Looking for Dwarven BattleCleric 15clr/3pali/2ftr build - who's got one?

[RuneStriker]

I play with a regular group of RL friends who have all decided to roll up a set of new characters with a large percentage being Dwarven. There are already two Ranger-Hybrid builds, a Barb and a Pally in the works so I think I'd like to try out a Battlecleric and I think I'll keep to the Dwarven theme that's building (plus I do have a couple of good Axes hanging around). This will definitely not be a "finesse" party and probably won't make it beyond level 14 but let's not give up hope just yet.

Researching on the forums I have seen a lot of love/hate discussions, but very little in actual BC builds that take the new cap into account (and most of those have been Human Khopesh users). I have seen a couple of people post comments about 15/3/2 Cleric/Pally/Fighter Dwarven BC builds that they have played and liked but I can find no posted builds of this type.

I have played around in the character builder but I don't have enough experience yet to know what would be a good class/level progression for such a character. I was thinking something along the lines of:

32 point build
STR 15 (+1 Fighter Enh + 6 Item = 22 final)
DEX 16 (+1 Tome for GTWF)
CON 14 (+2 Dwarven Con Enh + 6 Item = 22 final)
INT 8 (?)
WIS 16 (+5 level ups + 3 Cleric Enh + 6 Item +2 1750 Fav tome = 32 final)
CHA 6 (?)

HP ~ 300 base
SP ~ 1300 base

Level Progression (and feat):
1 ~ cleric (Toughness)
2 ~ fighter (TWF)
3 ~ pali (OTWF)
4 ~ pali
5-6 ~ cleric (Mental Toughness or Extend)
7 ~ pali
8 ~ fighter (ITWF)
9-20 ~ cleric (Emp/Heal, Max, GTWF, Quicken)

I have access to 32 point builds which helps, but am trying to stay away from counting on too many Tomes so the stat increases are based just on the 5 ability increases, Enhancements and the Fav granted tomes (and the TP I have from Favor thus far).

Am I way off base here? If so, does anyone have a link to a build like this, or for those that are playing one could you perhaps post a brief build outline and some notes on your play experiences that I could take a look over?

Input appreciated.

[TFPAQ]

I had a Dwarven Cleric15/Pally3/Fighter2 build that I True Reincarnated. He is/was heavily geared and had STR 30, WIS 30, HP just under 500 and approx. 1300-1400 SP (I can't remember exactly).

Looking at your build you have spent alot of feats on your two weapon fighting ability, but your strength is significantly lower than your wisdom.

I played all of the epic quests on lam and when it went live, and in my opinion, here is what I found.

Short of epic quests, a casting BC with high WIS was "better" than a more melee-focused BC.

On epic, the melee-focused BC provided more dps to the party, etc.

My guy could hold his own at the front line or from the back, but I'd look at a higher starting strength, or some lvl ups into str with the break out you have listed for your feats, or I would make sure I had max, empower and quicken if I was focusing more on a WIS-based caster BC. Dropping your WIS a couple points only drops you +1 in your blade barrier, etc.

If you are going more casting, then the 3 pally 2 fighter doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I were going more caster/WIS I'd go with a cleric18/monk2 for evasion, ac and better DC, etc.

[Valezra]

I went 18 Cleric / 2 Fighter for my dwarven Battle Cleric and I love it. Build is in my sig below.

[RuneStriker]

@Val - I looked at Valdorn, which is pretty much what I had seen before for the 18/2 split, but he's a bit too tome heavy for me. I'd rather be a bit under-uber than invest that much in tomes on a char I wasn't sure I would take to end game. How would he play without all those tomes?

Also, I think must have taken 10 INT and added a +2 Tome to that as well (instead of the 11 +1 you stated) as you are 1 Ability point shy of being able to meet those starting stats even with a 32 point build.


@TFPAQ - You were one of the posters I had seen mention the build so I'm glad you stopped in. So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the caster BC performed better in non-epic level situations but wasn't focused enough to keep up the DPS against the end-game? I'm assuming that's because the spell DC still isn't high enough compared to pure caster clerics, but the melee isn't high enough either to contribue to a significant degree since we're dabbling on both sides of the fence?

I do plan on having Max, Emp and Quicken by 18. The feat slot at 6 is really the debatable one as I could see Extend, Mental Toughness, and perhaps Power Attack in there depending on the needs of the build.

