on multiple raid loot if you recieved/won one already.

If you want to sell the raid loot, don't announce you are asking for rolls, then take money.

If you take the raid loot that is yours to begin with, whether or not it is suitable for someone else, while I agree it is your loot, don't ask me to give you things out of my loot, nor get bent out of shape when others become upset about it. AND DON'T expect to get any raid loot via rolls (even if you won the roll) because you already got you raid loot.

If you dislike my distain for it, don't do my raids.


Finally, this thread shoulda been on Free Player General Discussion...Slumming in Khyber drama! hurts the eyes.

[Ghoste]

Happens all the time. I'm a firm believer in it's your loot, you can do with it what you wish. If you decide to pass it on to someone with the highest roll, it then becomes their loot to do with what they wish. But of course, it's still your decision whether or not to pass it over.

Rolling for someone else is basically giving that person 2 rolls.

So if it is indeed my loot, and i can indeed do with it as I want, and if what I want is to give all the people able to use it an equal shot, then that is not exactly letting me do what I want by doubling someone elses chances, now is it?

[BitkaCK2]

Rolling for someone else is basically giving that person 2 rolls.

So if it is indeed my loot, and i can indeed do with it as I want, and if what I want is to give all the people able to use it an equal shot, then that is not exactly letting me do what I want by doubling someone elses chances, now is it?

This logic is so beautiful I swear I almost got a little misty-eyed. Seriously, I'm not trolling, just saying kudos and well thought!

bitkaCK2

[DoctorWhofan]

Rolling for someone else is basically giving that person 2 rolls.

So if it is indeed my loot, and i can indeed do with it as I want, and if what I want is to give all the people able to use it an equal shot, then that is not exactly letting me do what I want by doubling someone elses chances, now is it?

I said it above him...ok not as elegant as the Toaster, but I did say it!

[Mithran]

I am particularly submissive

The Irish women in my family are such alphas.

[Emili]

The Irish women in my family are such alphas.

They also know where such is important and such is not.