Fix knockdown effects.

[Kromize]

As it currently is, we have to make a strength/dexterity check to prevent us from being knocked down, and then make a balance check to see if we stand up. Now, I'm not gonna say you have it totally backwards, just, almost completely backwards...

If somebody tries to knock you down, you need to keep your balance to keep from falling/being knocked down, of course, your strength and dexterity helps with that, but that's why there's a dexterity modifier on the balance skill right? So, make that add both your strength and dexterity modifier to your balance. Then make it so your balance determines if you get knocked down or not, and finally, make it a dexterity check to see if you can get back up, or, for the better, more sensible, make it so you always get back up within a set time. Because, let's face it, the only time your not going to get back up when your tripped/knocked down, is if you are either dead, or disoriented from being knocked down. At which point, your dexterity could help you get reorientated to get back up.

Also, the only times I can see where your balance would be useless to see if you got knocked down is if you get knocked off of your feet, but you can replicate that via super high save, which a super high balance would work against, because you can land back on your feet.

So:
-balance check to see if you fall down.
-get back up after 1-2 seconds
-unless it's an especially disorientating fall(special knockdown effect, dexterity check to prevent disorientation?), then it takes a dexterity check to reorient, as well as a timer for the especially clumsy.

[Letrii]

Are you talking about as part of overrun action?

[donfilibuster]

Standing up is supposedly an action not a check, balance is for not falling down.
The downside is that you get attacked while getting up rather than not being able to stand.
Furthermore you can tumble while prone to avoid this attack, like rolling to the side.
Unless you need a balance check to stay standing, as may be with the grease spell.

[Kromize]

Are you talking about as part of overrun action?

I'm talking about ANY knockdown effect. Such as a dog knocking you down, the giants stomp, or even the over run effect. All the same, if you can keep your balance you shouldn't be knocked down.

[Missing_Minds]

I hope you don't want it too badly, because you won't get it.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/spe...tacks.htm#trip

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/spe...ks.htm#overrun

But I do wish they'd fix the cheat of the air elementals. They really should be required to hit you as they never come out of their whirlwind form.

[Shade]

Yea not gonna happen.

Because years ago this idea... was actually how they used to work. But it never made any sense and wasn't true to the pnp rules. So it was changed to be more correct - how it is now.

[Missing_Minds]

Yea not gonna happen.

Because years ago this idea... was actually how they used to work. But it never made any sense and wasn't true to the pnp rules. So it was changed to be more correct - how it is now.

Actually, it used to be a reflex save, not a balance check as I recall. It was always balance to get back up though.

[Letrii]

One thing that doesn't make sense is why balance check to stand up, unless in grease?

[Missing_Minds]

One thing that doesn't make sense is why balance check to stand up, unless in grease?

They had to choose something, and regaining your balance is a logical choice. There are no move actions in DDO.

[Letrii]

You are down for a few seconds, that should balance out for the move action.

[Missing_Minds]

You are down for a few seconds, that should balance out for the move action.

You get the balance check ever 2 seconds.
The "move" action that is the duration of a trip is 6. (or.. 8? if it is improved trip. I forget the exact time that one lasts.)

[Kromize]

wasn't true to the pnp rules. So it was changed to be more correct - how it is now.

I don't care if it's true to the broken PnP rules. They need to fix it. This is DDO, not DnD 3.5, or 4, not even close. It's an MMO, not a PnP. It's real time, not move by move. And furthermore, it's now, not then. The rules of DnD are flawed, and need to be fixed, not imitated. Learn from past mistakes, don't copy them. Understand what I'm saying, developers?

May as well go ahead and make it so the DDO world is flat too. Oh wait...it is.

[Strakeln]

IMO, it should be entirely based on the balance skill, which should be able to be modified by either the dex or str score. But I'm no PnP rules junkie, I'm just flying by the seat of my pants, spouting off what feels right for the game.