That provides me with a bit of a conundrum then as I don't see doing a lot of epic adventuring on this character since I'm new to the game and I'm sure I'll make enough mistakes along the way to want to give him a redo of sorts. So if I shift 4 of my level ups into STR that would bring me to 26 STR, 28 WIS by end. Do you think this would be enough to contribue in both areas on the non-epic scale? I could increase STR to 16 by reducing CON to 12, but I think that might put me in the danger zone for survivability.

Also, where do Exceptional Stat increases come from and what bonuses can they give? I'm assuming crafted gear but I've only ever seen +1 and +3 stat increases attributed to exceptional. Are they available in even increments as well?

[TFPAQ]

@Val


@TFPAQ - You were one of the posters I had seen mention the build so I'm glad you stopped in. So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the caster BC performed better in non-epic level situations but wasn't focused enough to keep up the DPS against the end-game? I'm assuming that's because the spell DC still isn't high enough compared to pure caster clerics, but the melee isn't high enough either to contribue to a significant degree since we're dabbling on both sides of the fence?

I do plan on having Max, Emp and Quicken by 18. The feat slot at 6 is really the debatable one as I could see Extend, Mental Toughness, and perhaps Power Attack in there depending on the needs of the build.

That provides me with a bit of a conundrum then as I don't see doing a lot of epic adventuring on this character since I'm new to the game and I'm sure I'll make enough mistakes along the way to want to give him a redo of sorts. So if I shift 4 of my level ups into STR that would bring me to 26 STR, 28 WIS by end. Do you think this would be enough to contribue in both areas on the non-epic scale? I could increase STR to 16 by reducing CON to 12, but I think that might put me in the danger zone for survivability.

If you take "epic" out of the equation, a caster-focused (i.e. maxed out WIS) BC (feats and enhancements in spell penetration, etc) generally is stronger in my opinion - as long as you have SP available. Looking at my build and how you would focus your build (if you go the 15/3/2 split), that is a lot of levels into fighter classes without a greater emphasis on your STR attribute.

If I were going caster-based, I'd be looking at a halfling with 2 lvls of monk for crazy AC and evasion. However, now that Favored Soul is available I've got a FvS/Monk blend that is going to be far superior to my 15/3/2 build.

Play what you enjoy but remember to play it for fun prior to end game (lvl 20). I think a mistake people make in posting is the "uber lvl 20 build" trap. My feeling is to maximize your char potential as much as possible by lvl 10-12 (now that Giant Hold doesn't offer the uber xp to push through) because you will be spending much more time from 10 -20 than you did from 1-10.

[RuneStriker]

Play what you enjoy but remember to play it for fun prior to end game (lvl 20).

Although I do spend a lot of time researching builds and asking questions, ultimately I can say that I play more for enjoyment than hardcore uberness. I will probably never be the first kid picked to be in the raid party, but that's OK with me. I'm having fun exploring the game and actually reading the content to pickup some of the back story <que chirping crickets here>. I'm not interested in speed leveling, and in fact end up holding most of my characters back in advancement until forced to level due to the exp cap in an attempt to complete all the quests available at level to see how each build handles the situations. It has given me a lot of insight into the way the different classes need to approach a given situation.

(now that Giant Hold doesn't offer the uber xp to push through)

Interested in this mention. Can you elaborate? Was the exp in Giant Hold nerfed from a previous version?

As a side note: it has been hinted to me that I might get Monk as an early xMas gift so maybe that will change the direction I look for in this character slightly. Still going with Dwarven Cleric as the main portion, but possibly with a Monk splash to replace fighter, pally, or both. Considering even working Cleric/Monk/Ranger as that seems to give more synergy than the Cleric/Pally/Fighter in terms of linked stats and would give me better starting skill points to keep balance and jump in the build at the early levels and still give me TWF and DAxes which I want to try and keep in the build somehow. I liked Pally for the immunities, but since I wasn't capitalizing on the saves or smites due to low CHA the Monk seems to perhaps offer more benefit in the long run.

[Valezra]

@Val - I looked at Valdorn, which is pretty much what I had seen before for the 18/2 split, but he's a bit too tome heavy for me. I'd rather be a bit under-uber than invest that much in tomes on a char I wasn't sure I would take to end game. How would he play without all those tomes?

