dwarf fighter reinc dilema

[chodelord]

My first char, a 28 point s&b 1 cleric/rest fighter is about to get to level 20 and I definitely want to reincarnate to fix screwed up skill and leveling choices.

The question is what is my build of choice? I know I want to use dwarven axes just because I collected a pile of them for every possible game situation on my way to 20. And I know I like fighter, particularly for dwarf because of the way the enhancements stack so well together.

I'm also pretty sure I want to do at least fighter 12 because that way I get to say "hulk smash" every time I pop the kensai boost.

The question I have for the community is what is the best option based on the listed parameters:

1. straight 20 fighter, knowing my will and reflex saves will suck and I'll never be able to get a decent AC and no self healing options and no evasion

2. fotm 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk, for good saves, ac, wand use, self buffs, etc

3. something more unusual like 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk or 12 fighter 8 barb

The higher levels of fighter really help scale the damage output and the increased crit range of kensai weapon 3 is particularly important for dwarven axes. But if I'm going 18 fighter then no 1/1 or 2 level splash makes up for the capstone loss.

So does anyone have any advice?

[Aeneas]

I know i personally will be going pure fighter as my 2nd reincarnation (currently level 12 of 1st). I think it's hard to justify splashing on a fighter. If you're going to already go 12 fighter then no 6 level splash is going to be better really than 3 more combat feats, an increased crit range, eventual access to the capstone, and the fighter hp's. And if you go 18 then the 2 level splash for whatever probably isn't better than the capstone and another combat feat. Aside from evasion it's rather surprising how much ground you can make up with 3 free feats.

Would it help if i told you the impact of having no evasion is really not all that big and gets further alleviated with nearly every module? Would it help if i told you that splashing for evasion on a fighter is probably a waste since your reflex save won't be high enough to save vs. traps that would kill you in one shot (aka elite traps with saves over 40 that do upwards of 900 damage)?

[SEMPER]

Would it help if i told you the impact of having no evasion is really not all that big and gets further alleviated with nearly every module? Would it help if i told you that splashing for evasion on a fighter is probably a waste since your reflex save won't be high enough to save vs. traps that would kill you in one shot (aka elite traps with saves over 40 that do upwards of 900 damage)?

as most know most hard and elite traps are doing more damage then they are suppose to be doing atm and who said u couldnt get your reflex save high enough ?

[chodelord]

the fotm 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk would add very respectable reflex save

I'm not worried about elite traps, I know they just kill you, its the caster aoe, fireball, flamestrike, acid ball, etc that evasion is really good for

2 monk levels give 1 combat feat each so really you would actually get an extra feat vs 2 fighter levels and assuming starting with 14 wis its +5 ac without tomes

also 6 ranger levels gives 2 necessary dual wielding feats for free and the equivalent of the fighter capstone so it really is a tradeoff of tempest 1 vs kensai 3


I guess I'm trying to justify straight fighter but the fotm mix really seems to be favored by the game mechanics, particularly in later instances

[maddmatt70]

My first char, a 28 point s&b 1 cleric/rest fighter is about to get to level 20 and I definitely want to reincarnate to fix screwed up skill and leveling choices.

The question is what is my build of choice? I know I want to use dwarven axes just because I collected a pile of them for every possible game situation on my way to 20. And I know I like fighter, particularly for dwarf because of the way the enhancements stack so well together.

I'm also pretty sure I want to do at least fighter 12 because that way I get to say "hulk smash" every time I pop the kensai boost.

The question I have for the community is what is the best option based on the listed parameters:

1. straight 20 fighter, knowing my will and reflex saves will suck and I'll never be able to get a decent AC and no self healing options and no evasion

2. fotm 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk, for good saves, ac, wand use, self buffs, etc

3. something more unusual like 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk or 12 fighter 8 barb

The higher levels of fighter really help scale the damage output and the increased crit range of kensai weapon 3 is particularly important for dwarven axes. But if I'm going 18 fighter then no 1/1 or 2 level splash makes up for the capstone loss.

So does anyone have any advice?

