Alternity Musings

[Mylon]

I really find this system to be interesting from a pure mechanical perspective. For those that don't know, Alternity, instead of using 1d20+bonus, uses more dice instead of that bonus. So a fighter with 1d20+4 to attack would instead roll 1d20+1d8.

I've been contemplating the consequences of such a change in basic mechanics. In DDO, for example, at high levels any AC less than 60 is about equal to AC in the 20s precisely because the bonus to the roll totally dwarfs the d20 result, so AC 50 and AC 20 versus a +50 attack bonus is still 95% chance of success. But if that +50 was instead a d20+d100, there's still the chance of rolling low on the d100 and AC 30 being more useful than AC 20.

The only downside is such a system would be a hassle to play using actual dice. For starters, d14s, d16s, d18s are all specialty dice. And adding 1d20+2d12 has significantly different results than 1d20+1d24. Even more granularity could be added to the system with odd-numbered dice, but these dice are also specialty dice (even if you're using a 1d6 with two of each 1-3 for a 1d3), and can only be simulated up to d5 with standard dice, though still at some difficulty.

Still, if these problems could be overcome, perhaps with a computer-aided die roller, I think it would give room for much more variation in power levels while sticking with a relatively simple (1d20+more) system like D&D. No more, "It's impossible to miss" scenarios. But I guess it still can put some target numbers out of a character's league.

What are your thoughts? Is there a game system you like that allows a wide variety of power levels?

[timberhick]

check out Earthdawn. They have a step system, where the step number is roughly equal to the average number rolled
I.E. step 6 is a d10

[Karavek]

I really find this system to be interesting from a pure mechanical perspective. For those that don't know, Alternity, instead of using 1d20+bonus, uses more dice instead of that bonus. So a fighter with 1d20+4 to attack would instead roll 1d20+1d8.

I've been contemplating the consequences of such a change in basic mechanics. In DDO, for example, at high levels any AC less than 60 is about equal to AC in the 20s precisely because the bonus to the roll totally dwarfs the d20 result, so AC 50 and AC 20 versus a +50 attack bonus is still 95% chance of success. But if that +50 was instead a d20+d100, there's still the chance of rolling low on the d100 and AC 30 being more useful than AC 20.

The only downside is such a system would be a hassle to play using actual dice. For starters, d14s, d16s, d18s are all specialty dice. And adding 1d20+2d12 has significantly different results than 1d20+1d24. Even more granularity could be added to the system with odd-numbered dice, but these dice are also specialty dice (even if you're using a 1d6 with two of each 1-3 for a 1d3), and can only be simulated up to d5 with standard dice, though still at some difficulty.

Still, if these problems could be overcome, perhaps with a computer-aided die roller, I think it would give room for much more variation in power levels while sticking with a relatively simple (1d20+more) system like D&D. No more, "It's impossible to miss" scenarios. But I guess it still can put some target numbers out of a character's league.

What are your thoughts? Is there a game system you like that allows a wide variety of power levels?

If your referring to the Alternity system I think you are, put out by WoC in the late 90s but kind of died as 3E came out and took all the spotlight, then Yeah I know the game well.

It was actually made to be semi compatible with 2nd Ed AD&D. There was conversion rules not only in its GM book but in several articles in Dragon. It doesnt work as well with 3E and later I have tried and 3E+ just takes limits off of stats and AC making the step system of Alternity not as viable.

Keep in mind in Altenity the Step modifier as a bonus capped at a single D20 and could go as low as 3D20. That would be like having a max of +10 but as much as a -30 penalty in D&D which are not to abd but in 3+ and later bonuses and penalties can be alot more extreme, Such as dragons in 2nd Ed had ACs maxing at around -12, even players could hit -10 AC, and THACO depending on your rules could either stop at 0 or go Lower. But in 3E and later we have dragons with ACs of 40-50 while players might have ABs only 20ish.

Alternity is a great system for those who are into a more gritty realistic live and die style of play as you dont gain alot of HP with each lvl. You can even play alternity without a class or lvl system if you want to and it still works amazingly well. It lends itself to future,modern, midevil, and fantasy styles of gameplay. and is driven purely by creative and flexible play. A DM never needs to spank players for being to tough because after every fight most are licking at least a few minor wounds which short of fantasy settings tend to take some time to mend and incur noticible penalties.

I still recall a campaign I ran, one playr was a feudal era samurai with a few latent psionic talents who was abducted by aliens( I used a converted mindflayer) and put into cryo stasis to be experimented on. he was rescued in the early 21st century by a group of greys, sasquatch, and human hoffman agents and allies. later he teamed up with a young freshly made vampire who had more power then common sense and was trulya player torn between abusing his power and trying to get along with the group and not ruin the game for all. Then there was the ancient egyptian alchemist who had been sealed away likea mummy for 3 thousand years who would be discovered and join the institute. those 3 had sucha diverse array of ability and origin that the RP was endless and fueled a number of adventures.

[Dawn_Falcon]

Honestly tracking the dice was a pain.

Does Earthdawn dynamically modify the dice you roll or?

[Ghoste]

The only downside is such a system would be a hassle to play using actual dice. For starters, d14s, d16s, d18s are all specialty dice. And adding 1d20+2d12 has significantly different results than 1d20+1d24. Even more granularity could be added to the system with odd-numbered dice, but these dice are also specialty dice (even if you're using a 1d6 with two of each 1-3 for a 1d3), and can only be simulated up to d5 with standard dice, though still at some difficulty.

With all the digital dice rollers out there, this isn't really that big a challenge.

[Armouredpriest]

Just a couple quick comments:

If memory services, Alternity was developed before TSR (original maker of D&D) was bought by WotC. It may have even been released before the TSR/WotC sale went through.

Also worth mentioning on the system itself, unlike D&D 3ed you wanted to roll low on your dice. a 1 on a d20 was an "extraordinary success". Penalties added to your roll, bonuses subtracted. Also compare to AD&D 2nd ed where you wanted to roll high when you attacked or rolled saving throws (can't remember of there were 6 or 7 different categories of saving throw, don't have a book in front of me), but wanted to roll low for proficiency checks (equivalent to skill checks in 3rd ed).

I'd also like to point out the original version of the Sovereign Stone game. the 2nd version of those rules was a d20 adaption, but in the first version your stats were not represented by a static score, but rather a specific die. So your stats could be like the following:

STR: d12
CON: d8
DEX: d8
INT: d6
WIS: d8
CHR: d4

then you'd add your bonuses for skills, abilities, equipment, ect...

It was actually pretty cool the way it worked.