Elf Ranger18/Monk 2 (TWF/Tempest 3)...viable?

[Failedlegend]

Hey I'm trying to make an build similar to Yarhovah sans the Rogue lvl and instead adding a 2nd Monk lvl as well as an Elf using Longswords instead of a Human using Khopesh that can pull off High DPS,Half-way decent AC and self/off-healing for a little extra survivability (Plus takes a little heat off the healer..if there is one).

Note: I have unlocked Head-start and 32pt. So this char will be starting at Lvl 4.

Here's the raw stats...hopefully this is :

32 pt. Elf Ranger

Str  16+4 (Lvl Boosts) +6 (Item) = 26
Dex 17+2 (Elf Dex) +2(Ranger Dex) +1(Lvl Boost) +6(item)= 28
Con 12+6(item) = 18
Int    8
Wis  15+1 (Monk Wis) +6(item) = 22
Cha  8


Possible Feats:

Favored Enemies: Undead, Evil Outsider, Constructs, Abberations
Monk Bonus Feats: Dodge, Mobility
Granted: Evasion,TWF, ITWF ,GTWF,Diehard,Hide in Plain Sight and a bunch of Ranged feats
Chosen: Toughness,Spring Attack,OTWF, Improved Critical:Slashing, Power Attack,Mental Toughness


Skills:

Concentration,Jump,Spot,Balance,UMD


Enhancements:

Ranger Dex (1,2),Elf Dex Line,Favored Damage Line,Tempest Line, Monk Wis 1
Ranger Devotion Line,Ranger Toughness Line and the rest I'll pick as I go

That's pretty much what I've got planned I just need some help with Feat/Lvl order (Ranger 1,Monk 2,Ranger X?) and some feedback on some of my choices would be nice too. Also If someone could calculate my AC that would be awesome (wanna compare to other ranger builds and my Mithral Full Plate THF Pally) Lastly is Deflect Arrows (Monk Feat) useful?...cause I'm one feat short...would something else be better?

Note: I've already spent hours searching through the forums and can't find a similar build...if you know of one please link it

[MichaelBerea]

Monk Bonus Feats: Dodge, Mobility
Feats Chosen: Toughness,Spring Attack,OTWF, Improved Critical:Slashing, Power Attack,Mental Toughness
Hey I'm trying to make an build similar to Yarhovah sans the Rogue lvl and instead adding a 2nd Monk lvl as well as an Elf using Longswords instead of a Human using Khopesh that can pull off High DPS,Half-way decent AC and self/off-healing for a little extra survivability (Plus takes a little heat off the healer..if there is one). Lastly is Deflect Arrows (Monk Feat) useful?...cause I'm one feat short...would something else be better

I have also been searching for a no-rogue (no-tome) version of the Exploiter to have fun with. I enjoyed reading your build and found it useful.

Regarding feats ... Deflect Arrows is pretty weak in DDO. I think Maximize with your extra feat would work well (see discussion on Yarhovah thread). It makes a big difference in the usefulness of your healing spells.

[Hadrian]

The reason that you have a hard time finding a well designed 18/2 ranger is because the rogue level offers a lot.

Can I ask what the reason is for not wanting to take a rogue level?

That single rogue level unlocks full ranks of UMD, Disable Device, and Open Lock. You may not choose to use all of these, but especially the UMD adds a lot to your character's abilities.

You get d6+3 sneak attack damage.

You get a 15% melee speed boost.

[jmonty]

The reason that you have a hard time finding a well designed 18/2 ranger is because the rogue level offers a lot.

Can I ask what the reason is for not wanting to take a rogue level?

That single rogue level unlocks full ranks of UMD, Disable Device, and Open Lock. You may not choose to use all of these, but especially the UMD adds a lot to your character's abilities.

You get d6+3 sneak attack damage.

You get a 15% melee speed boost.

sounds like that's the way to go

[Failedlegend]

Let compare the two options:

Rogue1/Monk1
1 Free Feat (One less than 2 Monk)
Access to Trapskills/slightly Higher UMD (I have better things to spend my skill points on)
Weak sneak attack (Which alot of monsters happen to be immune to)
15% speed boost for limited time


Monk 2
2 Free Feats
Meditation
Evasion (at 2 instead of 11)
Wis+1
Choice of Animal Path
Void Strike: Adds 1d4 Force Dmg to your unarmed strikes

IMHO an extra stat point,extra feat,evasion and Animal path trumps SA,Speed boost and trapskills

[Hadrian]

You're kind of downplaying the use of sneak attack and UMD, and trying to inflate the importance of some things on the monk side. Some of these things require you to use unarmed, which is not that likely on a tempest build.

With an animal path, you'll probably find +5 hp and +1 concentration to be the best option. It's not that impressive, and it's no more efficient than buying racial/class toughness feats.