Also, I think must have taken 10 INT and added a +2 Tome to that as well (instead of the 11 +1 you stated) as you are 1 Ability point shy of being able to meet those starting stats even with a 32 point build.

The tomes are absolutely not required to make him uber. Remember, it's a Cleric build... uber is already in the definition.

The base stats are listed as 16,15,12,11,16,6 <which you are correct are 1 point too high>. I'd have to look but I think I started con at 11 and simply took the other Dwarven Constitution Enhancement.

With equipment switches I can set myself up to solo stuff with a 51+ Self-buffed AC while TWF. Considering it's not a monk splash build that is very respectable AC for a TWF Cleric. In fact, without monk, it may be about the highest you can get with a Strength based TWF Cleric. Challenge? hehe

Here is his solo AC breakdown:

Base 10
Insight +4
Armor +15
Dex Bonus (+1 armor +2 Daggertooths + 3 Dwarven Enhancements) = +6
Deflection +5
Natural +3 (Barkskin Potion)
Armor Ritual +1
Chaosguard Bracers +2

Haste Clicky/Potion +1
Recitation +2
Shield Clicky +4

Total = 53 AC

Grind some Raids and you can get +3 from Chattering ring to put you at 56 AC.

Go with Racial Weapons and you can free up two feats to get Dodge and TWF Defense putting your total self-buffed TWF AC at 58.

in a Raid, stand next to a Paladin and get a real Barkskin from a Ranger and your AC can get up to at least 65 AC. Bard song it to 69.

Then on top of all of that you can put on a nice large shield and get your total Max AC up to 73 AC. Pretty good for just a lil ole DPS dwarf Cleric no?

[RuneStriker]

Remember, it's a Cleric build... uber is already in the definition.

Sounds like a great sig quote to me.

Pretty good for just a lil ole DPS dwarf Cleric no?

That it is and it gives me even more to consider.

I will definitely be going with DAxes which is the whole reason for looking into a martial class splash to begin with. And if I'm going to have one axe, I might as well have a pair so I don't look all unbalanced and sheit. Plus I just think Dorfs just look natural with them.

Now of only Turbine gave them the same love with regard to Hammers... although I guess that would cut into the enhancements just a bit too much for the sake of racial flavor...

[Riggs]

3 paladin level are a real waste now, once upon a time they were more useful, and 5 levels of non-cleric means 5 levels longer to get raise dead,cometfall, blade barrier....very harsh penalty for the sake of +2 ac and saves. (Or no ac with another pally around).

A battle cleric, melee, needs at least 1 level of something to get real weapons. While there is no prestige classes right now, assume they will be coming and anything other than 18/2 is going to maybe be a real minus as well. Think if one more level anything is worth losing a tier 3 set of enahncements....

That said, a dwarf 18/2 monk is maybe not super if your planning on axes, but it can still work. The other good option is 18/2 ftr. I would maybe reccomend, to be the most self sufficient;

17 cleric/2 monk/1 fighter. Three bonus feats, evasion (tons of area damage at high levels that you avoid needing to heal), and depending on gear a good enough ac to avoid a lot of things outside of some bosses and elite stuff.

The downside is whatever prestige comes out may make that 1 ftr level seems like a total waste, or else maybe the evasion. but for existing content, a 17/2/1 build will kick a lot of booty, survive a lot of incoming attacks, and still be able to be a pretty good caster and a good melee.

[RuneStriker]

I will say the 17/2/1 Cleric/Monk/Something splash does have my interest now that I think I might be getting Monk. My previous leanings did not consider anything dealing with Monk because I did not have it.

I wish Cleric had access to martial weapons so I didn't have to splash one level of fighter just for the DAxe proficiency since fighter basically brings almost nothing else to the table except the bonus feat (which I could get with another level of Monk for a 17/3 split). If Monk didn't offer evasion (or if I could chose it as a Monk bonus feat instead of a granted one) I'd go 2Ranger/1Monk instead as two Ranger gives me so much more to work with.

[steloro]

2 level of paladin,2 level of monk and 16 level of cleric is a viable path?or a waste of time?

[Riggs]

2 level of paladin,2 level of monk and 16 level of cleric is a viable path?or a waste of time?

18/2 monk is far better than 16/2/2...unless you really, really want the martial weapons - but are martial weapons worth losing level 9 spells over?

Remember, and also for above with dwarf axes - you can always blow a feat on the one weapon and stay 18/2.