Best DPS in the game at lvl 20???

[Junts]

so 18/2?

You think 5, 20 second +15% boosts with a 10 second downtime compares to a static +10%? Really?

Should I mention the fighter 20 has a static 10% with 7 +35% boosts? that the ranger gets a whole extra offhand attack (5 in every time everyone else does 4), etc, etc.

Barb dps is great, and it applies to everything, but when you put a kotc3 pally in ideal circumstances, it tends to win by .. well, like 1% or something, its negligible. Then again, nothing else gets within 20 or so dps of either.

[Gunga]

You think 5, 20 second +15% boosts with a 10 second downtime compares to a static +10%? Really?

Should I mention the fighter 20 has a static 10% with 7 +35% boosts? that the ranger gets a whole extra offhand attack (5 in every time everyone else does 4), etc, etc.

Barb dps is great, and it applies to everything, but when you put a kotc3 pally in ideal circumstances, it tends to win by .. well, like 1% or something, its negligible. Then again, nothing else gets within 20 or so dps of either.

After you had the above argument with yourself, are you saying that even though there is just a slight increase in dps with the 18/2 build, that it's enough to cover the difference in the negligible 1%? MAYBE, just for EO bosses, pali's and FB III barb/2 rogues have comparable dps?

[Junts]

After you had the above argument with yourself, are you saying that even though there is just a slight increase in dps with the 18/2 build, that it's enough to cover the difference in the negligible 1%? MAYBE, just for EO bosses, pali's and FB III barb/2 rogues have comparable dps?

You've gotta keep in mind that by going /2 rogue, the barb also gives up 4 strength (capstone, mighty rage), too. But yes, they are quite comparable .. which is what I said.

edit: /2 rogue also gives up about 1 attack per hand per minute, due to the 19 instead of 20 bab, though that's not crippling, if yo uwant to get into very small benefits and losses, that's the cost of those haste boosts. While the net is a benefit, they're not free.

[Junts]

You think 5, 20 second +15% boosts with a 10 second downtime compares to a static +10%? Really?

Should I mention the fighter 20 has a static 10% with 7 +35% boosts? that the ranger gets a whole extra offhand attack (5 in every time everyone else does 4), etc, etc.

Barb dps is great, and it applies to everything, but when you put a kotc3 pally in ideal circumstances, it tends to win by .. well, like 1% or something, its negligible. Then again, nothing else gets within 20 or so dps of either.

This is all clearly ****, nothing using two weapons is the best dps on DDO. It doesn't have enough strength to not get knocked down by air elementals and Lailat, and having two weapons makes you have too little hp to get healed by 4 people.

THF glancing blows do way more damage than offhand attacks.

Consider this my first entry in the 'boilerplate response' category, as promised a few days ago.

[Gunga]

You've gotta keep in mind that by going /2 rogue, the barb also gives up 4 strength (capstone, mighty rage), too. But yes, they are quite comparable .. which is what I said.

Interesting.

Do you think your mom can beat up my mom? Is that what you were implying?

Outta here...need to figure out who I'm TRing and to what. I'll be over on ghallanda at some point this weekend..maybe we chat.

Lates

[Junts]

Interesting.

Do you think your mom can beat up my mom? Is that what you were implying?

Outta here...need to figure out who I'm TRing and to what. I'll be over on ghallanda at some point this weekend..maybe we chat.

Lates

I just added something to that post; in reality, which is ahead will almost always depend more on the player's equipment than anything else, since those calculations tend to assume ideal circumstances.

It's also worth mentioning that increasing mob fort (like vs raid bosses) benefits paladin becuase it's less dependent on criticals for its damage ..

The distinction at that point is hardly worth trying to make; my point all the way was 'these two things do the most damage', not that there's a significant gap between either at the top. There is a large gap between thsoe two things and everything else, though.

[hermespan]

What is the best "DPS" at lvl 20??? Temps III twf with greensteel or monks with handwraps??? Thoughts????

Technically spellcasters do the most DPS (regardless of what killcount says), since you can drop a firewall(s) or blade barrier(s) and be damaging 40 things at once. Melee usually sit there and cherry pick kills (intentionally or otherwise) since a single hit from a high damage sword can finish something off that was 95% killed by a caster's AOE already.

Single target dps, area dps (such as THW), AOE, or what? Is the mob aggroed on you or not (makes a huge difference with sneak attack)?

"best DPS" is very subjective and open to interpretation.

Maybe "best single target melee dps" would get you a better answer.

[Razcar]

[...] A full 19 rogue has 10d6 sneak attack, which will apply about half the time. A 20 paladin kotc with set and capstone has 10d6 worth of damage that applies on every single hit! ..before weapon effects. It also has 10% attack speed, +11 to damage (divine favor + divine might 4) and an extra 360d6 worth of light damage per minute from divine sacrifice 3. [...]

Sorry to nitpick, but a lvl 19 halfling rogue (the race for maxing out DPS on a rogue) would have 10d6+20 for each attack - without Tharnes (which the pally would be wearing as well, even though he would situationally get less out of them due to aggro). That's 75% that you just left out.

And then you list all kind of paladin combat perks - though none for rogues. Not saying that either one is better, but your comparison there is a little one-sided...

[Ghaldar]

Technically spellcasters do the most DPS (regardless of what killcount says), since you can drop a firewall(s) or blade barrier(s) and be damaging 40 things at once. Melee usually sit there and cherry pick kills (intentionally or otherwise) since a single hit from a high damage sword can finish something off that was 95% killed by a caster's AOE already.

Single target dps, area dps (such as THW), AOE, or what? Is the mob aggroed on you or not (makes a huge difference with sneak attack)?

"best DPS" is very subjective and open to interpretation.

Maybe "best single target melee dps" would get you a better answer.

I am pondering sitting at door cleave, supreme cleave over and over... If that would out damage a FW.

But you are right the casters provide best DPS spell in the game : Haste. They also serve to conserve the clerics healing mana with displacement and stoneskin. Pretty good at otto's as well.

[Quikster]

Hmm, too bad I don't have the knowledge necessary to update that list. Would be willing to do it hehe.

Unfortunately I think G-Funk started a new job this month. Im pretty sure atm he doesnt have the time to update it. Hes barely even logging in the past week or two. That or hes addicted to Dragon Age

[Valezra]

... that the ranger gets a whole extra offhand attack (5 in every time everyone else does 4), etc, etc.

I've seen this tossed around a bit and I think some people may misunderstand it. The STWF Ranger essentially gets 11 attacks in the same time a GTWF person gets 10. Add in the Tempest 10% speed boost and a Tempest III does about ~21% more DPS than a non tempest counterpart but only 10% more than a 6 Ranger tempest splash (all other factors remaining equal of course).

Since most encounters are short and shrines are plenty Fighter and Rogue haste boosts give plenty of time to count and should be considered for comparison sakes.

Frenzied Berserkers have increased crit multipliers which must be considered... Rogues have sneak attack which benefits higher attack rates... etc.

The only way to comprehensively compare builds is to calculate them, present your assumptions, and be sure that the formula used are accurate. The problem we are currently in right now is that it seems no one is sure of what the new formulae are.

I just made a FB II / Rogue / Fighter mix... using the old method I calculated her DPS at 563 while boosted. Valemma
Even IF GTWF builds have lost about 10% since mod 9 that still puts her boosted DPS at about 507 in today's end game. The point is... you can't say Tempest III is better or worse than a Monk which is better or worse than a FB III.... there is just way too many other things to consider.

PS - I'll take skilled players over a bunch of top DPS builds any day. Focus on being a good player and try not to worry about the numbers too much.

Val