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  1. #1
    Community Member rezo's Avatar
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    Question Best DPS in the game at lvl 20???

    What is the best "DPS" at lvl 20??? Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps??? Thoughts????
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    No one that throws together a bunch of numbers and calls it fact is going to give you and real accurate answer, there's too many variables and it's all biased towards there own personal outlooks on how it should be, not how it is. Numbers are too easy to manipulate.
    So sad but true.

  2. #2
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    What is the best "DPS" at lvl 20??? Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps??? Thoughts????
    Situational or Consistent?

    Situational: Ravager

    Consistent: FB TWF pure.

    But the all around best has to be the hafling barbarian monk, earth stance, who uses lumps of coal (Its hard to get those lumps of coal, if you farm copper coins all the time, you should have enough to get you through the year!!!)
    THELANIS - Chief Scientist of DARPA
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  3. #3
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    Well, first you'll have to True Reincarnate a dozen times...so just start rolling and leveling through all the melee classes, and then in a few years you can figure out what the best class is to end up on at 20.

  4. #4
    Community Member rezo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydra_ex View Post
    Situational or Consistent?

    Situational: Ravager

    Consistent: FB TWF pure.
    There are no Situational or Consistent in "DPS"ing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    No one that throws together a bunch of numbers and calls it fact is going to give you and real accurate answer, there's too many variables and it's all biased towards there own personal outlooks on how it should be, not how it is. Numbers are too easy to manipulate.
    So sad but true.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    There are no Situational or Consistent in "DPS"ing.


    umm actually there is quite a bit in situational or consistent. A wizard's firewall for instance would deal double damage on fire weak creatures and none on fire immune. So in some situations the wizard is the best DPS in the game, in others, completely incapable of dealing damage.

    Same goes for rogues, in the event the tank holds agro, an assassin deals pretty much the best DPS in the game. Against an undead, well he's pretty much just a bard without the ability to sing or cast spells without a wand.

  6. #6
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    There are no Situational or Consistent in "DPS"ing.
    Yes there is. It all depends on your interval which you're measuring.

    For instance, against a single trash Orthon (estimated time to kill: 2-8 seconds; full group), a barbarian rogue can keep up haste boost and rage. So, take the damage dealt, and divide it by how long it took to kill.

    Even on harder monsters, like Harry, the same thing applies.

    However, increase your time interval to a long quest with a lot of space in between shrines, and the rogue's DPS starts to fall dramatically, since it can no longer keep up haste boosts, while the FB's continues to remain constant, irrespective of how much time has gone by (we can assume that the barbarian's rages last long enough).

    In addition, we have certain situations where certain effects (fortification, Favored Enemy) increase/decrease DPS. The best DPS against a 100% foritication probably is an 18 rgr/2 barbarian with that as its FE. Against something without 100% fort, the DPS of that build starts to fall behind others (although it still is good DPS, and has its strengths)
    Last edited by hydra_ex; 12-03-2009 at 05:44 PM.
    THELANIS - Chief Scientist of DARPA
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    There are no Situational or Consistent in "DPS"ing.
    Your join date suggests that you should know better. Who does more damage: a rogue against undead, or a frenzied berserker barbarian? Who does more damage: a rogue against Harry, or a frenzied berserker barbarian?

    Maybe you should just do a search for Gfunk's relative two-weapon fighting DPS thread. I think that would be more help than anything we could say.

  8. #8
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    Please tell me the monks with handwraps options was a joke.

  9. #9
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    rezo, there is no single answer to your question.

    Makes about as much sense as asking, what is the best spell in the game.

    The comment about there being "no situational or consistent in DPS'ing" indicates a lack of willingness to consider many of the factors other have mentioned.

    For about 1 second, a Paladin with Huge Smite enhancements will Blow away the "DPS" of about any other melee in the game. So they are the best.

    For 20 seconds, it can be hard to beat the NET DPS of a level 20 Ranger with a good bow. Since they can be dealing that damage to a half dozen mobs at once.

    The list goes on.