1d4 force damage AND the loss of all tempest 3 bonuses on unarmed strikes does not seem worth it. You have to have two weapons equipped. Handwraps do not give you the tempest bonus.

Meditation? That doesn't really benefit you at all.

Having evasion early is nice, but once you're level 11 and have evasion, having it from another source doesn't matter at all. It's not really a long-term build decision, because the benefit disappears early on and only the downside is left.


Edit: As far as "having better things to spend skill points on" for UMD, it seems like your build already includes UMD. The trick is to take the rogue level later on, at the point where you can feed all of that level's skill points into UMD to cap it out. This way, you're not wasting extra points on UMD, but simply using them more efficiently by getting the full benefit of 1 point to 1 skill increase.

I know that people always advise you to take rogue first, but that is generally intended for a build that plans to take a wide range of skills. In your case, you have several skills that you've planned to take and are content with them. Here, it's a mistake to take rogue first and spread out all of those points into skills that you may not even want. It's far better to spend them more efficiently into a skill that is cross-class for ranger or monk, but not for rogue.

[Failedlegend]

You're kind of downplaying the use of sneak attack and UMD

I was downplaying sneak-attack...UMD is awesome...but sneak attack not so much (which is only 1D6 which isn't much...akin to a low lvl elemental effect) there's so many enemies in the game that are immune to SA that my rogue be game pretty much useless as a DPS toon(I wish it wasn't sneak attack+using a weapon their weak to+TWF is awesome when it works).

With an animal path, you'll probably find +5 hp and +1 concentration to be the best option. It's not that impressive, and it's no more efficient than buying racial/class toughness feats.

Either that or Way of the Clever Monkey which gives you bonus saves against traps + energy resistance (also +1 to haggle but thats not applicable in this build) ...thats six rogue enhancements Rogue Trap Lore 1 x 5 and Improved Trap sense for 1 AP (would cost a rogue 6 AP)...I'd call that pretty good

1d4 force damage AND the loss of all tempest 3 bonuses on unarmed strikes does not seem worth it. You have to have two weapons equipped. Handwraps do not give you the tempest bonus.

I was more referring to when you have to ditch your weapons to protect them ie.Rust Monsters...but yes it is only marginally useful (Note: While fists don't benefit from your tempest line they do benefit from your Str and the TWF line)

Meditation? That doesn't really benefit you at all.

This I didn't really mention much about because it is only a minor bonus (for use with Lesser Monk Stances/Abilities) but I wasn't gonna disclude it because it is something you get with monk 2 that you don't get with monk/rogue 1.

Having evasion early is nice, but once you're level 11 and have evasion, having it from another source doesn't matter at all. It's not really a long-term build decision, because the benefit disappears early on and only the downside is left.

Actually I find this VERY useful sure it essentially disappears at lvl 11 but it really helps you against enemy spellcasters and it helps you while your still learning the game and/or just don't know a dungeon also . Simply put Evasion 2-20 > Evasion 11-20. So yes its a bonus

As far as "having better things to spend skill points on" for UMD, it seems like your build already includes UMD. The trick is to take the rogue level later on, at the point where you can feed all of that level's skill points into UMD to cap it out. This way, you're not wasting extra points on UMD, but simply using them more efficiently by getting the full benefit of 1 point to 1 skill increase.

I was mostly referring to trapskills (let the rogue do the trapskills hes probably better at it anyway) and even without the rogue level I only lose a few points in UMD so its really not worth it.

Also now that I think of it Rogue have a D6 Hit Die & Monk Have a D8 so I'd gain more HP with 2 monk thank with 1monk/1rogue

Overall the only Bonuses I care about for the rogue Level is the higher UMD and the 15% speed boost but the extra feat,the evasion at lvl 2,wis+1 and the bonus of Monkey animal path far exceeds that and the unarmed damage for slimes,etc. is nice too.

Lastly I don't really want to argue about this I just need help making my Ranger18/Monk2.

[spifflove]

Let compare the two options:

Rogue1/Monk1
1 Free Feat (One less than 2 Monk)
Access to Trapskills/slightly Higher UMD (I have better things to spend my skill points on)
Weak sneak attack (Which alot of monsters happen to be immune to)
15% speed boost for limited time

You forgot intimidate.

Monk 2
2 Free Feats
Meditation
Evasion (at 2 instead of 11)
Wis+1
Choice of Animal Path
Void Strike: Adds 1d4 Force Dmg to your unarmed strikes

IMHO an extra stat point,extra feat,evasion and Animal path trumps SA,Speed boost and trapskills

one free feat vs having one as a level one monk
meditation
wis plus one
plus 1 bab but not the magic 20.
animal path worthless as you get energy resist anyway
void = nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

[Nyvn]

I'd recommend against extend, ranger buffs have long durations.