[donfilibuster]

The move action would be pressing some button like jump, the thing is that you are somewhat able to do more than just lay flat like rolling aside or swinging the weapon at a penalty.
So if you are being pummeled and can only smash the attack button like crazy you'll end up missing more than 2 of the real seconds before realizing you have to press jump to stand.
As for the chance of staying down, the chance of attack of opportunity was supposedly more damaging that fighting while prone, hence spending an action to stand up was not trivial.
Makes sense that the ddo version makes you stay down to get that extra damage but feels more... dunno, computarized, than if you had to think it by yourself.
After all it's one of the strenghts of ddo's system that you have to think your moves swiftly beyond smashing the monster.

[Kromize]

After all it's one of the strenghts of ddo's system that you have to think your moves swiftly beyond smashing the monster.

Lies. Unless it's a rusty, or air elemental, they're all the same. Just click and hold...and wait till one of you dies. (:

Unless your in one of the more creative quests, like The Pit or ...umm.../sigh.

Anyways, back to the main point of the knockdown effects being reversed in this game. I was never talking about rolling on the ground or anything stupid like that, I was talking about my character having a balance so high I could walk on the very atoms that make up air, yet always being knocked down, and getting up right away. It makes no sense whatsoever, and needs to be fixed. I don't care if it's the way PnP did it, PnP is broke. Make this game all it can be, and burn the PnP.

[Letrii]

Lies. Unless it's a rusty, or air elemental, they're all the same. Just click and hold...and wait till one of you dies. (:

Unless your in one of the more creative quests, like The Pit or ...umm.../sigh.

Anyways, back to the main point of the knockdown effects being reversed in this game. I was never talking about rolling on the ground or anything stupid like that, I was talking about my character having a balance so high I could walk on the very atoms that make up air, yet always being knocked down, and getting up right away. It makes no sense whatsoever, and needs to be fixed. I don't care if it's the way PnP did it, PnP is broke. Make this game all it can be, and burn the PnP.

PnP is far from broken. Balance has nothing to do with someone slamming you to ground or dodging out of their way. That is what Str and Dex checks are for.

[Mylon]

Being defenseless on the ground is silly. In DDO, you can still attack while prone. Or cast spells. Or do a number of things.

[Kromize]

PnP is far from broken. Balance has nothing to do with someone slamming you to ground or dodging out of their way. That is what Str and Dex checks are for.

If their is a scenario where they slam you to the ground, then by all means use a strength check or dex check to dodge, or overpower them. But when a dog tries to jump up on you and push you down, your going to try and keep your balance while pushing them away. Or when a giant stomps on the ground, it's supposed to knock you down from shaking you and the ground, thus, unbalance you, that's why you use a balance check.

Because, if you lose your balance you are going to ____. Right?

Understand yet? PnP is broken, old, out of date.

[Visty]

If their is a scenario where they slam you to the ground, then by all means use a strength check or dex check to dodge, or overpower them. But when a dog tries to jump up on you and push you down, your going to try and keep your balance while pushing them away. Or when a giant stomps on the ground, it's supposed to knock you down from shaking you and the ground, thus, unbalance you, that's why you use a balance check.

Because, if you lose your balance you are going to ____. Right?

Understand yet? PnP is broken, old, out of date.

if a dog jumps on you, no balance of the universe will help you. you need strengt to withstand that
on the giant stomp i may agree, but for a hound balance is silly

[Kromize]

if a dog jumps on you, no balance of the universe will help you. you need strengt to withstand that

Your really honestly believe that? The concept of balancing, the way I see it, is the use of ones strength and dexterity to stay on your feet when some outside force threatens to push you from your current location.

If a dog jumps on you, just using strength alone will only accomplish one thing, pushing the dog away, and still falling down, because for every force you exert, you receive an equal and opposite force. For example, doing a push up, you push the ground, thus, get an equal and opposite reaction from that which pushes your body up. So, if you were to push, you would get an equal and opposite reacting that you push you back, and without proper balance, you would fall.

I think you are underestimating just how important balance is, overall. Without balance, one cannot possible stand.