    So, I suspect the Halfling Monk with Coal chunks is about as good an answer as you are looking for.
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  10. #10
    Community Member ArloOne's Avatar
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    Wink Got it..

    Dual festivus twig wielding halfling bard/pally!
    Dravun , Yocoba, Daivik, and so many more.
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    Do not drink the awesome-sauce......One must BE the awesome-sauce.

  11. #11
    Community Member rezo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    What is the best "DPS" at lvl 20??? Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps??? Thoughts????
    Can anyone read my question??? I think not.

    Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps???

    I'm not talking about anything else. Please try to read it may help sometimes.

    1.) Temps. III TWF fightering with greensteel weapons or,

    2.) Monks with handwraps???

    At lvl 20.

    PS....
    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    There are no Situational or Consistent in "DPS"ing.
    Joking, lol.
    Last edited by rezo; 12-05-2009 at 03:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    No one that throws together a bunch of numbers and calls it fact is going to give you and real accurate answer, there's too many variables and it's all biased towards there own personal outlooks on how it should be, not how it is. Numbers are too easy to manipulate.
    So sad but true.

  12. #12
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    I like the Tempest III TWF fighterer, myself.

    Classic.

  13. #13
    Community Member Tallyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    Can anyone read my question??? I think not.

    Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps???

    I'm not talking about anything else. Please try to read it may help sometimes.

    1.) Temps. III TWF fightering with greensteel weapons or,

    2.) Monks with handwraps???

    At lvl 20.
    It would be better to state the question as follows:

    What is better at 20 DPS-wise: Tempest III with Greensteel or Monks with Handwraps?

    You split what was intended as a comparison between two classes, into two sentences, thus causing the confusion. Thus the people answered your first question, while not touching on the question in your second sentence.


    To answer you, however, I believe a Tempest III Ranger (preferably Strength based, and preferable Green Steel Khopeshes) would do better DPS wise, especially against favored enemies.

  14. #14
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    A well-geared DPS monk with bursting rings and greater bane handwraps will trash the Tempest III ranger with similar loot and greensteels and favored enemies - and do so by a significant difference - although the long-time consensus of ranger superiority makes it hard to convince people around here.

    However, dual khopesh FB III warforged and some of the Kensei builds around here along with a few of the really nice multiclasses proposed would eclipse the monk in many situations.
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  15. #15
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    A monk with handwraps will have a 19-20 crit range, x2, if he picks up improved crit bludgeon. Even with the 2d10 damage from fists, and the elemental damage, he's still not going to out DPS tempest with GS blades.

    Now if they add in GS handwraps that improve the crit range, or multiplier, we might have a different story.

  16. #16
    Community Member Tallyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    A well-geared DPS monk with bursting rings and greater bane handwraps will trash the Tempest III ranger with similar loot and greensteels and favored enemies - and do so by a significant difference - although the long-time consensus of ranger superiority makes it hard to convince people around here.

    However, dual khopesh FB III warforged and some of the Kensei builds around here along with a few of the really nice multiclasses proposed would eclipse the monk in many situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cedwin View Post
    A monk with handwraps will have a 19-20 crit range, x2, if he picks up improved crit bludgeon. Even with the 2d10 damage from fists, and the elemental damage, he's still not going to out DPS tempest with GS blades.

    Now if they add in GS handwraps that improve the crit range, or multiplier, we might have a different story.

    I think we may both be wrong (and right) here. Against 0% Fort monsters, I think the Ranger will definitely win this battle (especially against FE). However, the higher the Fortification gets, the more it starts to lean towards the monk for having higher base damage. I would say monk definitely wins at 100% fort. Not sure at what point the scale would tip even though.


    Also to Anthios' point, if DR is not a factor, the Ranger can dual wield Holy Burst of Greater Bane weapons as well. I know this wont necessarily be available all the time, but I think it does help negate some (definitely not all) of the point you make about greater bane handwraps and holy burst on rings.
    Last edited by Tallyn; 12-04-2009 at 02:15 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cedwin View Post
    A monk with handwraps will have a 19-20 crit range, x2, if he picks up improved crit bludgeon. Even with the 2d10 damage from fists, and the elemental damage, he's still not going to out DPS tempest with GS blades.