Actually a dwarven kensai fighter has great will saves vs. spells. You can get +8 to your will save just from enhancements, the dwarves natural save to spells, and Kensai 3. Then after it is just gear, but it is pretty easy to get mid 20s will save on a dwarven fighter vs. will spells. Similiarly especially if you are twf you will get good reflex saves vs. spells. By the way dwarves are working great in epic content with the dwarven tactics enhancement line so much for warforge and/or halfling superiority.

It is not worthwhile going for ac on a pure kensai fighter anymore. From reading your wishes it sounds like you want more of either a 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk or 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk. I am going to actually say if you care or play epic content that 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk is better then the 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk. The reasons are three-fold:
1: 7 rogue works well off of stunned mobs so expect a whole lot of SA damage,
2: 6 ranger works better in content where there is alot of the same monster type so you get two favored enemies in addition to the 10% attack speed. In the current content there are many monsters of different types.
3: A dwarf with 12 levels of fighter(Kensai) is an awesome stunner so you are constantly setting up your own sneak damage.

[chodelord]

Thanks for the advice, 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk would be interesting just because I've never seen another.

I'll have to run it through the old char planner because I think 7 rogue would be enough to get respectable trap skills if not max them out. Also im not sure about the feat placement but it would be interesting to map out.

So the choice of 7 rogue vs 1 monk/ranger

7 rogue {
4d6 + enhancements sneak damage
-- compendium says the avg is 23 damage which is really solid
subtle backstabbing 2 enhancement further increasing damage output
wrack construct 2
possible mechanic PrC and some resist enchantments if I went that path
possible trap skills
}

1 monk/6 ranger
1 (more) monk {
monk feat
monkey style 2 resists all energies
1 wis enhancement
}

6 ranger {
10% attack speed +2 ac from tempest
two weapon/improved two weapon feats
2 favored enemies and damage enhancements for them
ranger sprint enhancement
ram's might spell (and longstrider)
manyshot + bow str for respectable ranged damage
ranger wand use
}

interesting choices, I'll mock up rogue in char generator and see what happens

[Yajerman01]

Id like to add one more for the Ron's Character Creator. I plan on making this character but im currently working up a Reincarnate, but I like the overall dynamics of this build.

Dwarf
12/7/1 Ranger/Paladin/Monk Strength Based (Obviously)

He will be pushing hitpoints into the low 500's

All his saves will be in the mid 30's (41/41/35 at max)

He can be wearing the Icy Rainment and push standard AC up to 70 with raid buffs to 85

You spec out all his dwarven axe damage

Hell have fear immunity and disease immunity will have some low end LOH's spurts but also have Cure Moderates, etc, etc.

You can even mix up the enhancements, especially with the pally smites, etc, etc. and have some low end UMD capabilities.

it looks like a fun build but im reserving the build until i garner more items that will benefit this build, i.e. tomes, etc, etc.

if you would like more specifics on the build, drop me a line.

good luck in whatever decision you make.

[chodelord]

in playing with the char gen unfortunately a 12 fighter/ 7 rogue can get max trap skills, but only if that is what he focuses on exclusively, this means giving up maxing jump and balance

you would weave your leveling in 2 fighter levels for each rogue level to keep the trap skill progression reasonable

also the feats are tight but they appear to be do-able

your regular feat progression would be 7 and another 7 feats from the fighter levels

twf
imp twf
greater twf
oversized twf (not sure if necessary)
focus slash
spec slash
greater focus slash
greater spec slash
power attack
cleave
combat x
imp trip
stunning blow
toughness

I would probably get quickdraw over toughness just because I find myself using throwers a lot but I know most people swear by the extra hp, and most people dis cleave but aoe paralyze delivery is just too good to give up in my opinion

Stat wise I couldn't find points for wisdom so I think 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 barb would be a better way to go, just for the imp power attack barb enhancement and the fast movement

Between the rogue and fighter lines there are so many good enhancements that there is no room for the mechanic prereqs but I don't think it is that big a deal

The trade off is the AC, buffs and wand use of the tempest/monk kensai for 23 points of sneak attack damage and trap skills