    Now if they add in GS handwraps that improve the crit range, or multiplier, we might have a different story.
    That's straight up incorrect. All of the extra damage from the double or triple bursts, 2d10 wraps, insane attack speed, and sneak attacks (on a halfling monk) will beat the tempest by about 10% DPS on crittable mobs. That is before the punches come into play, and they can account for another margin of DPS. I don't mean this as a put down, but maybe you haven't run with a good candidate - they're few and far between. The difference between monks today and the way they were a few months ago is nothing short of stunning. I don't have the numbers in front of me today, but ranger DPS tends to top off around 330-370 at the very very high end, while monks break 400 without punches (similar to a typical Frenzied Berzeker, with less HP but improved evasion). Now, keep in mind that a dual khopesh WF FB can reach above 470 with the best equipment (that number is WF Barb 18/Rog 2, no capstone).

    Another thing not mentioned is a KotC III dual wielder on an evil outsider, which beats out all of the above.

    One thing to keep in mind, though, is that DPS is great but not necessarily the only important thing going on. Rangers have manyshot, self-healing, evasion, great buffs, and much more party support than either monks or barbarians, and can often fit in things like UMD or trapsmithing abilities a little easier. It's not like they lost their place just because monks are bringing a bit more to the table than they used to.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Tallyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    That's straight up incorrect. All of the extra damage from the double or triple bursts, 2d10 wraps, insane attack speed, and sneak attacks (on a halfling monk) will beat the tempest by about 10% DPS on crittable mobs. That is before the punches come into play, and they can account for another margin of DPS. I don't mean this as a put down, but maybe you haven't run with a good candidate - they're few and far between. The difference between monks today and the way they were a few months ago is nothing short of stunning. I don't have the numbers in front of me today, but ranger DPS tends to top off around 330-370 at the very very high end, while monks break 400 without punches (similar to a typical Frenzied Berzeker, with less HP but improved evasion). Now, keep in mind that a dual khopesh WF FB can reach above 470 with the best equipment (that number is WF Barb 18/Rog 2, no capstone).

    Another thing not mentioned is a KotC III dual wielder on an evil outsider, which beats out all of the above.

    One thing to keep in mind, though, is that DPS is great but not necessarily the only important thing going on. Rangers have manyshot, self-healing, evasion, great buffs, and much more party support than either monks or barbarians, and can often fit in things like UMD or trapsmithing abilities a little easier. It's not like they lost their place just because monks are bringing a bit more to the table than they used to.
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174906

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunk View Post
    466.8 … human , ranger 18 / monk 1 / rogue 1, w/ khopeshes , vs. favored , with sneak attack , haste boost +15% (exploiter) http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687 *
    I'm not saying MonK DPS isn't good, but I do think you're underestimating Rangers high end DPS.
    Last edited by Tallyn; 12-04-2009 at 02:23 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    Can anyone read my question??? I think not.

    Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps???

    I'm not talking about anything else. Please try to read it may help sometimes.

    1.) Temps. III TWF fightering with greensteel weapons or,

    2.) Monks with handwraps???

    At lvl 20.
    Even narrowing it down to those two choices (something that was NOT clear), doesn't make for an easy answer...

    It still can be situational... Against favored enemy? or not?

  20. #20
    Founder binnsr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    What is the best "DPS" at lvl 20??? Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps??? Thoughts????
    Can anyone read my question??? I think not.

    Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps???

    I'm not talking about anything else. Please try to read it may help sometimes.

    1.) Temps. III TWF fightering with greensteel weapons or,

    2.) Monks with handwraps???

    At lvl 20.


    Actually, you asked two distinct questions
    1) What is the best "DPS" at lvl 20?
    and
    2) [Is it] Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps?

    The answer to the first, you've had answered by a couple of folks.
    The answer to the second is inferred from the answer for the first.

    Asking the right question works wonders sometimes.
    -=]ArchAngels[=-

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